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Pionrj
Rank 10
Rank 10

@Argevolen wrote:

@Andy-Unibet wrote:

Hi @FreedoM,

How we would deal with players that ignore any warnings we give them would obviously be on a case by case basis and I hope we don't have to do it with any of the players that received this email or any other we send in future. Having said that, we also have to consider whether it is worth allowing a single player back when they've made the playing experience of many other customer worse in the past. We don't take account blocking/closure lightly and it is considered a last resort. 

As far as I'm concerned, if a player received a one month block and then came back and continued to persistently rathole then a 3 month, 6 month or 1 year block is not going to change their behaviour. The email sent out should be the trigger for these players to reflect on their behavior and decide if they want to change it or not.

Automatic ratholing prevention is on the development roadmap and will hopefully eliminate this issue in the future.


Slowroll is also unethical behaviour. Etiquette and poker are not compatible at all! We are not in an English club for aristocrats.
Many annoying things are part of the players' strategy.  Constant use of timebank on the bubble in a tournament is also unethical behaviour.
Banning player accounts for one thing and turning a blind eye to everything else is also unethical behaviour.




Sounds like the Ratholing just hit you hard? Slowrolling or tanking might be annoying but widely used by MTT players on every server. Ratholing in other hand is blocked by majority of the Poker rooms. So I'd say that you have to come up with a better excuse.

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jerry
Rank 21
Rank 21

@Andy-Unibet   

Thx for saying that money is safe but closing the account would hit me hard sicne i like playing here...

Short sessions [or shots at higher stakes] when youre hit your goals [1-4BB] are considered ratholing [hit and run]? I mean i have 6 tables and won 4BB on them so i want to go home Tongue not wait to lose that profit. Is it unethical? I want to win, i dont want to give guys chance to get their money back tbh. I dont really care if someone hits me with a bad beat and leave, there will be other guys to get that money back. 

I really dont consider myself a ratholer. I had some rough sessions this year [earned already 3 double trouble tickets] with many recovering ones when every BB win counted as a miracle so probably few times i took the money from the table and then came back with 100bb. I dont like playing deep, especially when im down. I thought i can make that decision and in email their is this thing about Unibet understand that some players are feeling uneasy playing deep....

Anyway what are my options now? So im playing 6 tables now and i have big profit in 2 of them and i close them. So now i just dont come back to them to piss off system/players and only play the rest 4? Smile Would that be ok? Or just wait some orbits after double up?

Whats the timetable on automatic ratholing prevention?

the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist
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Stubbe-Unibet
Unibet Poker Expert
Unibet Poker Expert

@Argevolen wrote:

@Andy-Unibet wrote:

Hi @FreedoM,

How we would deal with players that ignore any warnings we give them would obviously be on a case by case basis and I hope we don't have to do it with any of the players that received this email or any other we send in future. Having said that, we also have to consider whether it is worth allowing a single player back when they've made the playing experience of many other customer worse in the past. We don't take account blocking/closure lightly and it is considered a last resort. 

As far as I'm concerned, if a player received a one month block and then came back and continued to persistently rathole then a 3 month, 6 month or 1 year block is not going to change their behaviour. The email sent out should be the trigger for these players to reflect on their behavior and decide if they want to change it or not.

Automatic ratholing prevention is on the development roadmap and will hopefully eliminate this issue in the future.


Slowroll is also unethical behaviour. Etiquette and poker are not compatible at all! We are not in an English club for aristocrats.
Many annoying things are part of the players' strategy.  Constant use of timebank on the bubble in a tournament is also unethical behaviour.
Banning player accounts for one thing and turning a blind eye to everything else is also unethical behaviour.


Use of timebank isn't unethical, unless we'd have unlimited timebank, which we don't. Stalling is part of the game, and the timebank is configured in such a way that there's a balance. However, if you were to use max time in every single hand across thousands of hands and tournaments (for no reason other than to try and piss off the other players), we'd probably take action as well and send you a warning. The two things just can't be compared; primarily because there're already measures in place against one and not the other Smile

That we shouldn't enforce one rule, because you deem other aspects equally important or annoying, that's just silly, especially when the comparison doesn't make any sense. 

If you rathole to an extreme extent, you're a real annoyance to the other players. This is what's key and why we take action. To call any preventive measures unethical, well, I think that speaks for itself really Smile

As Andy said, we're also working on the technical solution to prevent it.

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Stubbe-Unibet
Unibet Poker Expert
Unibet Poker Expert

@jerry wrote:

@Andy-Unibet   

Thx for saying that money is safe but closing the account would hit me hard sicne i like playing here...

Short sessions [or shots at higher stakes] when youre hit your goals [1-4BB] are considered ratholing [hit and run]? I mean i have 6 tables and won 4BB on them so i want to go home Tongue not wait to lose that profit. Is it unethical? I want to win, i dont want to give guys chance to get their money back tbh. I dont really care if someone hits me with a bad beat and leave, there will be other guys to get that money back. 


Short answer is yes.

But it's not black and white and we won't give you a guideline with figures - that'll come when the technical prevention is in place. If you're taking a shot at a higher stake once a week, or you just have a really short session and end the day with a tiny profit, that's perfectly fine.

What's not okay is consistently leaving for then to re-join the same table shortly after - we're not talking a couple times a day, but more (in most cases A LOT more). This one sentence should be a pretty good guideline on what not to do Smile

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psrquack
Rank 27
Rank 27

@jerry wrote:

 

 

Short sessions [or shots at higher stakes] when youre hit your goals [1-4BB] are considered ratholing [hit and run]?


I'm curious what is your goal with those 1-4 BB's. It seems too little reward comparing to risking 50BB's (when you sit in). I presume you accumulate those winnings but what is the next step?

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jerry
Rank 21
Rank 21

@psrquack wrote:

@jerry wrote:

 

 

Short sessions [or shots at higher stakes] when youre hit your goals [1-4BB] are considered ratholing [hit and run]?


I'm curious what is your goal with those 1-4 BB's. It seems too little reward comparing to risking 50BB's (when you sit in). I presume you accumulate those winnings but what is the next step?


Dont know if i get this right, maybe its other way around but 1BB=100bb  1bb=0,04e in 4nl

So yeah when im 12e up im usually good... 

the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist
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psrquack
Rank 27
Rank 27

@jerry wrote:


Dont know if i get this right, maybe its other way around but 1BB=100bb  1bb=0,04e in 4nl

So yeah when im 12e up im usually good... 


Thanks for explaining this, for me BB was big bet coming from the fixed limit poker times what is equal to 4 cent at NL4 tables, so winning 4 cent and sitting out was strange for me. So you triple up and then leave the table. Now I hopefully understand.

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Argevolen
Rank 16
Rank 16

@Pionrj wrote:



Sounds like the Ratholing just hit you hard? Slowrolling or tanking might be annoying but widely used by MTT players on every server. Ratholing in other hand is blocked by majority of the Poker rooms. So I'd say that you have to come up with a better excuse.


There is a huge difference between:
- The technical blocking of the possibility of ratholing
- The possibility of getting your account banned at any time if your actions are perceived as ratholing.
I don't know of any poker rooms that take this approach to dealing with the issue of rotolining. Perhaps you can tell me at least one?
I haven't received an email about ratholing. I would never specifically do something like that in a regular game.
But when I'm wagering cash tickets  my actions could easily be perceived as ratholing.
Such a solution brings me more risks and inconvenience than benefit.
If anyone likes it, no problem. But then don't complain...

 

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Pionrj
Rank 10
Rank 10

@Argevolen wrote:

@Pionrj wrote:



Sounds like the Ratholing just hit you hard? Slowrolling or tanking might be annoying but widely used by MTT players on every server. Ratholing in other hand is blocked by majority of the Poker rooms. So I'd say that you have to come up with a better excuse.


There is a huge difference between:
- The technical blocking of the possibility of ratholing
- The possibility of getting your account banned at any time if your actions are perceived as ratholing.
I don't know of any poker rooms that take this approach to dealing with the issue of rotolining. Perhaps you can tell me at least one?
I haven't received an email about ratholing. I would never specifically do something like that in a regular game.
But when I'm wagering cash tickets  my actions could easily be perceived as ratholing.
Such a solution brings me more risks and inconvenience than benefit.
If anyone likes it, no problem. But then don't complain...

 


I'm not sure, what is the question you wanted an answer? But just for example, GG&PartyPoker has it on their rules, that players who do this will be first warned then banned. UPoker uses CT, which doesn't let winning players to leave the table with their stacks before the time has gone. Timer is different on different tables but usually it's something between 10-30 minutes.

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Stubbe-Unibet
Unibet Poker Expert
Unibet Poker Expert

@Argevolen wrote:

@Pionrj wrote:



Sounds like the Ratholing just hit you hard? Slowrolling or tanking might be annoying but widely used by MTT players on every server. Ratholing in other hand is blocked by majority of the Poker rooms. So I'd say that you have to come up with a better excuse.


There is a huge difference between:
- The technical blocking of the possibility of ratholing
- The possibility of getting your account banned at any time if your actions are perceived as ratholing.
I don't know of any poker rooms that take this approach to dealing with the issue of rotolining. Perhaps you can tell me at least one?
I haven't received an email about ratholing. I would never specifically do something like that in a regular game.
But when I'm wagering cash tickets  my actions could easily be perceived as ratholing.
Such a solution brings me more risks and inconvenience than benefit.
If anyone likes it, no problem. But then don't complain...


Now you're just making your own theories which I don't think are based on anything said in this thread - please read what Andy and I posted earlier Smile

"- The possibility of getting your account banned at any time if your actions are perceived as ratholing."

You obviously don't just get banned from one day to the other, due to this. This has never happened and it hasn't been mentioned in this thread that it would. This thread is about warnings being sent. If you then choose to ignore this warning (possible there'll be a 2nd as well, depending on the circumstances for the individual), yes, you might find poker will be blocked for you.

Doing it with the occational cash game ticket won't result in a poker block or even a warning.

Your conclusion is your own opinion, and I know for a fact, based on actual data (survey and poker transaction), that it's simply wrong Smile

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