LOTS OF PREMIER LEAGUE

[WuDu]

1 hour ago, Livertool said:

Yeah, really bad job. In 30 years league transformed from hooligan show to most followed and successful league. Can't say it is failure.

 

I think you can have a family friendly atmosphere without hools going nuts without having to sell out to Arab oil states. In Germany you'll have that in the Bundesliga and the hools can go crazy somewhere in the 3. Liga in East Germany. Win-win for everyone involved.

1 hour ago, Livertool said:

And what good has it brought besides ownership stayed at clubs? Success in cl long gone, one team wins every year, promotion don't bring nuff money to table that Schalke could stay at buli... 

Yeah because Man United, Arsenal and Tottenham have been such a terror in the UCL over the past few years! Schalke? You have to be kidding me, this club has severe issues. A team like Union however is playing UCL next season. I'm not saying the Buli doesn't have issues, however I'd compare Bayern's dominance with Juve in the 2010s or Lyon in the 2000s.

1 hour ago, Livertool said:

Players here don't get the visibilty and attention so there is no competition of possible buyers and therefore even if we got good player he has to be sold with peanuts or end up with nothing. And when we got just peanuts it impossible to improve our league. There should be some auto clause in every contract that some portion of every transfer fee goes backwards to all previous team. Even if it would be just tiny portion still better than nothing. Probably biggest transfer fee that Veikkausliiga team has got and how much value was lost.

 You had Morales for 1,5 years, it's not like you brought him up from the youth ranks. Teams who do that get these payments. But yeah, Finland is a pretty shitty location to develop football talent, but having the NHL pipeline is more than OK, I guess.

My point is, if you want that oil money, you have to develop players. Look at who came through the Red Bull system over the years: Sadio Mane, Keita, Haaland, Adeyemi, Upamecano, Szoboszlai, Aaronson...And these are just the most prominent ones.

1 hour ago, Livertool said:

US have killed their sports with closed leagues but i would like to see some budget caps here too. How to implement between so many countries and leagues is another story.

I'm not watching US-sports anymore, I stopped when they started kneeling for overdosing criminals. However you cannot deny that the level of competition is much higher. 

 

[Livertool]

1 hour ago, WuDu said:

think you can have a family friendly atmosphere without hools going nuts without having to sell out to Arab oil states

Arabs had nothing to do with rise of premier league. Something to watch if you are interested: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p09mqv7k 

1 hour ago, WuDu said:

Schalke? You have to be kidding me, this club has severe issues

Sure but 100-200M of promotion money that championship team gets for making pl would have given smurfs better chance of surviving? Don't know what amounts are in buli but i doubt nowhere near or it was poorly used if best signing was loaned Uronen 😬 

1 hour ago, WuDu said:

Finland is a pretty shitty location to develop football talent

True. Just for weather you have big advantage not to mention finances and player base.

1 hour ago, WuDu said:

My point is, if you want that oil money, you have to develop players. Look at who came through the Red Bull system over the years: Sadio Mane, Keita, Haaland, Adeyemi, Upamecano, Szoboszlai, Aaronson...

Nope. Route never goes straight to oil money but first to other nordic league or equivalent and so on until you reach team that play some european league where you can rise attention. Even Haaland didn't get shortcut when he was recommended by OG to ManU in 2018 only for 4M. 

1 hour ago, WuDu said:

However you cannot deny that the level of competition is much higher. 

Is it? Teams giving up at half season selling and trading best players when nothing to play for without fear of relegation.

[WuDu]

7 hours ago, Livertool said:

Arabs had nothing to do with rise of premier league. Something to watch if you are interested: https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p09mqv7k 

OK, if I find a source, I might even watch it.

7 hours ago, Livertool said:

Sure but 100-200M of promotion money that championship team gets for making pl would have given smurfs better chance of surviving? Don't know what amounts are in buli but i doubt nowhere near or it was poorly used if best signing was loaned Uronen 😬 

What is that? Sanna Marin-style accounting? Isn't that the TV money every EPL team receives? So where is the advantage? 

8 hours ago, Livertool said:

Nope. Route never goes straight to oil money but first to other nordic league or equivalent and so on until you reach team that play some european league where you can rise attention. Even Haaland didn't get shortcut when he was recommended by OG to ManU in 2018 only for 4M. 

Sure, going to the sugar daddies isn't the direct way, however don't forget the trickle down effect. Stuttgart received 18 M from the Wolves for Kalajdzic and now bought Guirassy from Rennes for 9 M, which is close to their record. So Rennes profits from EPL money without selling directly.

However to participate here, you need to find and develop talent. Besides, Eliteserien managed to sell Obi Mikel and Fofana to Chelsea and Allsvenskan sent Alex Isak to the BVB. I just checked, the top transfers out of the Veikkausliiga are Pukki to the smurfs and Pohjanpalo to Leverkusen.

So unless Mr Nokia or Mr Finncrisp decide to invest in Finnish football, it's no oil money for you!

8 hours ago, Livertool said:

Is it? Teams giving up at half season selling and trading best players when nothing to play for without fear of relegation.

I'm not going to defend the US leagues. In the past, I attended two NBA games in person and the experience was nice, but I'm very likely not doing it again. But here's my point, due to the salary cap you always have some kind of equality amongst the teams. That's severely missing in European football.

[Livertool]

55 minutes ago, WuDu said:

What is that? Sanna Marin-style accounting? Isn't that the TV money every EPL team receives? So where is the advantage? 

To get fair share of pot in order to have fighting chance against other teams if money is used wisely. No dough no glory is the state of modern football, that is just fact whether we like it or not, so if league doesn't give any and you deny foreign investors then chances of making is slim to none unless you hit jp with some player.

Mentioned Marin? Ok. Apparently her alleged new boyfriend (or should we say boytoy) is sex criminal. LOOOOL 🤣 

https://www.brusselstimes.com/belgium/566623/deliberate-gossip-campaign-sexual-offences-complaint-filed-against-vooruit-leader-rousseau

1 hour ago, WuDu said:

So unless Mr Nokia or Mr Finncrisp decide to invest in Finnish football, it's no oil money for you!

That would be financial suicide so yeah, no oil money expected. Maybe some team lucks out on some euro cup with some individual player performing exceptional well and gets attention that way (like flop of the century Mudryk) but even in that case i don't see straight path to oil money.

1 hour ago, WuDu said:

That's severely missing in European football.

Sure and i would be open for some financial restrictions to even the teams but i choose real competition over closed league anyday.

[GR1ZZL3R]

17 hours ago, WuDu said:

19 hours ago, GR1ZZL3R said:

I've said it before and will say it again, if every team in Europe were owned by oil billionaires there's still only one team that can win the Champions League. The obvious example is the NFL in America, they're all rich but only one wins the Superbowl.

 

17 hours ago, WuDu said:

In the NFL there's a hard salary cap for every team. There are still differences but still, in principle, every team has the same money to spend.    

   Excuse me but every team being owned by billionaires or every team having the same money to spend equates to the same thing but said in a different way. The outcome in both cases can only lead to the same thing, only one team can win the competition. 

17 hours ago, WuDu said:

I've just lost a few brain cells reading that. I think you've now surpassed the Stub as the regular commuity member with the dumbest posts!

   No wonder he's losing brain cells trying to come up with different ways to argue against a point but ending up agreeing with it. 

 

 

[cris1285]

Unfortunately, seems like it became a troll thread now.

Football in general dies because of the huge money involved. It was crazy already and is even worse since the Arabs because they think they can buy everything and everybody, UEFA and FIFA involved. Smelly as fk. Look, PSG and City can buy anyone, prizes in the sky, don't matter. The cheating they are allowed to do is disgusting. Barcelona? Absolutely not the same, but also cancer in the sport of buying a full team. From what money? That's what none knows! The quality is usually better than in the 90s, sure, but some of the last few seasons were not top football, because Qatar liked the winter WC and Covid (or rather the federations pushing for finishing the season, starting the next, going to EC and starting again...) messed up the schedule. I don't like the way where football is heading, and I can't get it how anyone would like... 

Comparing NFL to European football is mad 😄 As Wudu explained there is a cap, doesn't matter if the owner is a billionaire or not, you can't spend more than the cap allowed. Also, there is a system to pick up young guys and build up a good team. IMO better than buying a good team. And I don't even wanna get into the topic of how those usually 60+ Americans got their money and how the Arabs, and how many people were threatened, sentenced, or killed on the way. 

From my perspective, I don't care if any of these cheaters win something big once in a while, but there is no way they should be celebrated.  

[GR1ZZL3R]

38 minutes ago, cris1285 said:

Unfortunately, seems like it became a troll thread now.

   I totally agree.

39 minutes ago, cris1285 said:

Comparing NFL to European football is mad 😄 As Wudu explained there is a cap, doesn't matter if the owner is a billionaire or not, you can't spend more than the cap allowed. 

   There is a cap so all teams are equal with the same spending power. If they are all owned by billionaires then they are all still equal, through unlimited spending power. Different methods, same results. And in any case WuDu doesn't explain, he browbeats anyone not lined up with his way of thinking into submission. I've said it before, he won't have a rational discussion, you do, but it's not worth my time and effort so I am actually going to submit. Congratulations to wuDu, he'll eventually get what he wants by driving everyone away.😭

[Livertool]

2 hours ago, cris1285 said:

seems like it became a troll thread now.

At least one thing we agree 😄

How many facts can you get wrong in your post? From

2 hours ago, cris1285 said:

Arabs because they think they can buy everything and everybody

when footballers have free will to move to any club they choose while US teams own their players 

or

2 hours ago, cris1285 said:

Wudu explained there is a cap

2 hours ago, cris1285 said:

 

which is not comparable to football for many reasons including that is just salary cap and US leagues got no competition so they can use that exclusivity etc.

I guess you just want arque for fun of it which is funny cause i don't think football world is perfect as it stands and some financial restrictions should be in order, VAR should be kicked where it came from aka Stu's a-hole, too much politics and moral posing to the point it takes focus from play itself to mention few. But still, players and matches at their best has not ever been better than these days so not all bad.

[cris1285]

Which facts are wrong? Corruption, cheating, US major league caps to keep the leagues interesting and FAIR? Curious...

The only opinion one can argue is that football dies. But even you, @Livertoollisted most of the problems, and I think they are pretty bad. It's a corrupt business now, led by oil monkeys. 

And I don't know how the quality could be called better than ever. Should be, thanks to today's technology, meds, training, etc, but it is not. The best ECs and WCs were the ones around 2000, and I don't even remember the last ones. Talking about club football, what about the last 5 CL finals? All of them were boring as hell, except for one all were 1-0 and the one was 2-0 but literally over after the 1st minute 😄 442 is a top soccer site (magazine) and had a list of the best CL matches last October. Interestingly, I didn't find many recent ones in the top 25, and only one in the top 10, which was a comeback, probably that's the sole reason being listed as high. Have a look if have bad memory: The 25 best Champions League games of all time: 10-1 - RANKED! The 25 best Champions League games of all time | FourFourTwo

Also, maybe except for De Bruyne, I don't know any player who plays decent in most of the important matches. None. Because there are not enough world-class players, and they are dead tired and injured, because money takes over the game. 

[WuDu]

2 hours ago, Livertool said:

which is not comparable to football for many reasons including that is just salary cap and US leagues got no competition so they can use that exclusivity etc.

I mean, the Champions' League also has that exclusivity and UEFA is also trying to implement their version of a salary cap with FFP, however they're so corrupt, that they don't even enforce it. 

3 hours ago, Livertool said:

when footballers have free will to move to any club they choose while US teams own their players 

Alright Mr Kaepernick, but the players in the US sign contracts with the respective leagues (I believe). No one forces them to sign with the Lakers or the Nuggets, they can also play in Europe.

6 minutes ago, cris1285 said:

The only opinion one can argue is that football dies. But even you, @Livertoollisted most of the problems, and I think they are pretty bad. It's a corrupt business now, led by oil monkeys. 

This sums it up perfectly.

[Livertool]

3 hours ago, cris1285 said:

US major league caps to keep the leagues interesting and FAIR?

Like said already, to me it ain't that interesting when some teams give up half way season when nothing to play for and other teams get to keep best players cause they own them and bend salary caps with making 15 year contracts. With money they can also get rid off high wage players by buying them out of contract so big bucks matter there too and not equal to all. They got their loopholes too and it is not as simple as "fair to all"

Like said already too, Us is in position to do so when they can make any deals they want cause there ain't no substitute for NHL, NBA or NFL if player wants to play against best players with highest wage. @wudu suggested Europe as an option. Right 😂 KHL managed to lure some russian players to choose yheir league over NHL but that is it.

Making such cap deals between 20 or even 5 major football leagues in Europe gets much more tricky. Even if they would get some agreement of salary cap (and transfer fees too) it would have to be very high to protect players not heading outside Europe. Like we have seen already some players follow money to China, S-A and Usa so do we want to increase that movement with lowering our competitivity? We might find ourselves in situation after decade or two that top football is played between al hijab vs al oil, sounds good?

3 hours ago, cris1285 said:

led by oil monkeys

Highest wages paid:

https://fbref.com/en/comps/Big5/wages/Big-5-European-Leagues-Wages 

Besides PSG clear at top (which i don't care at all what they pay to primadonnas when i don't follow french league and they drop always early from cl) there other lots of others than arab funded clubs including your fav Real and Bayern 😉 Sure lots of pl teams in there but they got lot of tv-money to use.

There are too many matches per year but that is on Fifa, Uefa and national football associations. What comes to individual matches being boring got lot to do with tactics. Shitty-Pool matches are great 9 times out of 10, if Tuchel or Ancelotti prefers parking bus with teams worth of hundreds of millions then it is on them.

 

 

Edited June 23, 2023 by Livertool

[cris1285]

That site (which I don't even know and am not sure is valid) shows only wages, it's only a slice of the story. Also, City and PSG are known for cheating with these numbers, right? 

Anyway, I feel dissatisfied that I come up with results, facts, stats, and objective shits, and your answer is that you don't like it. 😅

48 minutes ago, Livertool said:

to me it ain't that interesting

 

49 minutes ago, Livertool said:

if Tuchel or Ancelotti prefers parking bus with teams worth of hundreds of millions then it is on them.

 

[Livertool]

9 hours ago, cris1285 said:

That site (which I don't even know and am not sure is valid

You clearly have internet connection so use it and you shall find out that thou wages are not exact science cause teams don't put out contracts and they contain different ways of getting paid with bonuses etc and those numbers might not be spot on but multiple sources giving similar information makes it believable. Unless you trust your own gut feeling better?

9 hours ago, cris1285 said:

City and PSG are known for cheating with these numbers, right? 

Might be, might not, same as every other team like Juventus losing points this season for scamming.

9 hours ago, cris1285 said:

that I come up with results, facts, stats, and objective shits

Can you post them again? Stubbe must have deleted posts again cause all i find in your posts is your opinions and one link to column of writer's opinion of best cl matches. Agree with some of them but facts they ain't 😉

If you are shocked of City not being biggest wage spender among PSG, this fact might stun you too that City actually made money on transfer market this season and with price money won from treble they made very healthy profit, again. Something that can't be said for many teams. 

[cris1285]

6 hours ago, Livertool said:

You clearly have internet connection so use it and you shall find out that thou wages are not exact science cause teams don't put out contracts and they contain different ways of getting paid with bonuses etc and those numbers might not be spot on but multiple sources giving similar information makes it believable. Unless you trust your own gut feeling better?

Might be, might not, same as every other team like Juventus losing points this season for scamming.

Can you post them again? Stubbe must have deleted posts again cause all i find in your posts is your opinions and one link to column of writer's opinion of best cl matches. Agree with some of them but facts they ain't 😉

If you are shocked of City not being biggest wage spender among PSG, this fact might stun you too that City actually made money on transfer market this season and with price money won from treble they made very healthy profit, again. Something that can't be said for many teams. 

Well, I struggle with the internet due to storms 😄

You clearly have an internet connection to re-read the facts I stated, but I help you out this last time. 

- Corruption. Fact.

- Cheating. Fact.

- Leagues are fairer with caps. Fact.

- Arabs coming into European football with their dirty money and doing whatever they want. Fact.

- The best national tourneys were about two decades ago (check the goal/match ratios for instance). Fact.

- Results from the CL finals. Fact. 

- List from one of the best crew out there. Doesn't matter if the list is based on a survey, on a team's or a single author's opinion, but much more objective than you or me. Not fact, but nearer to it than any of us here. 

I can accept the stubborn "suspension of disbelief" from @GR1ZZL3R because he is a Citizen after all, but I can't accept that you can't read. 

Also, the last two sentences are a huge own goal, but what to expect from a Finn (from the 13th min.:

"City actually made money on transfer market this season" - Ok... Congratulations, first time in ages? Feel free to check transfermarkt.de (Transfer income and expenditure | Transfermarkt) for the last 15 years, or read this one (for you with picture: The Top 25 Highest Spending Clubs In The Last Decade - SPORTbible), or this one from two years ago (30 European clubs with the the biggest net spend in last five years - ranked (90min.com). Talking about facts. 

If you wanna bully me and my opinion, at least don't deny it with your subjective brainstorming and get your facts straight first, otherwise I feel like I talk to a support agent... 

[Livertool]

2 hours ago, cris1285 said:

Corruption. Fact.

- Cheating. Fact.

Where, football overall? Yes, first known case apparently back in 1841 and quite funny story 😄

https://www.fourfourtwo.com/features/a-brief-history-cheating-footballs-dirtiest-tricks-ever

This early case of foul play in football occurred more than 20 years before the Laws of the Game were properly drawn up, and is arguably the first ever instance of cheating in the game. It was Christmas Day 1841, and brilliantly named Lancashire pub teams The Body Guards and The Fearnoughts were playing a 12-a-side match by their own rules for a cash prize and barrel of gin. During a goalless struggle, a tired Body Guards player ushered a spectator onto the field to take a kick for him. The umpire decided this was “foul play according to the rules agreed by each party” and awarded the match – and the gin – to the Fearnoughts. 

Or do you mean Fifa/Uefa? Yes since 1989 

https://www.football-stadiums.co.uk/articles/corruption-in-football/

2 hours ago, cris1285 said:

Leagues are fairer with caps. Fact

Something being "fairer" ain't fact but opinion. Something that work somehow in US don't mean it work here. Do you want UEFA to make it really fair and set wage cap to half million per year to be fair for Finnish teams too?

2 hours ago, cris1285 said:

Arabs coming into European football with their dirty money and doing whatever they want. Fact.

No conviction (yet) for them playing with their own rules.

2 hours ago, cris1285 said:

The best national tourneys were about two decades ago (check the goal/match ratios for instance). Fact.

Once again opinion. If goals per match would be definition of best football then finnish 4th division would be world class league.

2 hours ago, cris1285 said:

Results from the CL finals. Fact. 

Don't understand what you mean, goals again? If so, how come Qatar final was shit and nothing to remember?

2 hours ago, cris1285 said:

Talking about facts. 

Never denied that City haven't used lot of money or that they wouldn't have advantage over most clubs. I just felt that you didn't know that they made profit and educated you a bit so you know better than "arabs do what they want" when in fact some things are done well.

 

Edited June 24, 2023 by Livertool

[cris1285]

Ok, at least it's clear that you are trolling 😅

1 hour ago, Livertool said:

Never denied that City haven't used lot of money or that they wouldn't have advantage over most clubs. I just felt that you didn't know that they made profit and educated you a bit so you know better than "arabs do what they want" when in fact some things are done well.

Let me educate you! Did you know that profits come from different sources, like sponsors (Arab money)? Eventually, they pump as much money as they want into City, so they do what they want. Also, did you know that clubs from the Premier League literally can't go bankrupt because they make a nice profit from broadcasting? And also, did you know that most of the best teams make a profit? 😂

Other than that, City is in a massive minus in the last decade on transfers as shown in the picture I linked to you. 

But hey, you are right in everything you say, even if your argument is your opinion alone. High-five! 

[WuDu]

1 hour ago, Livertool said:

Never denied that City haven't used lot of money or that they wouldn't have advantage over most clubs. I just felt that you didn't know that they made profit and educated you a bit so you know better than "arabs do what they want" when in fact some things are done well.

 

Shitty net spent 1,5 B Euro over the past 15 or so years in transfer fees alone. Last summer, they show a transfer plus of 10 M Euro. LTBGQPHIVivertool: "I'm educating you that City made a profit!"

I'm contending that if you account for Haaland's signing fee and Mino's Rafaela's share, they're waaaay back in the negative again

Ruben Neves to Saudi-Arabia as well; 40 M Euro. 

 

[Livertool]

42 minutes ago, cris1285 said:

But hey, you are right in everything you say

Thank you.

32 minutes ago, WuDu said:

Shitty net spent 1,5 B Euro over the past 15 or so years in transfer fees alone. Last summer, they show a transfer plus of 10 M Euro.

Did i mention anywhere last 15 years? No, talked about this season 😉

But if we want talk about those 15 years, then we must include incomes too to get to bottom of things if that investment has payed off or did they just throw away 1,5 B.

For treble this season alone they got over 300M just as price money, not mention price money for multiple titles along the way.

https://www.dailystar.co.uk/sport/football/man-city-biggest-transfer-budget-30247023?int_source=amp_continue_reading&int_medium=amp&int_campaign=continue_reading_button#amp-readmore-target

But i give up, at least i tried. If some wish to remain ignorant rather than learn then so be it, all good to me 😄

[cris1285]

Talking about one season only (because it fits the narrative) when they built the team for more than a decade 😂

Teach the community more about ignorance 😝

I am mistaken, it's not a troll thread, it's a legendary thread now! 

[Livertool]

"arabs do what they want with their oil money" but couldn't hold on to Gundogan who got better deal from Barca 😂 

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/65980397

Havertz to Arse with 70M??? 

 

[cris1285]

Barca is the same cancer as I said, unlimited budget but they have no money... Also, Gundogan wanted to leave for a couple of years, right? He is getting old, who knows how many years he has in him, his last chance to move to a different country and league, and the perfect timing with a treble behind. Havertz has done nothing since the CL final two years ago, why arabs would want him to stay?

So who said Arabs (or actually anyone with common sense) want them? 😅You can come up with better!

[Livertool]

44 minutes ago, cris1285 said:

You can come up with better!

Always room to improve but honestly you couldn't do worse 😝 

Barca are struggling with their finance yet arabs can't compete.

47 minutes ago, cris1285 said:

Havertz has done nothing since the CL final two years ago,

He has been let down pretty much his whole pl era so really don't understand why Arse bought him while they are well packed already with attacking players. Not to mention for 70 M. Nuts!

50 minutes ago, cris1285 said:

why arabs would want him to stay?

Do you actually follow football? Abramovits left long time ago (if you consider him arab) 

[cris1285]

You see, you confuse me with your BS? Why you brought Havertz in? 😂 

Gundogan will not get any better, he leaves at his peak. That is the best deal from City. Anyone with common sense would sell him now, so they did not even wanna compete w Barca. 

[Livertool]

22 hours ago, cris1285 said:

Why you brought Havertz in? 😂 

Cause this mainly pl thread and sugar daddy conversation ain't going anywhere no need to use more time on it.

22 hours ago, cris1285 said:

Anyone with common sense would sell him now,

He ran out of contract so keep on 

and let me know when you reach the bottom and we can talk again...

Edited June 26, 2023 by Livertool

[cris1285]

That doesn't change anything, so anyone with common sense would let him go now considering his age for instance. They offered him only 1+1 years afaik, but he wanted a longer contract, he wanted to discover new top leagues until he can. Just for you to remember, that is your argument? 😅

On 6/25/2023 at 8:22 AM, Livertool said:

"arabs do what they want with their oil money" but couldn't hold on to Gundogan who got better deal from Barca 😂 

 

On topic: Gvardiol is 99% sure for City, and the fee will likely break the world record for defenders. Bidding for Rice also going on, Arsenal's 75+15 million bid is rejected, and City is preparing its bid as per Romano. Would be hilarious (but not unusual for City) to spend over 250 - 300 million (Kovacic included) in the first three weeks of the summer break. But hey, they can't hold on to 32 years old Gundogan... Okay. 😂

Related, but not totally: Modic extended and doesn't go to SA. Respect to the old guy!