Howlett1979

Now... I will leave you with this. As I said, I played a few hours each day from 12-14 august when I was in corona-quaranteen after reading your reply. You can check my hand history if there are doubts. I played Hexapro for two simple reasons: 1. You get to see more hands, in that you can see more open cards on the table. 2. There are fewer players, which should make it harder to see too many "TV-moments". There are countless folded hands in between, so I can only imagine what this would look like if all hands where played. I focused mainly on the best TV-moments and the straights, but that does not mean that many flushes and other nonsense was absent. Its just limits to how many pictures I can, and bother, to post. I just had to put in two pictures where a player takes bough me and the other player out in almost the exact same way: a 5 on the hand and two 5's on the table - twice within just a few hands. Not bad... As I have said, this nonsense seems to have no end, and the Random Straight Generator seems to work just fine. I have never seen anything remotly similar when playing live, so no... I do not think for a minute that this is totally random. I can't. Sorry. I have nothing more to add to this discussion, so think what you want about this and make your own opinion. To me, this is not real poker, but I am sure the usual crowd will defend it. They always do...

Convince me with what? So far, I have only heard "your wrong" and "you cant proove that this is not random"... Are you saying that most online players rely on numbers? You must be joking. Online players have mostly learned to rely on heavy bidding and aggresion, regardless of their starting-hand. Overbid... overbid... overbid... all-in... all-in... all-in... Nobody has said that you care about the individual. You care about getting people addicted, spending money and coming back over and over again. Seems like action-packed products where we all hit the numbers once in a while would be the way to do that, dont you think? "Oh, how close that was!! I had the flush and he had the full house!! Can you believe it!?! Exciting!! Here we go again. Now I got three of a kind!. Maybe I can win!! Awww... he had the straight. That was close! Deal again! Yes! Now I won with a straight and he called all-in since he had top two pairs! I am winning! I rule at poker! Lets play more!!!"... Could it be a reason for the fact that your RNG-poker is far more like a slot machine than a card game? But, as someone said "at least its not boring"... Does anyting that could show something in regards to your products not being fair mean shit? Just in here or total over 20+ years of playing? If you mean in here, don't you work at Unibet and can find that out? I will show you how bias it is a little bit further down. Its a figure of speach, but still not too far from the truth. I took the challenge and played a few hours each day for 3 days. You can see the result in the next post. Yes, it must be all in our heads... Please, disregard the countless amounts of experienced players that have already reacted to this nonsense worldwide. We are all crazy... Yes, the action-packed casino-poker is mind-numbingly obvious, and its becoming predictable that whathever monsterhand someone have, the RNG (randomly, off course) will make sure that another player at your table will probably experience the same. This actually makes it impossible to rely on skill and numbers to play in here. Its works like a slot-machine, nothing else... And yes, I also win on the slots at times. We all do. And the more we play, the more money your company makes. As I have said, it cant stand this nonsense even when I win. It hurts to see how ruined poker has become. This casino-poker, combined with headless all-in morons that are clearly addicted and love this action-packed nonsense, makes it a mess. Do I see bad players win more than they should? Yes. Is it luck whem they win and bad beats when the lose? Sorry, I suspect not. In live poker these all-in morons would mostly lose. In here, they get results with their cards that are against all odds. Do I think that you favor certain players? No. I think you juice up the game all togheter. By doing this, no one can play their hands based on odds and math. As you said, you dont care who win or lose. You need people to keep playing, so you keep them entertained and not bored, and make them feel that winning feeling. If this was relied on skills and odds, too many would miss that winning feeling and walk away. In here, that will not happen. Instead, and way too often, you see three of a kind and two pairs being beaten by straights/flushes over and over, flushes taken out by houses and all other kinds of "winning-hands" all at once. The TV-moments just dont stop. And anyone that has played poker with a deck of cards know that this is not how the game works. That is why you often "play against the player, not his cards" when you play live, simply because straights and flushes do not come falling from the sky every 5 minutes, and especially not at the same time as one of the other players at you table happens to have three of a kind or top two-pairs. It happens once in a while, not over and over. My point is, that is does not seem to matter if you are good or bad. Math and odds dont matter online. You leave it to the RGN and "role the dice" and the outcomes are beyond any reason and logic. But, at least its not boring...

We can probably agree that online-poker has mostly ruined poker as a skill game. If you combine this "straight-generator" they call RNG with thousands of all in-morons its just a mess... The funny thing is that pro's are telling players on YouTube that straights are not common to get, so we should not chase after them. Well, in here you don't have to. They come all by them self, over and over and over... In other words, what happens in here are the complete opposite of what pro's are saying. Go figure. I have never seen so many straights in my life as I have seen around these tables. I would have to play live for a whole year to see the same amount of straights as 12 hours online will provide. A straight seems far more common than three of a kind or even top pair. And why is that? "Cause the game is faster online"? Please... You have to be totally clueless to buy into this casino-poker crap. But, at least it gave me a lot of good laughs at first since when it became obvious and predictable after a while. To bad that lately it has just become boring and anoying, even when I profit from it. No, keep enjoying this casino-gambling, cause that is what this is... pure, mindless gambling, and the only "skill" you need is to over-bid like a crazy idiot. The RNG will take care of the rest... probably by giving at least on of the players at the table a brilliant straight. 🤗

Don't know why I bother to answer since you clearly has taken the role as the "smart-ass" on this forum. And how easy is'nt it to get your "likes" and "lol's" from the regular crowd. 💪 Good for you! Congrats! 🤗 But... you actually make a good point, even if you realize it or not. Yes! This has been asked before. Thousands of time. Ever wondered why? There is a reason for it. Let it linger a bit in your head. PS: Every other forum also have a user that comes in with his useless and boring "funny", sarcastic remarks just like yourself, so if you're missing something original in here, then start off by not acting as the usual internet-cliche' 💤💤... Rather keep on enjoying the "Random Straight Generator" of online-poker! 👍 Again, and for the last time, where does it say that this happens against me? Despite your act as the forum-psychologist, you really dont pay much attention to what is actually written, do you? Talk about irony... 😉

Maybe I am reading you incorrect, but this is the closest I have come to some sort of aknowledge that this is not ordinary poker. Its some sort of «casino-poker», or TV-poker, as you call it. We all see it, but those who have only played online thinks that this the real deal. Others know better, and that is why so many people react negative to itand leave it. Those pictures are not bad beats, they show common online-poker as we all know it. Packed with «winning hands» to bet on. Its highly addictive and fun for those who can afford it, but in the long run it has ruined poker as a skill-game and people get hooked for the wrong reasons. And, with addiction comes denial, wich this forum has clearly illustrated. Sorry, but people defend it blindly in here. Those few pictures are nothing. I have gathered stacks of them in just days of playing. Besides, every player in here knows what they see day after day. You call them «bad beats, others call them highly unlikely outcomes, and rightly so. One would assume that these TV-moments, unlikely as they are, would be appear further apart, but they do not. Being positive and thinking you have a good hand, is what will make you go broke in here. The winners are those who bid like idiots and scare those who know the odds and math into folding. To me, this TV-poker is not fun, and mindset will not change anything. Its nothing more than pure gambling. I’d rather play the slot-machines. At least we know what they really are. I like poker as a skill game, not as a digital RNG-party where straights are more common than a top pair. So, enjoy your TV-poker, and thanks for a kind response in the end, but I have had enough of this. And no, they will not change it. Why would they? To summon up my thread: This is online poker, not real poker:

No, I am actually not losing that much. I profit from these TV-moments also. I have changed lots of things in my game-style, but not by using math and odds. Those aspects of poker truly dont seem to count as much anymore after the digital RNG came along. 🙂 Yes, the game has changed after online-poker, but I think we see different changes. Thanks though, I will think about it, but the thing that is going on are in the pictures I posted above. Again, they are gathered within just a few hours of playing and they are only a few examples I saved. To me, they show common and ordinary online-poker. I have never seen so many set-ups like these when playing live, even after days or weeks of playing. 🙂

Yes, players that go all-in 40-50 % of the time are not the smartest players in the world. Disagree? You dont have to have any skill to do that, so me saying I am better than "all-in morons", or that they suck at poker, does not make me gods gift to anything. My point was that online they seem to win more than they should. Seems like you did not read what I wrote. And, for the houndreth time, its not about winning or losing, its about the non-stop "TV-moments" going on... again and again and again... Funny, by the way, that you only arrest me for insults. This is from just a few hours of playing. There are lots and lots more from this short period of time, but I came to a point where I thought that if this does not raise any eyebrowse, then noting will. Of course, "this does not count, because my hand history is to small", but that is the most remarkable of all. You can actually gather all this nonsense in no-time. So, the conclusion must be that this is most likely random, simply because you cant make this stuff up... 👌😁 Ps: Straights seem to be the RNG-speaciality. 😉

My questions are posted several times. The topic is a question on its own, so I am truly surprised that you have not seen them. Believe me, I have played more than 500 hands online. As I have said, I played online several years ago. No, I am not asking why I am losing, since you seem to asume that this is the issue at hand. Loosing is quite alright when it makes sense. I, on the other hand, react to what I am seeing around the tables online, even if I win or lose, or have folded. As I said, does this "action packed" gambling bonanza seem logical and rational to you? Do we simply speed up live poker, and suddenly math and odds are out the window? For me, it seems impossible for anyone to play with odds and skills when "nothing" seems to ever be good enough. You hit top two pair, the someone seems to have a straight or a flush. You have the flush, then someone seem to hit a house on the river. You get your three of a kind and suddenly a runner-runner flush comes along etc etc. Yes, this happens in poker, but when its over and over and over again, you have to start wondering if these neverending "TV-moments" are truly random. If you look on youtube at the top 5 "TV-moments" in live poker, you will probably already have seen them all several times in one online-tournament. The fact that I observe this and question it, not just on my behalf, does not make me sick in the head, bad at poker or a poor loser. I am just asking for some stats on the games in full, and the outcomes, to see if this is realistic. If it turns out to be truly random, then online poker really does call for a completly different mindset and tactics, especially since I see good player lose against all odds over and over. I can even say this after a shorter amount of time online. One would think I had to play way more to witness so many "special moments"...? I can basically throw everything I know, from 25 years of playing, right in the garbage. I will probably also have to take you up on your offer. Thanks. 🙂 So, what do you mean when you say that the games are thougher now? I tend to agree, but probably for different reasons.

How can my hands alone prove or disproove anything in this discussion? If I could see all the open hands around and on the table, then I would have no problem posting it for you and actually show you what I am talking about. Sadly, Unibet does not provide this service... I'm sorry, but Ad Homiem-nonsense does not give you any points in a discussion, besides the common "thumbs up" from the usual crowd in here. Saying someone has a persononaliy disorder because they ask qustions that no one in here seems to have any really valid answers to, is just proving my point. The only ones who seem to have the burden of proof in here are those who question online poker. I wonder why that is? The ones making the claims, from the moment you walk in the door, is Unibet and their cheering crowd. If you are so certain that this is random, then show me why and lets end this "tedious thread"... I hope you are right. My experience is very different, sadly... Why? Are you one of those real morons one would meet online? All-in, all-in, all-in...? If not, you will probably do fine. 👌😉

I appreciate your response, even if you strongly disaprove of what I am writing. I am mostly throwing around questions, but yes, my opinion is that there is too much "action" going on in here. Could I be wrong? Yes. Have I been given a solid reason to think otherwise? No. Do I want to believe that this is totaly random and fair? Yes! Unibet is the one claiming that this is random. I am just asking you to show me some data to support it. Is that taking it too far? Am I unreasonable? The question seems to be how a player can check anything or prove/disprove anything when there are no stat-gathering? Is that not called a "catch 22"? Another thing, I do not believe that there are rigging against anyone. We all sit here and are given one "golden egg" on the flop after another with a few hands in between, that suddenly turns rotten in the most incredible ways. In other words, the odds do not seem to count either in favor or against anyone. Its like a casino where you "almost" win with a very good hand, over and over, and then you suddenly win, but then something totaly insane happens around the corner and someone else gets the win by the act of God. And of course, then its always the losing player that has a bad mindset or just caught a bad beat. "Better luck next time and work on your game". The problem is that there is not much to work on. According to math and odds the player did everything right, but the 5-10% against the hand just turned 100%... again. This is not just for me, I see the same nonsense other players go through at the tables. Combine this with all the "great hands" at once, and it becomes a complete chaos. Endless times there are just one or two cards left in the stack to save a fool and he gets it, just to win over hands that are over 90% certain. And yes, it happens live also. My god, it happens! But online it happens way too often in my opinion. I have played poker for 25 years, so I am not talking from total ignorance. And thats were you are most correct and really hit the nail on the head; My sample size is way to small to have seen so many superior combinations and outcomes around the tables. That means that all the "TV-moments" are too short in between. Its not often you see two sets of three of a kind and a flush at the same time... well, in real life, that is. So, are you saying that if I keep playing, all these "TV-moments" will tone down and this will overall become more realistic? Have I really just been too often at the wrong place, at the wrong time in here? As to being a winning player... well, when odds and math stop making sense, I truly have to change my mindset and play like its a lottery like so many do in here. I am still trying not to, but maybe thats the way to do it? Just close my eyes and roll the dices... To clearify my point of view, its just sad to see what poker has turned into online. Its a mess of ridicilous outcomes (you simply call them bad beats), to many "super-combinations" at once and terrible players that succeed way too much with terrible odds. In other words, it seems like the "good players" are good for the wrong reasons. The worst thing, is that most of the real morons you meet online would have been eaten alive and had to go home early in real life, but online they win by the magic touch of the RNG-machine over and over. I wonder why that is? I am sure some youtube-video will explain it...

In essense, I am seeing too much nonsense to just let it go unsaid, and I know thousands of other player see it too. This looks like its made to create action beyond any reason and logic. If someone claims this to be random and fair, then I am asking for any kind of proof. Please show me! Odds seems to be irrelevant, but as always "nothing is impossible". Well, that is truly the most certain fact in here. I'm sorry, I have just played another couple of tournaments, and this nonsense cant be for real. 😂 I have never seen so many houses winning over flushes, three of a kind beaten by straights, monsters beaten by J-10o (in wich he gets the full house), 44 winning over QQ with a flush (!), AK losing to J8o WITH the A on the table off course and other endless examples that are just ridicilous. Don't get me wrong, it happens once in a while, but in here its over and over again. Its a maniac players paradise. 🥳 Can I prove it? No. Because there is NO stat-gathering anywhere! This is 2021, for crying out loud. 😆 Sure it can be fun, and off course this kind of poker is really addictive, but I am really starting to wonder if thats the whole idea? 😉 How many sites offer players to look at stats and see previous hands? Most of them. In here... nothing! Why on earth is that? If there is one thing online poker truly should have an advantage of, its being able to make you keep track and look at data from your sessions. I am starting to understand why that is not available in here. 😁

Hi, and again thanks for your reply. For me, I see «bad beats» too much in regards to the odds and math. Like you say, right now we are only talking from our experience and what we see. This is a major problem, so I have been asking for data that will give me a peace of mind. Sadly, those who «protect» online poker does not seem to have them. If not, then what is the claim that this is fair buildt upon? Are there any data somewhere to show if f.ex. K8o wins more or less than 8%? What I am saying, and have said all along, where is the proof that online poker is legit?

Hi. Thanks for the reply. I am not so bothered with bad beats. I am more conserned over the overflow of "TV moments" that online poker is providing. Bad beats are common in bough live and online poker, and thats part of the game. Online, though, the probabilities are hard to calculate since there often are no ends to the "magical outcomes" around the table. Its like its supposed to be this neverending action-packed gambling machine, wich is really addictive. Since you ask, to me a bad beat is when AA is beaten by K-9o or a flush with A on top is rivered away with a house. Its too much of this nonsense online. Straights are starting to feel more common than two pairs. As for the big stack winning, its what I am used to see online, and this is someting many, many thousand players are seeing as well. I do not know how I can get statistics on the matter... but again, the biggest stack will and can call more, so maybe thats the reason to give it the benefit of the doubt. What kind of tournaments will you recommend to meet more serious players?

Thanks for your reply. I have seen most of these videos and for me there are still some problems here. 1. Yes, the speed is higher, but that should simply not make a good player below avarage, and a bad player a big winner. The same odds should apply, but sadly and obviously they do not. 2. "Nothing is impossible" is just as valid for religious claims as for the claim that online poker is random and fair. My claim can be "online poker is rigged", then you say "prove it" and I say "nothing is impossible". And around we go... My claim is that from a statistical point of view, the things happening online is not impossible, but far from common or realistic. I do not see that the best players win, simple as that. I see bad players win, over and over, like if math, statistics and RNG's do not work the same way in this digital world. If someone has only played online they will have no clue to how unrealistic online poker actually is. That being said, the online community is packed full with clueless morons that plays poker likes its a slot-machine. I do NOT see more serious players, like one video claims. All-in, all-in, all-in... Does this work in real life? Not often, but to some degree. Does it work online? Hell yes, and in the most incredible ways and against all odds. The defenders of online poker will call it "bad beats", while a good player will call it ridicilous when it goes past a certain point. You have to understand that tens of thousands of players do not react to improbable outcomes every now and then, they react to the endless amount of them online. And one "phenomenon" is so repated online that if players dont see it, they must be blind or in denial: When the biggest stack face one of the smallest stacks, he gets what he needs on the table in 80-90% of the showdowns. There are no mathematical or statistical ways around it, other than the religious claim that "nothing is impossible". For me, the justification for all the "TV-moments" on online poker is rather weak. If something is highly improbable, then there are major reasons to either reject it as nonsense or demand proof for the claim that it's belivable. Online poker-defenders seem to often turn this problem upside-down. To put it in other words, its not the players responibility to prove if there is any foul play at work. Its the provider of the software that has to prove that their product is fair and trustworthy if tens of thousands players do not trust it from their experience and observations. You ask, why should we not trust it? I ask, why should we? I am off course waiting for someone to ask "why would they risk being called out for foul play"? Well, actually they do not risk anything. They are providers of addiction and gambling from unregulated islands and countries. Who would shut them down? Look at Dieselgate and Volkswagon. Same logic there, but they still did it and with higher risk in countries where there are regulations, and they are still selling cars like there is no tomorrow. This happens all the time in big business. The risk is worth the payoff. We are talking billions here. The more action, the more money flows quicker through the system in the gambling world. These are still just my thoughts and examples, but still something to take into consideration. I am not saying "don't trust online poker". I am simply asking, why do you thrust it when there are so many improbable outcomes over and over again around these digital tables?

I know that many, many thousands of players have reacted to online poker, mostly how it seems rigged, set up for big hands, and the endless runner-runner situations. I've played live poker for 25 years and took a brake from online poker years ago after shortly regarding the whole thing as a badly directed joke. I have now tried it again for some days after playing live for many years, and here we go again... Runner-runner, monster vs monster, straights and flushes laid out between three of a kind, big stacks winning 8 out of 10 hands, players who cant loose no matter what etc... Math and stats do not seem to matter online. Its not just me, I also see the outcome for other players, and I often laugh out loud to myself because its so far from the reality of live poker and almost predictable in a way. I know that there are 10 times more played hands online etc., but just twice as many hands would be enough to start wondering. It just happens over and over and over and over again. If just one card in the deck can save someone, the online poker RNG seems to randomly find it to many times... I have to ask, does this really seem normal and credible to most of you? If yes, have you played live poker and seen how far from reality online poker is? Just asking. Not going after another "rigged-thread" here. I truly wonder about this. Can someone explain this to me? Is this truly poker in its purest, caotich and rawest form where the best players win in the end and the losers rant of unfair games? Or does this brake the boundaries of common sense and probablities too many times compared to real life? Feel free to educate me. 🙂 The main reason I actually don't think this is rigged, its because it seems so over-the-top manipulated and set-up that no one would buy into it unless this is actually how poker is by simply increasing the speed of the game...