Poker release notes 3.23 (Banzai 2.0)

[fornicator99]

Some thoughts after playing a fair amount:

-  small sample of course but seems games are good, still beatable, despite me being on the wrong side of the flips . Didn't do the math, I'll do it at the end of the month, but I feel it's at least as good as before.

- yeah, you don't see the 400-600bb stacks anymore but personally, I don't really care as long as there are more recs and as long as recs like the new dynamic

- Carrying your stack between tables will only help regs, I'm not complaining if you do it but that's a fact

- anonymous tables  - seems a good idea for recs, you might want to consider it for other games too. All notes I had are useless now so good move.

- bottom line, it's all coming together beautifully, with some tweaks mentioned here an there  it'll be perfect.

[Tom Siddle]

5 hours ago, fornicator99 said:

Some thoughts after playing a fair amount:

-  small sample of course but seems games are good, still beatable, despite me being on the wrong side of the flips . Didn't do the math, I'll do it at the end of the month, but I feel it's at least as good as before.

- yeah, you don't see the 400-600bb stacks anymore but personally, I don't really care as long as there are more recs and as long as recs like the new dynamic

- Carrying your stack between tables will only help regs, I'm not complaining if you do it but that's a fact

- anonymous tables  - seems a good idea for recs, you might want to consider it for other games too. All notes I had are useless now so good move.

- bottom line, it's all coming together beautifully, with some tweaks mentioned here an there  it'll be perfect.

What is coming together beautifully?

The games break quicker, the rake is higher and the tables are much shorter stacked. It’s just that now all the avatars are wearing headbands.

The increase traffic is from better exposure it doesn’t mean the players are enjoying the game more

[fornicator99]

49 minutes ago, Tom Siddle said:

 it doesn’t mean the players are enjoying the game more

If I were to make an assumption, Banzai isn't the first option for recs who enjoy deep stack poker.
I understand your view but I don't really share your frustration. Personally, I like it more and, as I said, can't really say for sure atm, but it looks more profitable.  There are only things I care about: the game format to be sustainable and recs at the table. Looks about right to me.
 

[GR1ZZL3R]

3 hours ago, Tom Siddle said:

What is coming together beautifully?

The games break quicker, the rake is higher and the tables are much shorter stacked. It’s just that now all the avatars are wearing headbands.

The increase traffic is from better exposure it doesn’t mean the players are enjoying the game more

   I'm a rec that plays a little poker but I've played more Banzai over the last 6 days than any poker the rest of the month. It may be because I'm slightly winning so far, very small sample size, but I actually don't see the problems you're referring to. 

   This seemed a good time to start, only two players and small stacks.

 

   One of the players made Sensei after about 10 mins, but left fairly soon after, the table stayed open for the two and a half hours I was on it, though when I was up to 40 bb a sit out left me playing HU. He left but luckily I was only sat with the sit out for a few seconds and someone else joined.  The whole time new players kept joining as others left, no different from when I've played Banzai before, and most of the time the stacks were varied between 10 and 60-70, the last 10 or 15 mins one large stack, one medium, me, and 2 or 3 minimum to low. I'm enjoying playing (maybe whilst I'm winning) as this format gives me a definite target to aim at, either reaching black belt, Sensei or both, and I have no idea how long it will take, a few minutes yesterday (Sensei) quite a bit longer today (black belt.)

   To me the whole point of being short stacked is to spin it up, action all the way, and from what I've seen so far once the bigger stacks are reached it's very little different from playing on a normal table. Many recs don't want to play very deep going by the number of short stacks you see on normal cash tables, so I think this is ideal. As has been said a few times, it's been developed with mobile, recs and casino customers in mind, give it a fair chance.

   I'm enjoying the game far more. 

Edited December 22, 2022 by GR1ZZL3R

[Tom Siddle]

37 minutes ago, GR1ZZL3R said:

   I'm a rec that plays a little poker but I've played more Banzai over the last 6 days than any poker the rest of the month. It may be because I'm slightly winning so far, very small sample size, but I actually don't see the problems you're referring to. 

   This seemed a good time to start, only two players and small stacks.

 

   One of the players made Sensei after about 10 mins, but left fairly soon after, the table stayed open for the two and a half hours I was on it, though when I was up to 40 bb a sit out left me playing HU. He left but luckily I was only sat with the sit out for a few seconds and someone else joined.  The whole time new players kept joining as others left, no different from when I've played Banzai before, and most of the time the stacks were varied between 10 and 60-70, the last 10 or 15 mins one large stack, one medium, me, and 2 or 3 minimum to low. I'm enjoying playing (maybe whilst I'm winning) as this format gives me a definite target to aim at, either reaching black belt, Sensei or both, and I have no idea how long it will take, a few minutes yesterday (Sensei) quite a bit longer today (black belt.)

   To me the whole point of being short stacked is to spin it up, action all the way, and from what I've seen so far once the bigger stacks are reached it's very little different from playing on a normal table. Many recs don't want to play very deep going by the number of short stacks you see on normal cash tables, so I think this is ideal. As has been said a few times, it's been developed with mobile, recs and casino customers in mind, give it a fair chance.

   I'm enjoying the game far more. 

What stakes banzai are you playing? If it’s B1 then I don’t think there any issues and the game is better. People shell infinite buy ins on B1 so games don’t break and people spin up stacks a lot more and people don’t give a damn about rake 

[GR1ZZL3R]

4 hours ago, Tom Siddle said:

What stakes banzai are you playing? If it’s B1 then I don’t think there any issues and the game is better. People shell infinite buy ins on B1 so games don’t break and people spin up stacks a lot more and people don’t give a damn about rake 

Agreed.

I'm a rec, I'm not going to lob in multiple €5 at a time let alone €20, 🙂  but I've done 12 or 13 buy ins before making my stack finally stick, probably nothing really. 

 

[Stubbe-Unibet]

13 hours ago, GR1ZZL3R said:

Agreed.

I'm a rec, I'm not going to lob in multiple €5 at a time let alone €20, 🙂  but I've done 12 or 13 buy ins before making my stack finally stick, probably nothing really. 

 

Not all recs are created equally 😉

Of course NL1 is softer and people spew more in general. However, €20 isn't worth the same to everyone and there're obviously also players spewing at this stake. Yesterday there were players at NL20 losing 10, 20, 30 and 40 buyins while losing more than €2 per flop seen - think it's fair to say these were there for some fun, exactly like some NL1 players. 

[themonkeystyle]

Stubbe where it's nl 2 and nl 10 all players whant that and I ask in my first post why don't have how to change my table background ?

[Stubbe-Unibet]

30 minutes ago, themonkeystyle said:

Stubbe where it's nl 2 and nl 10 all players whant that and I ask in my first post why don't have how to change my table background ?

Think I already answered that earlier in the thread 😉

[Stubbe-Unibet]

In a parallel universe: new Banzai is dead at higher stakes. Never any decent sized stacks at the table.

Our reality:

 

 

[SShcherbyna]

2009. Rush Poker Will Kill The Cash Game! No one will play it!
2014. Spin n Go is a lottery, no profit is possible here. No one will play it!
2022. Banzai 2.0

3 hours ago, Stubbe-Unibet said:

new Banzai is dead at higher stakes. Never any decent sized stacks at the table.

I really think that Unibet is making a small revolution in poker right now. I never liked cash games. It is not interesting, there is no goal that you want to achieve. The whole table sits and waits for a player who will give at least some action.
But Banzai just makes you want to play. Talk about high rake, some inconvenience for regulars - not important as long as there are many people who just want to play this game for fun. Banzai 2.0 is similar to such a game.

[Groggy]

@Tom Siddle There are players on sky poker who make a living playing 10bb games with double the rake and most of those games play shallow. Games are mostly self regulating anyway. 20 banzai on here was tougher on average than 40 on sky because rake was 1% here Vs 5%. 

[Tom Siddle]

2 hours ago, Groggy said:

@Tom Siddle There are players on sky poker who make a living playing 10bb games with double the rake and most of those games play shallow. Games are mostly self regulating anyway. 20 banzai on here was tougher on average than 40 on sky because rake was 1% here Vs 5%. 

But regardless of what is capable to win why would you want to make a game that everyone enjoys more shorter stacked and shorter handed.
You could say people are enjoying the game more because the traffic is up, but the traffic is just up a lot because having banzai in the unibet poker header makes a massive difference.

The game is definitely a poorer experience for both reg and Rec now that games break quick and games are shorter stacked. 

If the game was kept the same and the rake went up I would have accepted it, and the traffic would be up a lot anyway due to banzai being out on header, so games still would have been better 
 

 

[Tom Siddle]

19 hours ago, Stubbe-Unibet said:

In a parallel universe: new Banzai is dead at higher stakes. Never any decent sized stacks at the table.

Our reality:

 

 

Does this really prove anything? Posting just 3 stacks at one moment in time when the game runs all week lol.

on average the stacks are just way lower as a result of game changes and more recs, I’ve accepted it really you can’t complain for too long 🤣 

 

[Groggy]

3 hours ago, Tom Siddle said:

But regardless of what is capable to win why would you want to make a game that everyone enjoys more shorter stacked and shorter handed.
You could say people are enjoying the game more because the traffic is up, but the traffic is just up a lot because having banzai in the unibet poker header makes a massive difference.

The game is definitely a poorer experience for both reg and Rec now that games break quick and games are shorter stacked. 

If the game was kept the same and the rake went up I would have accepted it, and the traffic would be up a lot anyway due to banzai being out on header, so games still would have been better 
 

 

Why would a business invest into and promote a game variant that is going to make them less money than other formats? It is only logical it came with a rake increase.

You have made it very clear you prefer deep stacked poker. There's a wonderful format called 'cash game' that you might enjoy. Banzai has literally been created to appeal to a different demographic who prefer the shallow fast paced game.

[Tom Siddle]

12 minutes ago, Groggy said:

Why would a business invest into and promote a game variant that is going to make them less money than other formats? It is only logical it came with a rake increase.

You have made it very clear you prefer deep stacked poker. There's a wonderful format called 'cash game' that you might enjoy. Banzai has literally been created to appeal to a different demographic who prefer the shallow fast paced game.

Now you’re just saying things with no meaning. ‘Wonderful format called cash game poker’. I like banzai, and I can still have the opinion that a deeper banzai game with a mix of more 10/20/30/40/50-100 stacks is a much more enjoyable game, now it is much more common that the games are 10-20bb deep. There are still deep banzai games of course there is but on average the game has been made much shorter and I am very confident that the average player does not want this nor do they want the regularity that the games break due to 5 handed and the shorter games. 
 

You might be defending it because more regs are out due to rake and more fish are in, you are thinking of yourself but I am thinking about the experience of the game and everyone I know that plays it says it is now a much poorer experience, which it is. 

 

[fornicator99]

36 minutes ago, Tom Siddle said:

 the average player does not want this

 everyone I know that plays it says it is now a much poorer experience

 

I thought I said all I had to say  but this generalization kinda pushes my buttons. It's perfectly legitimate to have a personal opinion but don't say "the average player" and "everyone" if you don't have data to back it up. Also, I would respect it if you would be totally transparent and not hide behind this "everyone thinks it's a poorer experience" bs.
It's simple: if you like to play deep, there's cash games. But it's not hard to imagine that what you really want is to play deep with spaz fish that get it in with top pair 300 bb deep and think they hit jackpot,  the banzai fish type. I get it, we all want that but I guess you can't have it both ways. The shallower you play, the smaller the edge - game is supposed to be shallow - it is what it is.
Regarding the experience of the game, based on comments, the majority here likes it and apparently the data says the recs like it too and are flocking in. And it's also logical, recs like to play bingo don't really care about stack sizes.

[Groggy]

2 hours ago, Tom Siddle said:

You might be defending it because more regs are out due to rake and more fish are in, you are thinking of yourself but I am thinking about the experience of the game and everyone I know that plays it says it is now a much poorer experience, which it is. 

 

So the game has gone from being almost unbeatable with barely existing edges due to the rake increase (as stated in your earlier posts) to me defending increased rake because the games are now more beatable given the more favorable rec- reg ratio? I'm sure @Stubbe-Unibetwill be thrilled about your change of heart.

 

[Groggy]

2 hours ago, Tom Siddle said:

everyone I know that plays it says it is now a much poorer experience, which it is. 

 

It would be constructive to point all these like-minded people to this thread so we can get their feedback. It would really add some credibility to some of these sweeping statements you make.

 

FWIW on a personal level a lot of what you advocate is good for me. I am super comfortable playing all stack depths and some of the regs that play banzai are comparatively weak deep. I almost never choose to reset stacks but believe the functionality should be there for recreationals who are playing the format because they want to play shallow and gamble. I also think it is good for the ecology of the game for recs to be able to book some profit and be able to carry on playing. It'll make it much more likely they'll play again in the future. If a rec plays, and gets absolutely destroyed right off the bat it makes it much less likely they'll play again. The likelihood of this happening is going to be higher if they are forced to play deeper with much better players. The recs who want to play deep can still do that.

Edited December 25, 2022 by Groggy

[Tom Siddle]

2 hours ago, Groggy said:

So the game has gone from being almost unbeatable with barely existing edges due to the rake increase (as stated in your earlier posts) to me defending increased rake because the games are now more beatable given the more favorable rec- reg ratio? I'm sure @Stubbe-Unibetwill be thrilled about your change of heart.

It is because as you say the game self regulates, because a lot of decent players won’t win they’ll leave meaning they’ll be a new set of players that win. If all the same good regs stayed with new rake and shorter stacked games very few regs would win. Now the top players remaining will still win some and the recs will now of course lose more. 
 

anyway that’s not that important my main points are on the quality of the game. And that it has reduced due to games breaking quick, short handed, shorter stacked games, the game was absolutely fine. Only two moves they had to make was unibet banzai header and rake for higher revenue.

[Tom Siddle]

I think I’ll leave it now, could go back and forth for a long time. Think everyone knows my opinion lool 

Good luck to everyone playing it and sorry for all the complaints 

 

[Livertool]

I don't know how you are suppose to play these but imo quite volatile and not so much poker. But 60€ up for completing todays missions so that says how good i am 💪 Still don't understand how those belts work, sometimes one bar, other times two, i get it that banzai improves your level but other than that clueless. Too much kossu, most idiotic person on the planet or something else, who knows.

[FreedoM]

So far at NL1

at NL5

NL20

[Rushbie]

20 hours ago, Livertool said:

Still don't understand how those belts work, sometimes one bar, other times two, i get it that banzai improves your level but other than that clueless.

EZ, belts are for the poorer practitioners doing all the wax on wax off work by going allin or being in the hand with someone who's allin, gaining points everytime when doing it. The more allins, the higher belts. Can't be downgraded in the same table session.
Sensei is the temple manager sitting on the biggest pile of money. No need to do any hard work as much really, just currently hold the most cash. (50bb minimum)
😁

Edit. But yeah, the belts progress bar can get mixed with the healthbar logic quite easily and cause confusion without knowing how it works 🤔

Edited December 26, 2022 by Rushbie
Improvement notes

[GotKot99]

Today’s Xmas Banzai mission:

I think the description had €1000 Banzai Flip Ticket + 50 Beast Mode free spins, am I correct?

Did receive the free spins (won ~ €2,50 🥳), but is the ticket right? 👇 Thanks!