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Merenitsu
Rank 24
Rank 24

@Argevolen  It annoys me that the players play very fast Rofl. So what? Ban everyone? Smile The game provides for a certain time, like in chess. Your right to use it or not Smile


@Argevolen wrote:

@Andy-Unibet wrote:

Hi @FreedoM,

How we would deal with players that ignore any warnings we give them would obviously be on a case by case basis and I hope we don't have to do it with any of the players that received this email or any other we send in future. Having said that, we also have to consider whether it is worth allowing a single player back when they've made the playing experience of many other customer worse in the past. We don't take account blocking/closure lightly and it is considered a last resort. 

As far as I'm concerned, if a player received a one month block and then came back and continued to persistently rathole then a 3 month, 6 month or 1 year block is not going to change their behaviour. The email sent out should be the trigger for these players to reflect on their behavior and decide if they want to change it or not.

Automatic ratholing prevention is on the development roadmap and will hopefully eliminate this issue in the future.


Slowroll is also unethical behaviour. Etiquette and poker are not compatible at all! We are not in an English club for aristocrats.
Many annoying things are part of the players' strategy.  Constant use of timebank on the bubble in a tournament is also unethical behaviour.
Banning player accounts for one thing and turning a blind eye to everything else is also unethical behaviour.




 

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Pionrj
Rank 10
Rank 10

 

IMG_20210317_194246.jpg

@Stubbe-Unibet Here's one of those guys. Timed out with out time bank three times in and never sat out. 

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WuDu
Rank 23
Rank 23

@Argevolen wrote:


Many annoying things are part of the players' strategy.  Constant use of timebank on the bubble in a tournament is also unethical behaviour.



 

@Argevolen, if it were only on the bubble...Veryangry To me this is even more annoying.

@Merenitsu on 24 hour suicide watch if Unibet finally gets their stuff together and deals with this as well.

We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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Pickleman
Rank 10
Rank 10

@FreedoM wrote:

Interestingly,ratholing confers no specific advantage to the ratholer and no disadvantage to the other players at the table. In other words, there is no decent reason why ratholing should be considered unethical.

 Actually ratholing does confer an advantage to the ratholer. If we consider that there are two general ways of making a profit in poker 1) having value and betting it, 2) having a worse hand but bluffing it - the second of these is massively reduced when the opponent is short stacked. In fact, it's relatively straightforward to devise a strategy of "fold most things, but when you have enough equity, commit" which works for a short stack but for which there is too much jeopardy when deep stacked. Rolf Slotboom wrote an entire book on it for Omaha! It's basically an implied odds/reverse implied odds issue.

So it's not just an ethical dimension, it's actually bad for the game to let shortstackers (consistently) get away with it. For sure, sites allow short stacks so that less-rolled players can take a shot, or play more comfortably at higher stakes at least. Taking steps to mitigate ratholing is a way to reduce money going out of the player pool to what is essentially a cookie-cutter way of making money for some types of player.

 

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Argevolen
Rank 16
Rank 16

ratholing.jpg

This letter came to me right after a short lunchtime session.
I played for about an hour.
I played a lot of tables
I play the classic MSS strategy. I don't leave the table if I win 5-10-20bb.
Maybe I don't understand something...but my actions don't seem like ratholing to me.
However, one session of 1 hour, was quite enough to send me this email!
I have no hand history and it's hard for me to understand what I did wrong.
Now I have to sit at all the tables for 2-3 hours at a time. Even if there are only two of us and my opponent is in the sit-out. Even if I want to take my mind off poker for 15-20 minutes. Even if my stack is 500bb.

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Stubbe-Unibet
Unibet Poker Expert
Unibet Poker Expert

@Argevolen, let me try and explain the reason behind your warning. It should hopefully provide some context to everyone else as well.

The warning wasn't issued based on your session today. It's based on data for a long period of time.

The main reason behind your warning is simply:
- You leave the table for then to return to the very same table in less than a minute
- You leave with less than 100bb and return with 50bb (on some occasions you of course leave with more than 100bb)
- You do this many hundred times a month

If you want to avoid getting a second warning/getting poker blocked, you should quite simply stop leaving tables for then to return to same table with 50bb, and you definitely shouldn't do it hundreds of times a month.
If you leave with 75-150bb and return with 50bb, and you do it at such a high rate, you will run into problems, and this won't be possible either, when we implement the technical prevention, so you might as well get used to it Smile

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WuDu
Rank 23
Rank 23

@Stubbe-Unibet wrote:

@Argevolen
- You leave the table for then to return to the very same table in less than a minute
- You leave with less than 100bb and return with 50bb (on some occasions you of course leave with more than 100bb)
- You do this many hundred times a month



 

Maxyim, I'm demanding answers! Wow

We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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Argevolen
Rank 16
Rank 16

@Stubbe-Unibet wrote:

The main reason behind your warning is simply:
- You leave the table for then to return to the very same table in less than a minute

I understand this claim. I will change my style of play.

- You leave with less than 100bb and return with 50bb (on some occasions you of course leave with more than 100bb)

 Okay. I will not leave the table if I have less than 150bb

- You do this many hundred times a month

I play six tables. About 20 days a month. About 30-50k hands a month.
Sometimes it's 2-3-4 short sessions a day.
I have been playing for many years and can easily predict what can happen to me during this period (1 month).

3-4 times my computer will freeze up.
5-10 times I will have connection problems
1-2 times (sometimes 10-15 times) connection problems will be from Unibet side
20-30 times I will have to close the tables for 5-10 min to solve my domestic issues.
About 100 times I will leave the table because there is one player left or players went to sit-outs. (when there is little traffic this happens very often)
20-30 times -Tilt (you know those lucky "any two" all-in guys)
I sometimes close the table for 2-3 minutes to calm down a bit.
5-10 times missclick
Considering that I play 6 tables...I think that's enough to consider me a terrible ratholer. That's hundreds of instances of unethical behavior.

 

 

 

 

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Argevolen
Rank 16
Rank 16

@WuDu wrote:

@Stubbe-Unibet wrote:

@Argevolen
- You leave the table for then to return to the very same table in less than a minute
- You leave with less than 100bb and return with 50bb (on some occasions you of course leave with more than 100bb)
- You do this many hundred times a month



 

Maxyim, I'm demanding answers! Wow

 


Maxim is more familiar to meHappy

Specially for you @WuDu Wink

I wrote that I play the classic MSS (50bb)
This strategy implies that we leave the table when we have more than 90bb
In the post above I described for what other reasons I might leave the tables.

 

 

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Bl3ss3dMMA
Rank 10
Rank 10

@Argevolen wrote:

I wrote that I play the classic MSS (50bb)
This strategy implies that we leave the table when we have more than 90bb

you wrote twice in this thread you play MSS and still claiming not ratholing LMAO!!!

tenor

let me be clear: SSS/MSS strategies are the definition of ratholing!!!

SaneUnrulyAsianlion-size_restricted


 

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