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Does this action-packed poker seem normal for the common player?


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Posted (edited)

I know that many, many thousands of players have reacted to online poker, mostly how it seems rigged, set up for big hands, and the endless runner-runner situations.

I've played live poker for 25 years and took a brake from online poker years ago after shortly regarding the whole thing as a badly directed joke.

I have now tried it again for some days after playing live for many years, and here we go again...

Runner-runner, monster vs monster, straights and flushes laid out between three of a kind, big stacks winning 8 out of 10 hands, players who cant loose no matter what etc...

Math and stats do not seem to matter online.

Its not just me, I also see the outcome for other players, and I often laugh out loud to myself because its so far from the reality of live poker and almost predictable in a way.

I know that there are 10 times more played hands online etc., but just twice as many hands would be enough to start wondering.

It just happens over and over and over and over again. If just one card in the deck can save someone, the online poker RNG seems to randomly find it to many times...

I have to ask, does this really seem normal and credible to most of you? If yes, have you played live poker and seen how far from reality online poker is? 

Just asking. Not going after another "rigged-thread" here. I truly wonder about this. Can someone explain this to me?

Is this truly poker in its purest, caotich and rawest form where the best players win in the end and the losers rant of unfair games? Or does this brake the boundaries of common sense and probablities too many times compared to real life? Feel free to educate me. 🙂

 

The main reason I actually don't think this is rigged, its because it seems so over-the-top manipulated and set-up that no one would buy into it unless this is actually how poker is by simply increasing the speed of the game...

Edited by Howlett1979
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https://www.primedope.com/poker-variance-calculator/

https://www.primedope.com/tournament-variance-calculator/

Just wanna say live poker is more like a land turtle and online poker is more like a rabbit, they are both animals but different. Apples and Pears if you will.

One thing I know is that we as humans for some reason have a hard time being real with ourselves.

I guess from a numbers point of view most of us will have a reality check once the new loyalty system and stat gathering gets introduced.

From a statistical point of view, there is nothing impossible. You can lose with AA or any hand 99 or 100 times from 100 in a row or not, the fact it's highly improbable doesn't mean it's impossible. Most of us have a hard time with rationality because we are emotional beings. Heck look around in the society and you will soon realize that we live in an emotionally fueled chaotic reality. 

I can only tell you this if you don't like/agree with something you can always don't partake, but the best thing for a quality of life is to focus on what makes you happy if it's playing the game do so and try improving at it, sooner or later you will win if you are better than your competition.

Everyone is so obsessed with making it these days that they forget to enjoy the process or live a life.

GL&HF! 😘

 

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Posted (edited)

Thanks for your reply.

I have seen most of these videos and for me there are still some problems here.

1. Yes, the speed is higher, but that should simply not make a good player below avarage, and a bad player a big winner. The same odds should apply, but sadly and obviously they do not.

2. "Nothing is impossible" is just as valid for religious claims as for the claim that online poker is random and fair. My claim can be "online poker is rigged", then you say "prove it" and I say "nothing is impossible". And around we go...

My claim is that from a statistical point of view, the things happening online is not impossible, but far from common or realistic. I do not see that the best players win, simple as that. I see bad players win, over and over, like if math, statistics and RNG's do not work the same way in this digital world. If someone has only played online they will have no clue to how unrealistic online poker actually is.

That being said, the online community is packed full with clueless morons that plays poker likes its a slot-machine. I do NOT see more serious players, like one video claims. All-in, all-in, all-in... Does this work in real life? Not often, but to some degree. Does it work online? Hell yes, and in the most incredible ways and against all odds. The defenders of online poker will call it "bad beats", while a good player will call it ridicilous when it goes past a certain point. You have to understand that tens of thousands of players do not react to improbable outcomes every now and then, they react to the endless amount of them online.

And one "phenomenon" is so repated online that if players dont see it, they must be blind or in denial:

When the biggest stack face one of the smallest stacks, he gets what he needs on the table in 80-90% of the showdowns. There are no mathematical or statistical ways around it, other than the religious claim that "nothing is impossible". 

For me, the justification for all the "TV-moments" on online poker is rather weak. If something is highly improbable, then there are major reasons to either reject it as nonsense or demand proof for the claim that it's belivable. Online poker-defenders seem to often turn this problem upside-down.

To put it in other words, its not the players responibility to prove if there is any foul play at work. Its the provider of the software that has to prove that their product is fair and trustworthy if tens of thousands players do not trust it from their experience and observations. You ask, why should we not trust it? I ask, why should we?

I am off course waiting for someone to ask "why would they risk being called out for foul play"? Well, actually they do not risk anything. They are providers of addiction and gambling from unregulated islands and countries. Who would shut them down? Look at Dieselgate and Volkswagon. Same logic there, but they still did it and with higher risk in countries where there are regulations, and they are still selling cars like there is no tomorrow. This happens all the time in big business. The risk is worth the payoff. We are talking billions here. The more action, the more money flows quicker through the system in the gambling world.

These are still just my thoughts and examples, but still something to take into consideration.

I am not saying "don't trust online poker". I am simply asking, why do you thrust it when there are so many improbable outcomes over and over again around these digital tables?

 

Edited by Howlett1979
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14 hours ago, Howlett1979 said:

Thanks for your reply.

I have seen most of these videos and for me there are still some problems here.

1. Yes, the speed is higher, but that should simply not make a good player below avarage, and a bad player a big winner. The same odds should apply, but sadly and obviously they do not.

2. "Nothing is impossible" is just as valid for religious claims as for the claim that online poker is random and fair. My claim can be "online poker is rigged", then you say "prove it" and I say "nothing is impossible". And around we go...

My claim is that from a statistical point of view, the things happening online is not impossible, but far from common or realistic. I do not see that the best players win, simple as that. I see bad players win, over and over, like if math, statistics and RNG's do not work the same way in this digital world. If someone has only played online they will have no clue to how unrealistic online poker actually is.

That being said, the online community is packed full with clueless morons that plays poker likes its a slot-machine. I do NOT see more serious players, like one video claims. All-in, all-in, all-in... Does this work in real life? Not often, but to some degree. Does it work online? Hell yes, and in the most incredible ways and against all odds. The defenders of online poker will call it "bad beats", while a good player will call it ridicilous when it goes past a certain point. You have to understand that tens of thousands of players do not react to improbable outcomes every now and then, they react to the endless amount of them online.

And one "phenomenon" is so repated online that if players dont see it, they must be blind or in denial:

When the biggest stack face one of the smallest stacks, he gets what he needs on the table in 80-90% of the showdowns. There are no mathematical or statistical ways around it, other than the religious claim that "nothing is impossible". 

For me, the justification for all the "TV-moments" on online poker is rather weak. If something is highly improbable, then there are major reasons to either reject it as nonsense or demand proof for the claim that it's belivable. Online poker-defenders seem to often turn this problem upside-down.

To put it in other words, its not the players responibility to prove if there is any foul play at work. Its the provider of the software that has to prove that their product is fair and trustworthy if tens of thousands players do not trust it from their experience and observations. You ask, why should we not trust it? I ask, why should we?

I am off course waiting for someone to ask "why would they risk being called out for foul play"? Well, actually they do not risk anything. They are providers of addiction and gambling from unregulated islands and countries. Who would shut them down? Look at Dieselgate and Volkswagon. Same logic there, but they still did it and with higher risk in countries where there are regulations, and they are still selling cars like there is no tomorrow. This happens all the time in big business. The risk is worth the payoff. We are talking billions here. The more action, the more money flows quicker through the system in the gambling world.

These are still just my thoughts and examples, but still something to take into consideration.

I am not saying "don't trust online poker". I am simply asking, why do you thrust it when there are so many improbable outcomes over and over again around these digital tables?

 

Hi Howlett!

I appreciate your comments and concerns. As a fellow player who have gone through many bad beats;)

 

I wonder where do you get your statistics from however? Big stacks gets what they need 80-90% of the time... I don't think the argument holds up when you just throw in a random number like this, which I'm not sure can be supported with any evidence.

Sure, there are lots of bad beats online, but thats because we play a lot of hands, so they seem to happen all the time.

Also, what do you count as a bad beat? 67 vs 33 percent? 80 vs 20 percent? Even getting a runner runner straight is quite important for your chances winning a hand. Of course, it may only be 5-10 percent difference, but that can change a lot. Rather than being 80-20, the situation may be more 70-30. This of course feels very bad for the player who had the best hand, but the opponent did in fact have a 30 per cent chance of winning the hand.

If you add in that the player in the lead may not bet high enough to protect their hand, it may give the opponent the 'right' odds to call.

 

Of course, bad players often call when they shouldn't, which leads to more bad beats being realised. In higher quality games, the opponents know how to fold at the right time, and don't realise their 'luck'.

Therefore the worse the players, the more bad beats will occur. But the worse the players, the better the games. So, as frustrating as a bad beat can be, it's best to take it with a smile and say 'nice hand', gg, good luck, to your opponent.

 

Thats my 5 cents.

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Hi.

Thanks for the reply.

I am not so bothered with bad beats. I am more conserned over the overflow of "TV moments" that online poker is providing. 

Bad beats are common in bough live and online poker, and thats part of the game. Online, though, the probabilities are hard to calculate since there often are no ends to the "magical outcomes" around the table.

Its like its supposed to be this neverending action-packed gambling machine, wich is really addictive. 

Since you ask, to me a bad beat is when AA is beaten by K-9o or a flush with A on top is rivered away with a house. Its too much of this nonsense online.

Straights are starting to feel more common than two pairs.

As for the big stack winning, its what I am used to see online, and this is someting many, many thousand players are seeing as well.

I do not know how I can get statistics on the matter... but again, the biggest stack will and can call more, so maybe thats the reason to give it the benefit of the doubt.

What kind of tournaments will you recommend to meet more serious players?

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26 minutes ago, Howlett1979 said:

Hi.

Thanks for the reply.

I am not so bothered with bad beats. I am more conserned over the overflow of "TV moments" that online poker is providing. 

Bad beats are common in bough live and online poker, and thats part of the game. Online, though, the probabilities are hard to calculate since there often are no ends to the "magical outcomes" around the table.

Its like its supposed to be this neverending action-packed gambling machine, wich is really addictive. 

Since you ask, to me a bad beat is when AA is beaten by K-9o or a flush with A on top is rivered away with a house. Its too much of this nonsense online.

Straights are starting to feel more common than two pairs.

As for the big stack winning, its what I am used to see online, and this is someting many, many thousand players are seeing as well.

I do not know how I can get statistics on the matter... but again, the biggest stack will and can call more, so maybe thats the reason to give it the benefit of the doubt.

What kind of tournaments will you recommend to meet more serious players?

AA vs K9o, yeah certainly a bad beat, but not impossible. K9o has 12.1-13.7% to win allin preflop. To check if this is actually occurring we need to find out if the K9o is actually winning more than this. If it's winning 20% of the time, something is fishy. If it's winning only 8%, something is also wrong...

Fortunately there are people who check that poker sites generate cards randomly, and they haven't found these things (it would be really bad for a poker site, as people wouldn't trust it and stop playing. They earn more by dealing fair). They check if each and every hand win as much as they should in allin situations, for example.

 

I know it's hard for you to find these numbers, but right now you're just telling us to take your word, which doesn't prove anything. There are thousands of people who feel one thing or another, but that doesn't necessarily make them right, even if they think they are on to something.

 

If you want to play against world class players, just join the high roller games on poker stars, or any big site. Just don't expect to win too much 😉 I prefer playing against fish, even though it means I suffer lots of bad beats 😄 

 

Best of luck in your games!

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Posted (edited)

Hi, and again thanks for your reply.

For me, I see «bad beats» too much in regards to the odds and math.

Like you say, right now we are only talking from our experience and what we see.

This is a major problem, so I have been asking for data that will give me a peace of mind. Sadly, those who «protect» online poker does not seem to have them. If not, then what is the claim that this is fair buildt upon?

Are there any data somewhere to show if f.ex. K8o wins more or less than 8%?
 

What I am saying, and have said all along, where is the proof that online poker is legit?

Edited by Howlett1979
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Hi Howlett,

I'm not sure what you are asking. As poker players we can all relate to your arguments, without bad beats we'd all be millionaires by now 🤑😉  but are you asking whether poker sites deliberately rig the games in favor of certain players, plays, situtations? Or are you asking if true random can really be generated artificially? I'm no mathematician or programmer or philosepher so have no idea. Maybe, maybe not 🤔🤷‍♂️ 

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Posted (edited)

In essense, I am seeing too much nonsense to just let it go unsaid, and I know thousands of other player see it too.

This looks like its made to create action beyond any reason and logic.

If someone claims this to be random and fair, then I am asking for any kind of proof. Please show me! 

Odds seems to be irrelevant, but as always "nothing is impossible". Well, that is truly the most certain fact in here.

I'm sorry, I have just played another couple of tournaments, and this nonsense cant be for real. 😂

I have never seen so many houses winning over flushes, three of a kind beaten by straights, monsters beaten by J-10o (in wich he gets the full house), 44 winning over QQ with a flush (!), AK losing to J8o WITH the A on the table off course and other endless examples that are just ridicilous.

Don't get me wrong, it happens once in a while, but in here its over and over again. Its a maniac players paradise. 🥳

Can I prove it? No. Because there is NO stat-gathering anywhere! This is 2021, for crying out loud. 😆 

Sure it can be fun, and off course this kind of poker is really addictive, but I am really starting to wonder if thats the whole idea? 😉

How many sites offer players to look at stats and see previous hands? Most of them. In here... nothing! Why on earth is that?

If there is one thing online poker truly should have an advantage of, its being able to make you keep track and look at data from your sessions.  

I am starting to understand why that is not available in here. 😁

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@Howlett1979 you're throwing around accusations with absolutely nothing to back it, and now it's guilty until proven innocent. Firstly, you've got a way too small sample size of hands to even comment anything like this, and your perceived reality is very far from the actual reality that is hand distribution and winning hands. You're claiming that a certified and licensed product is rigged, and you're basing it on a small and meaningless sample, so there's not much points in commenting further, but anyway:

The RNG has been certified by ecogra and we have nothing to win from rigging the game against certain players - it's still not clear to me exactly what is it you're claiming nor what the motivations behind it would be.

Unibet poker was designed with the recreational player in mind - protecting the recreationals - and that's why you can't export data on opponents nor get data on the player pool. You can view your own hands in the hand history. Just Google "Unibet poker philosophy" or similar and you'll find plenty of articles going into this in more depth - there's some content on the website as well and many old posts here on the community. So it makes perfect sense, even if "it's 2021, for crying out loud".

We'll soon be introducing a tool which will provide more data on your gameplay, targeted at the worse players and helping them improve their game. Anonymized hand history is also something we've been discussing several times, but not likely to be introduced anytime soon (use search functionality on here if you want a bit more info).

If you truly believe the rules of poker don't apply, the solution is simple: stop playing. I'd actually strongly advise you to do so, at least if you have got any intention of being a winning player, as that requires a very different mindset.

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Posted (edited)

I appreciate your response, even if you strongly disaprove of what I am writing.

I am mostly throwing around questions, but yes, my opinion is that there is too much "action" going on in here. Could I be wrong? Yes. Have I been given a solid reason to think otherwise? No. Do I want to believe that this is totaly random and fair? Yes!

Unibet is the one claiming that this is random. I am just asking you to show me some data to support it. Is that taking it too far? Am I unreasonable? The question seems to be how a player can check anything or prove/disprove anything when there are no stat-gathering? Is that not called a "catch 22"?

Another thing, I do not believe that there are rigging against anyone. We all sit here and are given one "golden egg" on the flop after another with a few hands in between, that suddenly turns rotten in the most incredible ways. In other words, the odds do not seem to count either in favor or against anyone. Its like a casino where you "almost" win with a very good hand, over and over, and then you suddenly win, but then something totaly insane happens around the corner and someone else gets the win by the act of God. And of course, then its always the losing player that has a bad mindset or just caught a bad beat. "Better luck next time and work on your game".

The problem is that there is not much to work on. According to math and odds the player did everything right, but the 5-10% against the hand just turned 100%... again. This is not just for me, I see the same nonsense other players go through at the tables. Combine this with all the "great hands" at once, and it becomes a complete chaos.

Endless times there are just one or two cards left in the stack to save a fool and he gets it, just to win over hands that are over 90% certain. And yes, it happens live also. My god, it happens! But online it happens way too often in my opinion. I have played poker for 25 years, so I am not talking from total ignorance.

And thats were you are most correct and really hit the nail on the head; My sample size is way to small to have seen so many superior combinations and outcomes around the tables. That means that all the "TV-moments" are too short in between. Its not often you see two sets of three of a kind and a flush at the same time... well, in real life, that is. 

So, are you saying that if I keep playing, all these "TV-moments" will tone down and this will overall become more realistic? Have I really just been too often at the wrong place, at the wrong time in here?

As to being a winning player... well, when odds and math stop making sense, I truly have to change my mindset and play like its a lottery like so many do in here. I am still trying not to, but maybe thats the way to do it? Just close my eyes and roll the dices...

To clearify my point of view, its just sad to see what poker has turned into online. Its a mess of ridicilous outcomes (you simply call them bad beats), to many "super-combinations" at once and terrible players that succeed way too much with terrible odds. In other words, it seems like the "good players" are good for the wrong reasons.

The worst thing, is that most of the real morons you meet online would have been eaten alive and had to go home early in real life, but online they win by the magic touch of the RNG-machine over and over. I wonder why that is? I am sure some youtube-video will explain it...

Edited by Howlett1979
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2 hours ago, Howlett1979 said:

I appreciate your response, even if you strongly disaprove of what I am writing.

I am mostly throwing around questions, but yes, my opinion is that there is too much "action" going on in here. Could I be wrong? Yes. Have I been given a solid reason to think otherwise? No. Do I want to believe that this is totaly random and fair? Yes!

Unibet is the one claiming that this is random. I am just asking you to show me some data to support it. Is that taking it too far? Am I unreasonable? The question seems to be how a player can check anything or prove/disprove anything when there are no stat-gathering? Is that not called a "catch 22"?

Another thing, I do not believe that there are rigging against anyone. We all sit here and are given one "golden egg" on the flop after another with a few hands in between, that suddenly turns rotten in the most incredible ways. In other words, the odds do not seem to count either in favor or against anyone. Its like a casino where you "almost" win with a very good hand, over and over, and then you suddenly win, but then something totaly insane happens around the corner and someone else gets the win by the act of God. And of course, then its always the losing player that has a bad mindset or just caught a bad beat. "Better luck next time and work on your game".

The problem is that there is not much to work on. According to math and odds the player did everything right, but the 5-10% against the hand just turned 100%... again. This is not just for me, I see the same nonsense other players go through at the tables. Combine this with all the "great hands" at once, and it becomes a complete chaos.

Endless times there are just one or two cards left in the stack to save a fool and he gets it, just to win over hands that are over 90% certain. And yes, it happens live also. My god, it happens! But online it happens way too often in my opinion. I have played poker for 25 years, so I am not talking from total ignorance.

And thats were you are most correct and really hit the nail on the head; My sample size is way to small to have seen so many superior combinations and outcomes around the tables. That means that all the "TV-moments" are too short in between. Its not often you see two sets of three of a kind and a flush at the same time... well, in real life, that is. 

So, are you saying that if I keep playing, all these "TV-moments" will tone down and this will overall become more realistic? Have I really just been too often at the wrong place, at the wrong time in here?

As to being a winning player... well, when odds and math stop making sense, I truly have to change my mindset and play like its a lottery like so many do in here. I am still trying not to, but maybe thats the way to do it? Just close my eyes and roll the dices...

To clearify my point of view, its just sad to see what poker has turned into online. Its a mess of ridicilous outcomes (you simply call them bad beats), to many "super-combinations" at once and terrible players that succeed way too much with terrible odds. In other words, it seems like the "good players" are good for the wrong reasons.

The worst thing, is that most of the real morons you meet online would have been eaten alive and had to go home early in real life, but online they win by the magic touch of the RNG-machine over and over. I wonder why that is? I am sure some youtube-video will explain it...

If this is how you view online poker, I cannot in any way understand why you keep playing... 

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10 hours ago, Howlett1979 said:

And thats were you are most correct and really hit the nail on the head; My sample size is way to small to have seen so many superior combinations and outcomes around the tables. That means that all the "TV-moments" are too short in between. Its not often you see two sets of three of a kind and a flush at the same time... well, in real life, that is. 

 

😄

Not exactly what I meant, but think you know that. Your sample size is way too small to be commenting on any of this: you simply haven't played enough hands to start talking about irregularities. That is unless you're saying an 90/10 is in fact 10/90 online, in which case your sample is okay, but if that's what you think, I really believe you should stop playing, if you're playing poker to win money long-term.

I think everything else in your post has already been addressed and don't see much point in continuing here. 

If you want to show you're serious, just go through all your hands and post a summary here with the aspects you find suspicious (please post the actual data, not your perception when going through the hands).

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I've played over 2.350.000 hands at the Unibet cashgame tables since 2014.
I've seen and experienced every possible bad beat and setup.
Including losing a 400bb pot with a straight flush 😅

I can tell you that the only thing that is rigged is the thread starter's selective memory.
Live poker is slow as fuck. Offcourse nothing happens if you're playing 38 hands per hour. 

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  • 2 weeks later...

Pretty tedious to read all this..

Original poster clearly you have some kind of personality disorder and you should self exclude yourself from online poker immediately.

All of the poker sites that have a reasonable amount of players and have been around for 10+ years are fair, they don’t need to scam you when you have Aces and give your money to another player or bot, why? Because they want you to keep coming back and paying them rake.

I actually play unibet poker mtts (among other sites) as a full time job and I can say that this is not only a fair site, but it is very soft games, very small fields and therefore very low variance. If you can’t see that then you are one of the ‘bad players’ you are talking about and don’t even realise it. 

please remove tinfoil hat 

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Playing online for many years. Last Monday we went live. Unbelievable situations. Couldn't believe. Had spades, someone had better spades, had full, the other had tris, all in and he catches one outer. Had kk all in pf, lost vs 88.. And so on all night. 

Im staying online after this:) 

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From my point of view online/live doesn't matter, it's still poker. The only difference is the speed of the game and some strategic adjustments. You can't skip losing, it's a part of the game. There are many forms of poker, some more volatile than others. The profit comes at the end, not at the beginning. You only have control over how much volume you put on the table and outside of the table. If you also follow BRM it's improbable you will lose forever but not impossible.

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Nice answer @FreedoM   By the way, are you having an identity crisis, you seem to be changing your avatar more often than I change my mind. The main good point is you got rid of that incredibly annoying multi-coloured flashing one.  🤮

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"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"

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Posted (edited)
On 6/16/2021 at 11:42 AM, Stubbe-Unibet said:

If you want to show you're serious, just go through all your hands and post a summary here with the aspects you find suspicious (please post the actual data, not your perception when going through the hands).

How can my hands alone prove or disproove anything in this discussion? If I could see all the open hands around and on the table, then I would have no problem posting it for you and actually show you what I am talking about. Sadly, Unibet does not provide this service...

 

On 6/29/2021 at 5:12 AM, SeizedProfessional said:

Original poster clearly you have some kind of personality disorder and you should self exclude yourself from online poker immediately.

I'm sorry, but Ad Homiem-nonsense does not give you any points in a discussion, besides the common "thumbs up" from the usual crowd in here.

Saying someone has a persononaliy disorder because they ask qustions that no one in here seems to have any really valid answers to, is just proving my point.

The only ones who seem to have the burden of proof in here are those who question online poker. I wonder why that is? The ones making the claims, from the moment you walk in the door, is Unibet and their cheering crowd. If you are so certain that this is random, then show me why and lets end this "tedious thread"...

 

On 6/29/2021 at 6:48 PM, FreedoM said:

From my point of view online/live doesn't matter, it's still poker. The only difference is the speed of the game and some strategic adjustments. You can't skip losing, it's a part of the game. There are many forms of poker, some more volatile than others. The profit comes at the end, not at the beginning. You only have control over how much volume you put on the table and outside of the table. If you also follow BRM it's improbable you will lose forever but not impossible.

I hope you are right. My experience is very different, sadly...

 

On 6/21/2021 at 6:10 PM, DixonKuntz said:

Now that our borders have opened up, I really, really, really want to go to Howlett's casino where I will be "eaten alive".

Why? Are you one of those real morons one would meet online? All-in, all-in, all-in...? If not, you will probably do fine. 👌😉

Edited by Howlett1979
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@Howlett1979 'Saying someone has a persononaliy disorder because they ask qustions that no one in here seems to have any really valid answers to, is just proving my point.'

what is the question? why are you losing? your probably bad at poker! this isnt the 90s, games are tougher now. While its completely useless analysing your 500 hands to see if the whole site is rigged against you, what we could do would be for you to share your screen while you play, and then decide whether you are just playing poorly. If you want to find out which it is, feel free to message me and i can try and help you. 

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, SeizedProfessional said:

what is the question? why are you losing? your probably bad at poker! this isnt the 90s, games are tougher now. While its completely useless analysing your 500 hands to see if the whole site is rigged against you, what we could do would be for you to share your screen while you play, and then decide whether you are just playing poorly. If you want to find out which it is, feel free to message me and i can try and help you. 

My questions are posted several times. The topic is a question on its own, so I am truly surprised that you have not seen them.

Believe me, I have played more than 500 hands online. As I have said, I played online several years ago. 

No, I am not asking why I am losing, since you seem to asume that this is the issue at hand. Loosing is quite alright when it makes sense. I, on the other hand, react to what I am seeing around the tables online, even if I win or lose, or have folded. As I said, does this "action packed" gambling bonanza seem logical and rational to you? Do we simply speed up live poker, and suddenly math and odds are out the window?

For me, it seems impossible for anyone to play with odds and skills when "nothing" seems to ever be good enough. You hit top two pair, the someone seems to have a straight or a flush. You have the flush, then someone seem to hit a house on the river. You get your three of a kind and suddenly a runner-runner flush comes along etc etc. Yes, this happens in poker, but when its over and over and over again, you have to start wondering if these neverending "TV-moments" are truly random.

If you look on youtube at the top 5 "TV-moments" in live poker, you will probably already have seen them all several times in one online-tournament. 

The fact that I observe this and question it, not just on my behalf, does not make me sick in the head, bad at poker or a poor loser. I am just asking for some stats on the games in full, and the outcomes, to see if this is realistic. If it turns out to be truly random, then online poker really does call for a completly different mindset and tactics, especially since I see good player lose against all odds over and over. I can even say this after a shorter amount of time online. One would think I had to play way more to witness so many "special moments"...?  I can basically throw everything I know, from 25 years of playing, right in the garbage. I will probably also have to take you up on your offer. Thanks. 🙂

So, what do you mean when you say that the games are thougher now? I tend to agree, but probably for different reasons.

Edited by Howlett1979
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i assume anyone that is complaining or questioning the legitimacy of the site and the runouts is going to be losing, winning players are going to be happy because they are winning and therefore wont write this kind of stuff. As for games being tougher and playing more aggresively these days it is because there is more information available such as : youtube content, online courses, solvers etc - its not a guessing game any more - we have definitive answers to a bunch of questions that we didnt 10-15 years ago. Peoples ranges are wider and thats why they turn up with more crazy hands in crazy spots - if you want to message me your email i can try to help you see what is really going on mate

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