Poker release notes 3.23 (Banzai 2.0)

[fornicator99]

Sometimes it feels like no matter how good you put it in you always lose, right? Especially in Banzai. But I'm pretty sure there's a bug with the life bar here in this situation 😅

[GotKot99]

2 hours ago, Stubbe-Unibet said:

First priority is to bring the girls to the party

Okay, so now we’re talking business (sorry, the mind of a single guy)!!

This also reminded me of an alternative VS animation, maybe introduced in some later Banzai update. Lo and behold:

The new VS - Victoria’s Secret (Angels) 😃😉

 

P.S. I would have changed the GIF and the accompanying text into a spoiler. But the text editor didn’t give me the option to do that 🤔

[Wizard]

IDK if this is deliberate but all the 'health bars' above the avatars that will display the equity dont seem to be working. They just display no health on all the allins.

 

[Stubbe-Unibet]

19 minutes ago, Wizard said:

IDK if this is deliberate but all the 'health bars' above the avatars that will display the equity dont seem to be working. They just display no health on all the allins.

 

It's a bug. We're trying to figure out why/when it happens

[fornicator99]

Just please don't take it down. Planning to have a Banzai full weekend  🙂

[fornicator99]

Seems ok now.

[Stubbe-Unibet]

It won't be taken down 🙂 Might even be live on mobile apps shortly!

[Stubbe-Unibet]

Banzai now live across all platforms!

An example of what's to come on other brands next month (ignore FAQ):

[Panamera]

I have one more thought: What if there would be a special Banzai stake opened 1-2 days in a month accessible only for players who have obtained both black belts and Sensei statuses on each and every existing Banzai stake. If nl100 becomes available as a daily special, then this special stake should be nl200, but that might be too much. 

 

I like the idea where players who have obtained both a black belt and a Sensei status (in nl50/nl100 or in all stakes) would have special privileges once in a while.

[Stubbe-Unibet]

Just now, Panamera said:

I have one more thought: What if there would be a special Banzai stake opened 1-2 days in a month accessible only for players who have obtained both black belts and Sensei statuses on each and every existing Banzai stake. If nl100 becomes available as a daily special, then this special stake should be nl200, but that might be too much. 

 

I like the idea where players who have obtained both a black belt and a Sensei status (in nl50/nl100 or in all stakes) would have special privileges once in a while.

I like the idea of having some sort of monetary incentive tied to the gamification elements - also clear it's something many of you on here would like to see 🙂

Haven't thought much about it tbh as we need to see how the game does first - it needs to perform to justify further more complex development.

[Evarb]

16 hours ago, Stubbe-Unibet said:

I assume this was a one-time thing? 🙂

Yea it happened only once.

[GotKot99]

1 hour ago, Stubbe-Unibet said:

Banzai now live across all platforms!

Confirmed for iPad - working nicely with the updated Poker App 🥳

 

Also a typo detected in the Banzai Bonanza Special description. 👇

Probably should read “belt” instead of “felt”.
 

Also not 100% sure about the expression used in that sentence “chance to battle it out for the supremacy on…” And are players battling over who has the highest belt or for the Sensei status (I.e., for the biggest over 50BB stack). No mention of Sensei in the description. Don’t know if necessary.

P.S. If elf-testing needed by Santa on the special NL50 arena, I’m up for a ticket 😆 (just kidding).

 

[Tom Siddle]

Yeah there’s no way in the world ratholing is good for the game. 
Mainly no one wants to lose their stack anyway it’s just their stack gets wiped out when inevitably at some point they are away for more than 90s which will happen to nearly everyone, they then rejoin with the lowest stack. This is gunna infuriate people.

And even if they did wanna rathole it shouldn’t be allowed. It is so bad for the game. 
Recs will hate the 90s rule, everyone will really just cos it’s so inconvenient, has to be some balance between previous 8m and this.

[fornicator99]

Ok, from my experience people sitting out on purpose happens quite rarely and doesn't impact the game too much. What was really annoying was people sitting out with 0 balance after being stacked. Sometimes you had even 2-3 of them at the table and it sucked. I propose something in between: if you have a stack bigger than 10 buy ins then a bigger sit out period but if you have 0 then 90 seconds - enough time to rebuy.
LE: nevermind,  I've read the the answer below, makes sense if the game is mobile focused.

Edited December 16, 2022 by fornicator99

[Stubbe-Unibet]

15 minutes ago, Tom Siddle said:

Yeah there’s no way in the world ratholing is good for the game. 
Mainly no one wants to lose their stack anyway it’s just their stack gets wiped out when inevitably at some point they are away for more than 90s which will happen to nearly everyone, they then rejoin with the lowest stack. This is gunna infuriate people.

And even if they did wanna rathole it shouldn’t be allowed. It is so bad for the game. 
Recs will hate the 90s rule, everyone will really just cos it’s so inconvenient, has to be some balance between previous 8m and this.

I don't think you can speak on behalf of all regs and recs 😉 

The 90s rule is great for recs, as it ensures action and faster play. Due to the nature of the game, sitouts were very common before and with 5 handed play it'd be a huge issue. Again, we're designing this with a mobile first mindset. I basically don't see why there should ever be sitout allowed - you are not supposed to be able to remain seated at the table when you're away from your device. 90 seconds is a compromise already. Moving stacks between tables would be a weird dynamic. 
You don't rejoin with lowest stack, unless you choose to do so, or you're sat at a different table. 

Your view does not align with the data. It is not bad for the game. Allowing it a few times a day ensures players don't leave the table when they've accumulated a table balance they don't feel comfortable playing with. Again, it's just a few times a day, so it can't really be abused, outside of what I just outlined here, and that's not abuse but a very recreational friendly feature.
I of course get where you're coming from: you want the chance to win back money lost. You're just making the wrong assumption that the alternative to rejoining with 10bb is the player remaining seated at the table 🙂 

19 minutes ago, GotKot99 said:

Probably should read “belt” instead of “felt”.

No, text is right 😉 

[GotKot99]

3 minutes ago, Stubbe-Unibet said:

No, text is right 😉

Okay 😉👍 

[Tom Siddle]

It is fast anyway when temporarily 1 person is sitting out for 3-4 mins and 4 people are playing, 90s is mad.

Recs are just gunna punch their screen when they answer door to someone or take a phone call and you kick them out.

I can’t believe how ratholing is being justified and defended as good for the game here, you should be a lawyer.

[Stubbe-Unibet]

20 minutes ago, Tom Siddle said:

It is fast anyway when temporarily 1 person is sitting out for 3-4 mins and 4 people are playing, 90s is mad.

Recs are just gunna punch their screen when they answer door to someone or take a phone call and you kick them out.

I can’t believe how ratholing is being justified and defended as good for the game here, you should be a lawyer.

Ratholing mitigation measures were introduced on my watch: 

So if it isn't clear, I'm very much against it in most cases. It just isn't as black and white as you make it sound. Limited ratholing can be a good thing. Unlimited is terrible.

What we saw with regular cash games was that some regs were absolutely abusing the option: playing with 50BB and leaving the table if they had 50.5bb (some would leave thousands of times throughout the year and often for just a few bb). Short-stacking and ratholing combined of course makes it even worse. However, we also saw that a lot of bad/recreational players were making use of ratholing to protect themselves and stay within their comfort zone; when table balance got high enough they'd leave the table and return again with 100bb - and this would only be a couple of times a day for most of these players (and it would not be for 5-10bb profit but usually several buyins).

I'm a recreational player myself and when I lose a big pot to someone you can be damn sure I'll want to win it back at an instant, so I understand the rationale and emotional response from a player perspective (in terms of not wanting it). Again, it isn't black and white and there are of course downsides to current rules as well.

[Tom Siddle]

Cos banzai is pretty different from regular cash.

you rathole 300bb to 100bb regular cash you still have a competitive multiple street decision making game at 100bb, the banzai games really heat up when they are deeper.

if you rathole 100bb to 10bb at banzai it is back to just spinning, very limited decision making push fold kind of game, so in regular cash you don’t lose the element of battling when somebody ratholes, in banzai you do, when they rathole you’re just back to shoving ranges of charts. Which is fun at start but banzai gets exciting deeper you get.

My personal opinion strongly don’t think anyone should be able to rathole once 

[Stubbe-Unibet]

Just now, Tom Siddle said:

Cos banzai is pretty different from regular cash.

you rathole 300bb to 100bb regular cash you still have a competitive multiple street decision making game at 100bb, the banzai games really heat up when they are deeper.

if you rathole 100bb to 10bb at banzai it is back to just spinning, very limited decision making push fold kind of game, so in regular cash you don’t lose the element of battling when somebody ratholes, in banzai you do, when they rathole you’re just back to shoving ranges of charts. Which is fun at start but banzai gets exciting deeper you get.

My personal opinion strongly don’t think anyone should be able to rathole once 

Yes, there are major differences, I just explained the rationale behind the original mitigation rules as some of it applies here as well.

I do appreciate you sharing your opinion, and it is of course something we'll keep an eye on to see if it is abused or players are only ratholing to a very limited extent, to stay in their comfort zone 🙂 

[Tom Siddle]

Surely even if it is once that is too many? 
inagine if a rec player loses to another rec player and they rathole, the guy is gunna be raging.

I mean I’m gunna be raging as well but you’re thinking about the recs, if that happened to a rec in a live game he’d flip the table over.

 

[Stubbe-Unibet]

Just now, Tom Siddle said:

Surely even if it is once that is too many? 
inagine if a rec player loses to another rec player and they rathole, the guy is gunna be raging.

I mean I’m gunna be raging as well but you’re thinking about the recs, if that happened to a rec in a live game he’d flip the table over.

No, it isn't that simple. If the feature overall helps keep players at the table - as they aren't forced to leave completely, when they accumulate a big stack (if you've played a lot of Banzai, I'm sure you'll remember players leaving with several buyins, also bad players?) - it also bring a huge benefit. Again, helping players stay within their comfort zone by leaving once or twice during a session, that is a good thing (even if it might initially annoy other players, but they surely would be more annoyed if player left completely - if he was less skilled at the game). 

[Tom Siddle]

Think it just creates a shorter game which is less of a fun game, things get much more exciting around 20/30/40/50+bbs,  bigger pots, more bluffing, more at stake.

plus it’s poker etiquette.

I understand your point though for sure.

 

 

[Stubbe-Unibet]

Let's see what other guys on here think about the ratholing rules and then we'll review it next month when we've gathered more data as well. Will not revert the change before we've got enough data to make an informed decision 🙂 

[Tom Siddle]

I was in a sick game on desktop and needed the toilet and had to switch to phone logs me out then back in, and was forced to play on the toilet.

The 90s has to be be changed to 3 or 4 minutes I think it’s pretty stupid tbh.