Stubbe's Bundesliga Corner

[WuDu]

On 11/12/2023 at 10:23 AM, Livertool said:

but if you expect success it is pretty arrogant to think you can do things so much better that you make it with half the price.

 

Top players in the Bundesliga and their transfer fees:

Xavi Simons: 0.

Grimaldo: 0.

Boniface: 20 M.

Guirassy: 9 M.

Undav: 700 K.

In the past:

Kolo Muani: 0.

Wirtz: 200 K.

Musiala: 200 K.

Frimpong: 11M.

Bellingham: 25 M.

Haaland: 20 M.

[Livertool]

Musiala onlyone that won anything? 

You are mixing team building to individuals who has positively suprised all. Otherwise some team would have got them all, right?

[WuDu]

58 minutes ago, Livertool said:

Musiala onlyone that won anything? 

Haaland? Kimmich, Davies, Gnabry from Bayern were also rather cheap and "unknown" when they joined the club. Not that it matters though if specific players won trophies or not...

The point is that your hypothesis is that the BVB doesn't spend enough and I've proven now that you don't need to spend much at all and you can still find gems. Nkunku, Diaby, Sancho, Tapsoba, Kone also are well known Bundesliga names that were available for <20 M Euro.  

My point is that you need a plan and scout for specific players and to me it seems like the BVB is moving away from scouting and developing a little too much. 

[Livertool]

7 hours ago, WuDu said:

Not that it matters though if specific players won trophies or not...

Yup and that wasn't the point. Sure lot of cheap players have helped teams but way more disappointments too, cheap and expensive. Point was if you need some player(s) to fill and improve some positions in the field, restricting your options with being cheap thou you could afford more expensive players is just stupid imo. Or selling your players cause big money incoming and not even trying to offer them good enough contract and wage that they would be as least tempted to stay.

I don't remember BVB offering their stars big contracts to keep them nor trying to buy high profile players (except Haaland) even when they could have used them. Like last winter window, you were in good position in both buli and cl yet no updates bought thou Haller was just coming back and none knew in which condition he was going to be, no help to thin midfield and eventually Jude run out of steam. Could have couple of well thought inforcements made difference in the end? We don't know cause bosses were afraid to invest.

Interesting to see what Girona will do if they manage to be at top(ish) still at end of year. That is team that is build with peanuts thou owners are shitty sugar daddy and Pep's bro so ain't lacking funds or connections. And if they go for shopping spree will it screw up their team spirit and good job they done so far.

[WuDu]

2 hours ago, Livertool said:

Or selling your players cause big money incoming and not even trying to offer them good enough contract and wage that they would be as least tempted to stay.

I think the BVB was offering Bellingham something like 15 M a year last season. But if Sancho, Haaland and Jude wanted to move on, what are we supposed to do? Hold their families hostage and force them to stay?  That's not good for long-term business.

2 hours ago, Livertool said:

Like last winter window, you were in good position in both buli and cl yet no updates bought thou Haller was just coming back and none knew in which condition he was going to be, no help to thin midfield and eventually Jude run out of steam. Could have couple of well thought inforcements made difference in the end? We don't know cause bosses were afraid to invest.

Last winter, during the WC, the BVB was in fifth or sixth place, 10 points behind Bayern. Edin turned the team around, starting in winter training camp. In addition to that, the BVB brought in 2 reinforcements with Ryerson and Duranville. Ryerson practically plays all the minutes as RB or LB and Duranville has been injured all the time.

Bayern is signing some "17 year old" from Australia for a few million Euros:

Regardless whether or not he'll make it in the first team, however this is the creative type of transfer, I'd like to see from the BVB as well! Seems like one hell of an athlete. 

 

[Livertool]

14 hours ago, WuDu said:

Hold their families hostage and force them to stay?

Sure, why not. But first, hire some imbecile as "boss" who you can throw under the bus if/when shit hits the fan.

 

[jerry]

Dumbass  No lose for DFB though, could be usefull only as a impact sub but only in last resort.

Assuming salary was the same Cavani would certainly scored more than 2 goals, at least in Buli...

So Edin should fight for Pokal and in league only what its necessary, even fielding some c-team against Bayern for examlpe. Brands or no Brands there will be annual 5-6 in Munchen so why trying? Maybe some lucky run in CL like italian teams last year? But if i was betting man i would say Dortmund WILL NOT win last two matches and somehow miss top 2. So maybe Europa League glory? 

Edited November 15, 2023 by jerry

[Livertool]

Wellwellwell...

"as long as they successfully qualify for the Championship League, the job of Terzic isn’t in danger" 

Like i said all along, no ambition for winning.

[WuDu]

Typical response to BVB's problems by @Livertool:

"BVB must spend more money, they have to go after Harry Kane, Vinicius Jr and Osimhen. All at once!"

Typical response to BVB's problems by @jerry:

"There's a great player from Wroclaw 2, Ngubu Yeboah, so far he played 1650 minutes in Druga Liga scoring 3 goals, he could easily replace Moukoko."

@jerry All these "news" are old news. Bild is the German version of The Sun, they like to stir shit up. I don't care about the U-21 team, so Adeyemi staying in Dortmund working on his game is a plus to me. Let's be honest, the Milfhunter is no U-21 player anymore and also should not be allowed anywhere close to the National Team.

I listened to the podcast where the other BVB news have been taken from, also nothing new here. I think we all agree that Modeste in Dortmund was a bust and everybody here, myself included, called it. Maybe Cavani would have busted as well? Who knows? Cavani wasn't much better in Valencia if you simply look at his stats. For example, other big name players like Bonucci and Fofana haven't show much for Union this season as well.

Watzke loves Edin almost as much as he loves himself.  However the current discussion about Edin is totally ridiculous. Just let him cook in peace and once we reached the Christmas break, we can reevaluate.

The BVB only needs one win to reach the 1/8-finals. I'm expecting some UCL glory next spring!

8 hours ago, Livertool said:

Wellwellwell...

"as long as they successfully qualify for the Championship League, the job of Terzic isn’t in danger" 

Like i said all along, no ambition for winning.

Finally, something I can agree on with @Livertool. That's the same thing I recognized as well that the BVB's bosses are pretty content with the status quo. All is fine and dandy as long as there's UCL money coming in, we play entertaining football at home and some star players can be developed and sold. 

That's the reason why a Leverkusen win would be so important. It would immediately eliminate Watzke's favourite excuse of Bayern being overwhelmingly better funded, thus there's nothing the BVB (under his watch) could have done any better.

The German NT is playing in Berlin vs Turkey this Saturday. Obviously a home game for our muslim friends, so this could be a LOLsy atmosphere. Mr Erdogan is visiting Berlin as well this weekend. What do you think guys? Minute of silence/boos for Israel? 

[Livertool]

7 hours ago, WuDu said:

Finally, something I can agree on with @Livertool

Finally, took awhile for sure. Persistent pays off  

7 hours ago, WuDu said:

All is fine and dandy as long as there's UCL money coming in,

That is all i've tried to say all along.

7 hours ago, WuDu said:

That's the reason why a Leverkusen win would be so important. It would immediately eliminate Watzke's favourite excuse of Bayern being overwhelmingly better funded, thus there's nothing the BVB (under his watch) could have done any better.

Also being left out of cl position should be eye opener for Watzke. Should be, not sure if it is. Is he big of a man to admit that maybe he hasn't allowed enough chips to build competitive team or will he just blame Edin for failure? His comment above suggests latter.

Apparently you got lot to thank Watzke for saving club from bankruptcy but ain't team suppose to be mainly giving club and fans best success possible and not be just cash machine for owners. Ofc there needs to be somekind of balance in there too to prevent finance problems and some profit for owners (unless club owner by Al Oil) but to me BVB actions have heavily on safety side recent years and big part of it has been cause top 4 position has been so easy to achieve without any risk and bigger investments.

[Livertool]

Bundesliga. Breaking glass ceilings.  

 

[WuDu]

22 hours ago, Livertool said:

Apparently you got lot to thank Watzke for saving club from bankruptcy but ain't team suppose to be mainly giving club and fans best success possible and not be just cash machine for owners. Ofc there needs to be somekind of balance in there too to prevent finance problems and some profit for owners (unless club owner by Al Oil) but to me BVB actions have heavily on safety side recent years and big part of it has been cause top 4 position has been so easy to achieve without any risk and bigger investments.

Watzke was one of the main persons who prevented the bankruptcy, but he's more and more turning into clueless boomer territory with some of the things he says publically. But yeah, his job as CEO should be safe due to his role in saving the club. However you also have to keep in mind that according to tm.de, the BVB spent almost 800 M Euro in total on gross transfer fees since the end of the Kloppo era. That's almost 88 M a year on players coming in. So you cannot say that the club is not willing to spend. And again, it's not how much you spend but for whom you spend.

If you're the BVB and spend between 35-40 M Euros on 30 year old Fülle and 29 year old Sabitzer in one transfer window, they better deliver...

22 hours ago, Livertool said:

Also being left out of cl position should be eye opener for Watzke. Should be, not sure if it is. Is he big of a man to admit that maybe he hasn't allowed enough chips to build competitive team or will he just blame Edin for failure? His comment above suggests latter.

Like I said, Watzke is turning more and more into a clueless boomer. I say, let Edin cook until Christmas and then look at the whole situation once more. The title is likely gone, but with 

• Gladbach
• Milan
• Leverkusen
• Stuttgart in the Pokal
• Red Bull 
• PSG

coming up, we'll see where the club is headed. Edin turned around two seasons, just let him cook.

Edited November 17, 2023 by WuDu

[Livertool]

22 hours ago, WuDu said:

BVB spent almost 800 M Euro in total on gross transfer fees since the end of the Kloppo era.

And about billion received...

 

[WuDu]

1 hour ago, Livertool said:

And about billion received...

 

That might be news to you and your fellow SDP comrades, however if you want to spend money, you'll have to earn it first. Unless you're a sugar daddy club, of course. However the narrative that the BVB isn't spending enough is simply not correct with 800 M spent on transfer fees alone since Kloppo left.

https://www.transfermarkt.de/borussia-dortmund/wertvollsteabgaenge/verein/16

Let's look at the top-15 BVB departures of all time, sorted by the tm market value and what the BVB spent to get them (boni excluded):

Haaland: 20 M. Jude: 25 M. Sancho: 8 M. Auba: 13 M. Pulisic: 0. Lewy: 5 M. Götze: 0. Alcacer: 2+21 M (loan at first). Hummels: 0+4 M (loan at first). Diallo: 28 M. Dembele: 15 M. Mkhitaryan: 27 M. Gündogan: 5 M. Akanji: 21 M. Yarmolenko: 25 M.

Those are pretty strong players, yet with the exception of Diallo and Mkhitaryan, no one initially cost more than 25 M to acquire. 

Edited November 18, 2023 by WuDu

[Livertool]

1 hour ago, WuDu said:

narrative that the BVB isn't spending enough is simply not correct with 800 M spent on transfer fees alone since Kloppo left

Ain't going deeper into this as not my greatest interest and lot more behind finances than just transfer fees but fact is that if we look at only transfer fees of top 5 clubs at buli atm after Klopp left, only BVB and Stuttgart has put less money on transfers that they got out of. Way more. Stuttgart ain't that significant in this as they don't probly even have tried to go for team that realistically can fight for trophy but anyways. So if we look at only 4 teams that more or less expect and pursuit success, Bayern has spent over 200M more than received during that era, Leipzig around 100M and Leverkusen is also behind around 20M vs BVB who has profited 200M with transfers. Don't that ring any bells why such big difference?

[WuDu]

10 hours ago, Livertool said:

Don't that ring any bells why such big difference?

We're buying low and selling high? 

Turkey leading 2-1 at the half, must be the home field advantage...

[Livertool]

12 hours ago, WuDu said:

Turkey leading 2-1 at the half, must be the home field advantage...

Beginning to look like that it is more player material than manager issue?

[WuDu]

1 hour ago, Livertool said:

Beginning to look like that it is more player material than manager issue?

Both. Maybe Süle and Schlotterbeck were not the only reasons for the poor defense in the past...

By the way, Havertz was playing left back yesterday. 

 

[Livertool]

4 hours ago, WuDu said:

By the way, Havertz was playing left back yesterday

Was he really? Noticed it in flashscore lineup but thought it was just fake news.

[WuDu]

On 11/16/2023 at 4:05 AM, WuDu said:

The German NT is playing in Berlin vs Turkey this Saturday. Obviously a home game for our muslim friends, so this could be a LOLsy atmosphere. 

Home sweet home...

19 hours ago, Livertool said:

Was he really?

Yes, Nagelsmann even explained it before the game and praised him afterwards. Cannot say much about it though, as I was watching the 2nd half only while eating dinner. 

[WuDu]

Nice goal by Sabitzer, hopefully Edin took some notes...

[WuDu]

Löw Herr Flick Schlotti Kimmich Julian OUT! 

Bundesliga monsters Sabitzer and Baumgartner with the two goals. 

You can take Sane' out of Schalke, but you cannot take the Schalke out of Sane'. 

 

 

[Livertool]

On 11/21/2023 at 11:52 PM, WuDu said:

Julian OUT! 

And Löw back in? Maybe his sister as assistant coach as it seems to be trend in Ger right now 

[WuDu]

4 hours ago, Livertool said:

And Löw back in? Maybe his sister as assistant coach as it seems to be trend in Ger right now 

Löw was even in attendance getting VIP seats against Turkey. Unbelievable...

BVB-Gladbach 3:2 at the half in good old BVB fashion.

First we're down 0-2 (plus another offside goal) after 30 minutes, getting sliced up by Rocco Siffredi Reitz, then the BVB scores 3 goals in 15 minutes!

@Purps, How about BRANDT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! What an assist to turn this match around!

Reus with two steals before 2 of the goals, JBG with a goal and a assist. Defense? Non existing.

Edited November 25, 2023 by WuDu

[WuDu]

The weeks of truth for the BVB are here:

Tomorrow: In Milan.

Sunday: In Leverkusen.

Next Wednesday: In Stuttgart.

The Saturday after: At home against Red Bull.

Wednesday in 2 weeks: At home against PSG.

Süle is injured and I get the feeling that we're seeing some serious bus parking from Edin over these next games. Against PSG he started Adeyemi and Malen as our strikers, I could see something like this again tomorrow. 3 atb with Bense/Emre Can  could also be a possibility. I get the feeling that these will be ugly games.