Poker release notes 3.23 (Banzai 2.0)

[Tom Siddle]

29 minutes ago, Stubbe-Unibet said:

Think we might have doubled the previous record for unique players today 🙂

I hear what you're saying, but - probably without realizing it - you're also saying you want the games to be more reg heavy with tougher fields. There is much more traffic across all Banzai stakes now. A lot more unique players playing the game. If you want mobile players and more recreational players, games will break up more often and play will be with shorter stacks. Can't have it all 🙂

There’s more players cos it’s been advertised well, you can still have more players and keep stacks every time the game breaks. 
Everyone wants the option to keep their stack.

It’s even more important to keep stacks now that games are shorter stacked due to ratholing and rake.  

I’ll play anyone worse than me or better than me but either way I’m losing the games where you bluff and battle and have big sweaty all ins 

[Tom Siddle]

I mean I miss the games where we battle and bluff and have bigger spins and hero call whether the players are better than me or worse than me, due to the games being shorter

(On average they’re shorter), I know there still is some deeper games 

[Stubbe-Unibet]

6 minutes ago, Tom Siddle said:

There’s more players cos it’s been advertised well, you can still have more players and keep stacks every time the game breaks. 
Everyone wants the option to keep their stack.

It’s even more important to keep stacks now that games are shorter stacked due to ratholing and rake.  

I’ll play anyone worse than me or better than me but either way I’m losing the games where you bluff and battle and have big sweaty all ins 

You can't have softer fields and more uniques, while keeping stack sizes the same. It simply doesn't make sense when looking at the data. Bad/recreational players play shorter sessions on average and especially on mobile this is true.

You are however right that the option to keep stack would make games deeper. 

Also, "everyone wants to keep their stack" and highlighting ratholing as an issue is a bit odd 😉

[Stubbe-Unibet]

Should mention that I would like us to investigate the possibility of keeping stack/moving stack to another table if original table closes or is full. 

[Tom Siddle]

14 minutes ago, Stubbe-Unibet said:

You can't have softer fields and more uniques, while keeping stack sizes the same. It simply doesn't make sense when looking at the data. Bad/recreational players play shorter sessions on average and especially on mobile this is true.

You are however right that the option to keep stack would make games deeper. 

Also, "everyone wants to keep their stack" and highlighting ratholing as an issue is a bit odd 😉

Two things 

 

1) Everyone wants the option to keep their stack, if the table breaks the player would very likely want to keep the stack, otherwise they likely would have already ratholed, so most people that don’t rathole will wanna keep their stack after a table breaks.

2) I agree more recs means shallower games, (Also 5 handed means shallower cos recs leave quicker when it goes to 2 or 3 handed) (Also new rake makes games shallower)

you don’t have to compound this and make games even more shallower by losing stack after a game finishes.

 

Cheers,

Tom

 

 

 

[EatMoreNaga]

On 12/7/2022 at 4:25 PM, Stubbe-Unibet said:

 

• Sitout – 90 seconds and after you are kicked from table. Banzai 2.0 is separated from global sitout timer. 

I was half way through the purple belt when MTT break came. Went to take a leak. Goodbye black belt. Stack was carried over the kick out, but not the belt progression.

Edited December 19, 2022 by EatMoreNaga

[Stubbe-Unibet]

1 hour ago, Tom Siddle said:

1) Everyone wants the option to keep their stack, if the table breaks the player would very likely want to keep the stack, otherwise they likely would have already ratholed, so most people that don’t rathole will wanna keep their stack after a table breaks.

2) I agree more recs means shallower games, (Also 5 handed means shallower cos recs leave quicker when it goes to 2 or 3 handed) (Also new rake makes games shallower)

you don’t have to compound this and make games even more shallower by losing stack after a game finishes.

1) I get slightly triggered by the "everyone" 😄  but I tend to agree in the sense that it can't hurt to offer the option (development complexity is of course the issue here).

2) Looking at the data, the increase in traffic is definitely the main reason but you're right there're more things having an impact of course (not sure there's much evidence - yet - to support that the rake and 5 handed has a big impact here)

5 minutes ago, EatMoreNaga said:

I was half way through the purple belt when MTT break came. Went to take a leak. Goodbye black belt. Stack was carried over the kick out, but not the belt progression.

Would like to look into this as well. This one is lower on the prio list though. 

[GR1ZZL3R]

 

 @Stubbe-Unibet I noticed this morning that after I became Sensei the hand replayer showed me as Sensei but only for a few hands, reverting back to showing my current status belt even though I was still Sensei.

  

I have of course just realized someone on another table could have overtaken me, sorry. 

 

😳

Edited December 20, 2022 by GR1ZZL3R

[GotKot99]

I was playing earlier today some ordinary cash games and then decided to switch into Banzai. The switch to the new Banzai was so huge. I was having much more fun there than in normal cash game table. Not saying there is anything wrong with the normal cash game, it is just that new Banzai feels so fun to play with! I really believe, there is great potential in Banzai 2.0 👍

I was also about to post a screenshot of my first ever level 4 Loyalty System achievement. But when I saw this 👇 in another thread by @maciaseczek, I’m not gonna even bother 🙃

 

And couple of quick name suggestions for Banzai if needed:

Jason StackHam (Jason Statham)

Lucky Fluke (Lucky Luke)

Thor Flop In Soon (Thor Odinson)

Ebany KO Bomber (Ebanie Bridges)

 

 

[FreedoM]

8 minutes ago, GotKot99 said:

I was playing earlier today some ordinary cash games and then decided to switch into Banzai. The switch to the new Banzai was so huge. I was having much more fun there than in normal cash game table. Not saying there is anything wrong with the normal cash game, it is just that new Banzai feels so fun to play with! I really believe, there is great potential in Banzai 2.0 👍

I was also about to post a screenshot of my first ever level 4 Loyalty System achievement. But when I saw this 👇 in another thread by @maciaseczek, I’m not gonna even bother 🙃

 

And couple of quick name suggestions for Banzai if needed:

Jason StackHam (Jason Statham)

Lucky Fluke (Lucky Luke)

Thor Flop In Soon (Thor Odinson)

Ebany KO Bomber (Ebanie Bridges)

 

 

Don't get discouraged, we all are on our own journey through life and if we never celebrate anything because someone else is higher or got there first we will have -EV life experience.

So post away and enjoy every moment of it. 🍻

Edited December 20, 2022 by FreedoM
#BeYou

[fornicator99]

 

I think it's better to avoid this situation with two players with the same name at the table. Ideally, there should be unique names for all the players in the pool at one moment.

[Stubbe-Unibet]

43 minutes ago, fornicator99 said:

 

I think it's better to avoid this situation with two players with the same name at the table. Ideally, there should be unique names for all the players in the pool at one moment.

It's actually not same name. But these two shouldn't both exist 

[Tom Siddle]

I think this has kind of become like a house game now like blackjack.

It is just 10bb spins now as opposed to the mixture of 10bb-70bb stacks that there use to be, as several factors are making the game super short.

when the game is super short there isn’t much edge between players making it a house game and then additionally there is now higher rake.

I miss the competitive long and deeper banzai sessions. Now everyone is just 10bb spinning with very small edge.

 

The house (unibet) must be absolutely cleaning up right now cos there are twice as many players and 2.5x the rake.

Of course can still find some fun games that become mix of 10-70bb as opposed to everyone spinning 10-20bb but they are much rarer now 

 

[Wizard]

Is Banzai supposed to have disappeared from the client?

It just disappeared as an option my my poker client but I can still see it on my phone.

I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong, having a technical issue or if this is a deliberate change.

 

 

 

 

 

[Stubbe-Unibet]

We are investigating the option of carry-over of stacks across tables. This will not be ready for January release however. It's possible we do a temporary compromise where we increase the idle kick from 90 seconds to 150 seconds. There is no decision made yet, so don't go celebrating already 😉

33 minutes ago, Wizard said:

Is Banzai supposed to have disappeared from the client?

It just disappeared as an option my my poker client but I can still see it on my phone.

I'm not sure if I'm doing something wrong, having a technical issue or if this is a deliberate change.

That's weird! It's windows you've got an issue with? Could you try to sign out and back in? If that doesn't solve it, try to reinstall. Would love to hear if anyone else is having this issue!

6 hours ago, Tom Siddle said:

I think this has kind of become like a house game now like blackjack.

It is just 10bb spins now as opposed to the mixture of 10bb-70bb stacks that there use to be, as several factors are making the game super short.

when the game is super short there isn’t much edge between players making it a house game and then additionally there is now higher rake.

I miss the competitive long and deeper banzai sessions. Now everyone is just 10bb spinning with very small edge.

The house (unibet) must be absolutely cleaning up right now cos there are twice as many players and 2.5x the rake.

Of course can still find some fun games that become mix of 10-70bb as opposed to everyone spinning 10-20bb but they are much rarer now 

Sure, there's no way you can win long-term in Banzai, when there're people making a living on games with twice the rake 😉 Again, even if the rake is higher than before, it's still industry low and there're no plans to change it (we will of course monitor the games closely . It will take a while just to cover the development costs.

I can only repeat what I've said before. The shallower games will inevitably happen when more players are playing the game/it's promoted more.

It's way too early for this, but anyway: looking at the top 10 winners, NL20 regs are winning significantly more now, per raked hand. For NL5 it's the same while on NL1 we've seen a decrease. Again, way too early to look at this and need a lot more hands per player. Just want to stress that we are monitoring all these things and there's really no point in discussing the profitability of the game as we've obviously got all the data needed to monitor this 🙂 That doesn't mean the feedback on features isn't very much appreciated! And we are discussing some changes - based on the player feedback - as mentioned earlier.

[fornicator99]

2 hours ago, Stubbe-Unibet said:

 NL20 regs are winning significantly more now, per raked hand. For NL5 it's the same

Interesting, this could only mean that games are WAY softer now.

[Stubbe-Unibet]

43 minutes ago, fornicator99 said:

Interesting, this could only mean that games are WAY softer now.

Sample size for Banzai 2.0 is too small to draw any conclusions. I might share some numbers again in a month, when we've got a proper number of hands per player 🙂

[Tom Siddle]

7 hours ago, Stubbe-Unibet said:

We are investigating the option of carry-over of stacks across tables. This will not be ready for January release however. It's possible we do a temporary compromise where we increase the idle kick from 90 seconds to 150 seconds. There is no decision made yet, so don't go celebrating already 😉

That's weird! It's windows you've got an issue with? Could you try to sign out and back in? If that doesn't solve it, try to reinstall. Would love to hear if anyone else is having this issue!

Sure, there's no way you can win long-term in Banzai, when there're people making a living on games with twice the rake 😉 Again, even if the rake is higher than before, it's still industry low and there're no plans to change it (we will of course monitor the games closely . It will take a while just to cover the development costs.

I can only repeat what I've said before. The shallower games will inevitably happen when more players are playing the game/it's promoted more.

It's way too early for this, but anyway: looking at the top 10 winners, NL20 regs are winning significantly more now, per raked hand. For NL5 it's the same while on NL1 we've seen a decrease. Again, way too early to look at this and need a lot more hands per player. Just want to stress that we are monitoring all these things and there's really no point in discussing the profitability of the game as we've obviously got all the data needed to monitor this 🙂 That doesn't mean the feedback on features isn't very much appreciated! And we are discussing some changes - based on the player feedback - as mentioned earlier.

Yes some people make a living from other sites with bigger rake but not in games that are consistently this short stack due to multiple factors.
 

Anyway even if I’m a winner or not I would like to battle players in this 20bb-70bb region.

These games are breaking so quick due to 5 handed and new players, and games are shorter stack due to non transfer over tables and ratholing and new players and 90s rule. 
 

It definitely has become a bit of a house game and im guessing it’s a fantastic decision from unibet in terms of their revenue 

[Tom Siddle]

Is it possible to have the scroll bar back for betting on mobile?

At the moment when I want to bet a certain size I have to click a button and then press 3 and then press OK and then press bet, (when I don’t want to bet say exactly half pot) 

With the scroller it is so quick to scroll to approx the number and press bet 

[Stubbe-Unibet]

18 minutes ago, Tom Siddle said:

Yes some people make a living from other sites with bigger rake but not in games that are consistently this short stack due to multiple factors.
 

Anyway even if I’m a winner or not I would like to battle players in this 20bb-70bb region.

These games are breaking so quick due to 5 handed and new players, and games are shorter stack due to non transfer over tables and ratholing and new players and 90s rule. 
 

It definitely has become a bit of a house game and im guessing it’s a fantastic decision from unibet in terms of their revenue 

Yes, even shorter in fact and still profitable 🙂

I feel we're going around in circles a bit, so I'll just refer to my previous post(s) in regard to 90 seconds, ratholing and saving the stack.

14 minutes ago, Tom Siddle said:

Is it possible to have the scroll bar back for betting on mobile?

At the moment when I want to bet a certain size I have to click a button and then press 3 and then press OK and then press bet, (when I don’t want to bet say exactly half pot) 

With the scroller it is so quick to scroll to approx the number and press bet 

You can switch yourself in settings 🙂 Banzai portrait bet buttons just needs to be switched off 

[Tom Siddle]

33 minutes ago, Stubbe-Unibet said:

Yes, even shorter in fact and still profitable 🙂

I feel we're going around in circles a bit, so I'll just refer to my previous post(s) in regard to 90 seconds, ratholing and saving the stack.

You can switch yourself in settings 🙂 Banzai portrait bet buttons just needs to be switched off 

This year I made €14 per hour over 300 hours.

A very small % of banzai pool will have that EV (they might have earnt it over small sample due to variance)

€14 an hour has been reduced to €3.5 with new rake, ofc games better but I think that extra EV is more than cancelled out by much shorter games.

meaning 2023 with current game setup hardly any players would make peanuts really.

I am okay with the new rake, I just think more needs to be done to make the games less short.

Regardless of winners, losers, winrates, banzai is more fun with mixture of semi stacks rather than everyone having 10bb.

It seems it’s your job to defend how unibet making a lot more money from us is actually in the interest of the players.

 

[Stubbe-Unibet]

14 minutes ago, Tom Siddle said:

This year I made €14 per hour over 300 hours.

A very small % of banzai pool will have that EV (they might have earnt it over small sample due to variance)

€14 an hour has been reduced to €3.5 with new rake, ofc games better but I think that extra EV is more than cancelled out by much shorter games.

meaning 2023 with current game setup hardly any players would make peanuts really.

I am okay with the new rake, I just think more needs to be done to make the games less short.

Regardless of winners, losers, winrates, banzai is more fun with mixture of semi stacks rather than everyone having 10bb.

It seems it’s your job to defend how unibet making a lot more money from us is actually in the interest of the players.

It's my job to make sure the poker product is growing (which it is). Again, I've pushed for several rake reductions since I joined the poker team - I'm not the enemy here 🙂 Yes, of course I will defend a decision I think is right and was very much part of making. It's not about "taking a lot of money from us", it's about increasing the Banzai traffic, making sure games are running for more hours and recreational players enjoy it more than before.

I guess you missed the post earlier where I made it clear the biggest winners - so far - are not struggling at all but actually winning more per raked hand (while playing more hands). As I said in the same post, it is too early to draw any conclusions, but there's definitely nothing in the data supporting your claims thus far. Your own data is obviously also useless at this stage with a relatively low number of hands on an incredibly swingy format. 

Also:

9 hours ago, Stubbe-Unibet said:

We are investigating the option of carry-over of stacks across tables. This will not be ready for January release however. It's possible we do a temporary compromise where we increase the idle kick from 90 seconds to 150 seconds. There is no decision made yet, so don't go celebrating already 😉

 

[Tom Siddle]

5 hours ago, Stubbe-Unibet said:

It's my job to make sure the poker product is growing (which it is). Again, I've pushed for several rake reductions since I joined the poker team - I'm not the enemy here 🙂 Yes, of course I will defend a decision I think is right and was very much part of making. It's not about "taking a lot of money from us", it's about increasing the Banzai traffic, making sure games are running for more hours and recreational players enjoy it more than before.

I guess you missed the post earlier where I made it clear the biggest winners - so far - are not struggling at all but actually winning more per raked hand (while playing more hands). As I said in the same post, it is too early to draw any conclusions, but there's definitely nothing in the data supporting your claims thus far. Your own data is obviously also useless at this stage with a relatively low number of hands on an incredibly swingy format. 

Also:

 

No I didn’t mean my new winrate is €3.5 an hour, I mean before it was €14 per hour and if the rake was 2.5% it would of been €3.5 per hour. That is the difference the rake makes.

Probably worse than that now due to far fewer deeper games. 

That will happen to all the regs win rate within a few months. 

That’s not really a complaint tbh I just wanted to say the reality. 

Of course you want more traffic, that’s done by the better exposure, that would of increased of revenue alone, but someone also said they wanted us to pay more to play. 
unibet banzai players bad to decent are about to get cleaned up.

[Tom Siddle]

And just curious what is logic for allowing 4 now tables over 2, I guess it’s good for me and good for regs but why would you want more regs at more tables, no rec plays over 2 tables so big negative for recs 

[Stubbe-Unibet]

4 hours ago, Tom Siddle said:

No I didn’t mean my new winrate is €3.5 an hour, I mean before it was €14 per hour and if the rake was 2.5% it would of been €3.5 per hour. That is the difference the rake makes.

Probably worse than that now due to far fewer deeper games. 

That will happen to all the regs win rate within a few months. 

That’s not really a complaint tbh I just wanted to say the reality. 

Of course you want more traffic, that’s done by the better exposure, that would of increased of revenue alone, but someone also said they wanted us to pay more to play. 
unibet banzai players bad to decent are about to get cleaned up.

You're just guessing here and your example really doesn't make any sense. Reality and your perception of things are frankly just two very different things 🙂

Probably best to put the speculations and guessing on hold for now. After all, it doesn't add much. We have the data so there's no need for guessing. Again, several of your "predictions" contradict very solid data at hand.

If you've got any feedback on the game which doesn't involve you looking at tarot cards, I'm all ears 😉