Loyalty refresh April 1st 2023

[Stubbe-Unibet]

As most of you probably know by now, we're going to make changes to the loyalty system the 1st of April. I'll try to walk you through the biggest changes here and happy to answer any questions you may have (in the thread, not by PM 😉).

I'd say there're 5 key changes:

• The bi-weekly bonuses (rake x, get y) become a more integrated and official part of the loyalty system. Where the bonuses were either 10% or 20% up until a few weeks ago, they now range between 5% and 35%
• We no longer pay tickets through loyalty and the cash share is increased significantly - cash from level 5-1
• The rake required for each level has changed (been increased)
• The BP multipliers have been changed. Please keep in mind that your multiplier (if reaching lvl 6 or 7) is carried over from Q1 to Q2, so you'll be getting more in Q2 than what's shown in tables and graph below
• When we consider the bonuses to be a part of the loyalty system from 1st April, the total RB paid to all players, through loyalty, will remain similar to how it has been since 2021. This of course means that the "traditional loyalty" will be paying slightly less with the new system. The difference is biggest at the lowest levels where players are generally getting significant value from promotions and monthly missions. There're also a fair few MTT primary players at the lowest levels and all of you are benefiting from the lowest fees in the industry (remember, we charge less than 5% on all bounty tournaments for instance!).

It's Saturday and I'm technically off, so I'll allow myself to copy and paste a draft for the new promo page:

Poker Loyalty – Earn up to 50% rakeback

With a potential boost up to 65%

· Play cash or tournament poker to earn XP and unlock rewards

· Level up and get better and bigger rewards

· Bi-weekly bonuses for further cashback boost

How does it work?

Not only do we offer the cheapest tournaments and low stakes cash games,  but we also have a very generous loyalty system for you!

For every 1 cent you generate in rake, you earn 1XP. Collect XP to progress towards bigger and better loyalty levels!

Our loyalty system pays rewards in three different ways:

1. As soon as you reach level 2, you’ll start to receive bonus points – our shop currency that you can use to buy playthrough bonuses and tickets. These bonus points are paid constantly as you generate rake in cash games and pay fees when playing tournaments. When you reach a new level, you increase your bonus points multiplier. This means you’ll earn bonus points at a greater pace.
2. The loyalty system has 34 steps, broken down into 7 levels. Whenever you reach a new step, you unlock a reward. These rewards could be cash, bonus points, tickets, and bonuses.
3. Potential Boost: Upon reaching level 4, you unlock the possibility of receiving bi-weekly playthrough bonuses for a cashback boost of up to 35%! These bonuses come with a rake/fee requirement, which must be met to unlock the cash reward. You are not guaranteed to receive bonuses and the cash value can vary between bonuses. The bonuses pay 5% to 35% cashback.

RAKEBACK OVERVIEW TABLE

The min rakeback % is the percentage guaranteed from bonus points and level/step prizes. Max rakeback % is what some players will be getting with the bi-weekly playthrough bonuses included.

Level 6 and 7 unlock a carry-over of the bonus points multiplier to the following quarter – you start next quarter with 12/16 BP multiplier instead of 0. The smaller value in Min Rakeback % for level 6 to 7-9 is without this carry-over unlocked while the bigger value includes the carry-over.

Level	XP required	Min Rakeback %	Max Rakeback %
1		0.0%	0.0%
1-1	500	5.0%	5.0%
1-2	1,000	5.0%	5.0%
1-3	1,500	5.0%	5.0%
2	2,000	5.0%	5.0%
2-1	4,500	7.8%	7.8%
2-2	7,000	8.6%	8.6%
2-3	9,500	8.9%	8.9%
3	12,000	9.2%	9.2%
3-1	24,500	10.1%	10.1%
3-2	37,000	10.4%	10.4%
3-3	49,500	11.1%	11.1%
4	62,000	11.5%	15.5%
4-1	92,000	13.9%	18.4%
4-2	122,000	15.2%	20.2%
4-3	152,000	15.9%	21.9%
5	182,000	16.4%	25.4%
5-1	277,000	19.7%	29.7%
5-2	372,000	21.3%	31.3%
5-3	467,000	22.3%	34.3%
6	562,000	22.9%-30.4%	42.4%
6-1	772,000	26.4%-31.9%	44.4%
6-2	982,000	28.4%-32.7%	45.2%
6-3	1,192,000	29.7%-33.3%	46.3%
7	1,402,000	30.6%-37.6%	50.6%
7-1	1,802,000	32.9%-38.4%	51.4%
7-2	2,202,000	34.4%-38.9%	52.4%
7-3	2,602,000	35.4%-39.2%	52.7%
7-4	3,002,000	36.2%-39.4%	53.4%
7-5	3,402,000	36.7%-39.6%	53.6%
7-6	3,802,000	38.5%-41.1%	56.1%
7-7	4,202,000	41.1%-43.4%	58.4%
7-8	4,602,000	44.4%-46.5%	61.5%
7-9	5,002,000	48.1%-50.1%	65.1%

Once the last level is reached, you still receive bonus points from the multiplier. Furthermore, the bi-weekly bonuses will start to pay a much higher rakeback percentage.

REWARDS TABLE

Level	Total XP	BP Multiplier	Rake Step in €	Step/Level Prize	Multiplier BP
1		0
1-1	500	0	5	25 BP	0
1-2	1000	0	5	25 BP	0
1-3	1500	0	5	25 BP	0
2	2000	2	5	25 BP	0
2-1	4500	2	25	200 BP	50
2-2	7000	2	25	200 BP	50
2-3	9500	2	25	200 BP	50
3	12000	3	25	200 BP	50
3-1	24500	3	125	1000 BP	375
3-2	37000	3	125	1000 BP	375
3-3	49500	3	125	1250 BP	375
4	62000	4	125	1250 BP	375
4-1	92000	4	300	4500 BP	1200
4-2	122000	4	300	4500 BP	1200
4-3	152000	4	300	4500 BP	1200
5	182000	5	300	4500 BP	1200
5-1	277000	5	950	€200 Cash	4750
5-2	372000	5	950	€200 Cash	4750
5-3	467000	5	950	€200 Cash	4750
6	562000	12	950	€200 Cash	4750
6-1	772000	12	2100	€500 Cash	25200
6-2	982000	12	2100	€500 Cash	25200
6-3	1192000	12	2100	€500 Cash	25200
7	1402000	16	2100	€500 Cash	25200
7-1	1802000	16	4000	€1000 Cash	64000
7-2	2202000	16	4000	€1000 Cash	64000
7-3	2602000	16	4000	€1000 Cash	64000
7-4	3002000	16	4000	€1000 Cash	64000
7-5	3402000	16	4000	€1000 Cash	64000
7-6	3802000	16	4000	€1500 Cash	64000
7-7	4202000	16	4000	€2000 Cash	64000
7-8	4602000	16	4000	€2500 Cash	64000
7-9	5002000	16	4000	€3000 Cash	64000

[ImProSpin]

@Stubbe-Unibet

Hello

I have some question 

For unibet players from Belgium why we dont have any bonuses rakeback or even shop to buy something with points at least and earn points 

i dont mention site but for players from belgium who have license for belgian players we get loyalty points and then can use them in shop to buying clothes ipads iphones even gift cards at least something back if u grind and get enough points and that is not against Belgian gambling law 

And on other side you play on unibet paying rake and get nothing back thats i cant understand 

Thank you for answer.😊

[Stubbe-Unibet]

39 minutes ago, ImProSpin said:

@Stubbe-Unibet

Hello

I have some question 

For unibet players from Belgium why we dont have any bonuses rakeback or even shop to buy something with points at least and earn points 

i dont mention site but for players from belgium who have license for belgian players we get loyalty points and then can use them in shop to buying clothes ipads iphones even gift cards at least something back if u grind and get enough points and that is not against Belgian gambling law 

And on other side you play on unibet paying rake and get nothing back thats i cant understand 

Thank you for answer.😊

We used to have loyalty in Belgium but were kindly told by your local regulator that it wasn't allowed and had to be disabled.

The "rakeback" paid by Stars in Belgium is very little. Due to our MTT rake - much, much lower than on Stars - you are way better off playing with us 🙂 

Would you rather pay 100 and get 5 back or pay 50 and get 0 back? 😉 

[Wizard]

Hey Stubbe, hope you are well and enjoying the kid.

A few questions / thoughts:

1) If I read this correctly, Unibet is honouring the bonus point multiplier achieved in Q1 of 2023 based on the Q1 rewards scheme. eg. you rake 9005 Euros in Q1 and make level 7, you keep the 18% multiplier for all of Q2? If so I appreciate this, its the right thing to do given people have played all quarter based on the current reward scheme.

2) One of the bigger changes is the increased rake to reach level 7. Previously you needed to rake 9k to make Level 7 and achieve the 18% bonus multiplier carry through. Now its 14K! You have to play >50% more to get hit level 7, plus the multiplier is 16% not 18% carried forward. If you made Level 7 before but won't make it under the new loyalty scheme that's a hefty drop in rewards, I think it could be falling from something like 37% to 28% in rewards (the exact maths is very complicated). RIP everyone raking 9k-14k I guess? (Yes I realise this could be made up for in biweekly bonuses).

3) I like just giving cash rewards not points, bonuses, tickets or packages for achieving levels 5-1 onwards. Its just so much easier for everyone.

4) I rate the biweekly bonuses, definitely good to have a way to delete them yourself if you want to. I didn't realise they could go up to 35%, I'll be looking out for that xD.

5) Have there been changes to affiliate races in 2023? I think they went from monthly, to every 2nd month of the quarter, and now IDK what's happening. These very strongly incentivised a bit of extra volume at the end of the month to move up the leaderboard so I'm surprised that they disappeared.

6) There might be less complaints about the rewards at the lowest levels if you posted how much in RB some of the lowest stakes players are getting when you take community promos, missions etc into account. Unibet must be giving some nanostakes players 150% RB if they max out the missions.

Run good everyone.

Edited March 12, 2023 by Wizard

[P0kerM0nk]

I assume it will be an option but I'll ask anyway, hope the bi-weekly bonuses will have a manual cancelation button by then?

[Stubbe-Unibet]

On 3/12/2023 at 9:11 AM, Wizard said:

Hey Stubbe, hope you are well and enjoying the kid.

A few questions / thoughts:

1) If I read this correctly, Unibet is honouring the bonus point multiplier achieved in Q1 of 2023 based on the Q1 rewards scheme. eg. you rake 9005 Euros in Q1 and make level 7, you keep the 18% multiplier for all of Q2? If so I appreciate this, its the right thing to do given people have played all quarter based on the current reward scheme.

2) One of the bigger changes is the increased rake to reach level 7. Previously you needed to rake 9k to make Level 7 and achieve the 18% bonus multiplier carry through. Now its 14K! You have to play >50% more to get hit level 7, plus the multiplier is 16% not 18% carried forward. If you made Level 7 before but won't make it under the new loyalty scheme that's a hefty drop in rewards, I think it could be falling from something like 37% to 28% in rewards (the exact maths is very complicated). RIP everyone raking 9k-14k I guess? (Yes I realise this could be made up for in biweekly bonuses).

3) I like just giving cash rewards not points, bonuses, tickets or packages for achieving levels 5-1 onwards. Its just so much easier for everyone.

4) I rate the biweekly bonuses, definitely good to have a way to delete them yourself if you want to. I didn't realise they could go up to 35%, I'll be looking out for that xD.

5) Have there been changes to affiliate races in 2023? I think they went from monthly, to every 2nd month of the quarter, and now IDK what's happening. These very strongly incentivised a bit of extra volume at the end of the month to move up the leaderboard so I'm surprised that they disappeared.

6) There might be less complaints about the rewards at the lowest levels if you posted how much in RB some of the lowest stakes players are getting when you take community promos, missions etc into account. Unibet must be giving some nanostakes players 150% RB if they max out the missions.

Run good everyone.

Before answering your questions, there's one thing I haven't mentioned yet: the changes will allow more freedom when planning promotions. In April this for instance means we'll have the biggest-ever XP race! 💰

1. Yes, that's correct 🙂

2. 39.5% to 32.7% for old lvl7, approximately. You are right that for 3 lvls of old system there'll be a fair bit of difference, if we ignore the bonuses (which we shouldn't 😉 ). If you reach lvl 7 in new system you'll be getting 37.6% while equivalent RB with old system is approx. 39%.

5. I'm not sure when the next is planned tbh, but I do believe the plan is still to do approx. 1 every quarter.

6. If we take the current levels 1 to 1-3, we're paying an average of 45% "rakeback", and this is without freerolls/overlay. With freerolls this figure is a fair bit higher. And yes, there are lot of players here getting well above 100% 🙂 

Made a graph for you all. Will need to verify it all later, but it should be correct. The number for current loyalty is based on actual rakeback figures for last 4 quarters; so looking at players raking the required amount to reach level (new system) and the amount the got in RB from loyalty.

[Stubbe-Unibet]

38 minutes ago, P0kerM0nk said:

I assume it will be an option but I'll ask anyway, hope the bi-weekly bonuses will have a manual cancelation button by then?

Plan still the same as previously communicated: April release if all goes according to plan

[Stubbe-Unibet]

It's just a matter of time before these questions get asked, so I might as well answer them now:

Will I personally get more or less with the new system? Does it matter if I'm winning or losing?

I'll try to be as transparent as possible here. Networks/sites like GG, iPoker and Pokerstars pay more rakeback to losing players than winning, and there's a reason they're secretive about it: it's no small difference. This obviously makes perfect sense from a site perspective. If someone is winning €25,000 (or €100,000 for that matter) in three months, before any rakeback is paid, it makes little sense to pay this player an additional €25,000 in rakeback. The money is for instance much better spent supporting a player who's about breakeven or slightly winning, before rakeback. I don't think any of the aforementioned sites have ever been transparent about it, so let me be the first:
If you're winning a decent amount before rakeback, you'll be getting less from the bi-weekly bonuses than when you have a downswing and struggle to make a profit at the tables. However, this only affects the bi-weekly bonuses and the "regular" loyalty system treats everyone the same, which means you're still guaranteed a pretty good rakeback percentage as a winner - and we're 100% transparent about this percentage.
I personally think we've found a pretty good balance with the new system, where everyone will know what to expect, rake isn't some mysterious thing that's determined differently depending on your win rate and we're giving more of a helping hand to the high-volume players that need such to make decent profit. 

So to answer the question: will you be getting more or less rakeback? It depends how you do at the tables. If rakeback is fundamental to your profit, you won't be disappointed. If you're crushing the games, you'll be getting less; but still a very decent percentage.

TLDR: yes, we're moving a little bit closer to the main competitors, in the sense that everyone won't be treated the exact same: if you're about breakeven, you'll get more than someone who's crushing. However, we still have a guaranteed minimum rakeback and the difference generally isn't that big, compared to today. 

[P0kerM0nk]

I've been keeping my winrate low artificially so I can receive maximum rakeback / offers, I'm a genius I know ☺️

[Stubbe-Unibet]

7 minutes ago, P0kerM0nk said:

I've been keeping my winrate low artificially so I can receive maximum rakeback / offers, I'm a genius I know ☺️

[chip]

9 hours ago, Stubbe-Unibet said:

Made a graph for you all. Will need to verify it all later, but it should be correct. The number for current loyalty is based on actual rakeback figures for last 4 quarters; so looking at players raking the required amount to reach level (new system) and the amount the got in RB from loyalty.

Would be nice to see rake paid in this graph.

[Stubbe-Unibet]

8 hours ago, chip said:

Would be nice to see rake paid in this graph.

Rake required for each level is in the table in OP 🙂 

[chip]

Made a graph for myself with rake added so might as well share it with others.

 

My take on the new loyalty refresh:

The good: BP/Cash prizes only. No more random tickets.

The bad: As Wizard said, players in that 9k-14k range (myself included) are clearly taking a hit. Will be hard to maintain multiplier especially in the summer.

The ugly: "Rake x, Get y" which started as an experimental bonus on top of current RB with minimal downside will lower other parts of RB in the future.
My success rate with these growingly difficult to complete, burn out inducing bonuses is pretty bad.

[Stubbe-Unibet]

46 minutes ago, chip said:

Made a graph for myself with rake added so might as well share it with others.

 

My take on the new loyalty refresh:

The good: BP/Cash prizes only. No more random tickets.

The bad: As Wizard said, players in that 9k-14k range (myself included) are clearly taking a hit. Will be hard to maintain multiplier especially in the summer.

The ugly: "Rake x, Get y" which started as an experimental bonus on top of current RB with minimal downside will lower other parts of RB in the future.
My success rate with these growingly difficult to complete, burn out inducing bonuses is pretty bad.

I think it's worth noting that the bonus setup has changed significantly over time and especially a month or so ago when I did a complete refresh. We'll continue to optimize it and if you're playing somewhat steady volume throughout the quarter, you'll at very least complete one bonus, even if you don't put in much more volume during the given 2 week period - the requirement isn't the same for you, every single sendout, even if your rake is.

I expect to make a lot more changes to it over the coming months.

[dunnoaboutthat]

it would be nice if you could sort of freeze the bonus for a few days up to a week or so(for  example on the day it starts). Sometimes you know you will be on holiday or something right after you receive it and then you only have a few days to clear it when you come back.

[psrquack]

Will the q2-q3 loyalty freerolls stand?

[Stubbe-Unibet]

3 minutes ago, psrquack said:

Will the q2-q3 loyalty freerolls stand?

For @Andy-Unibet to confirm what will happen with those

[Stubbe-Unibet]

2 hours ago, dunnoaboutthat said:

it would be nice if you could sort of freeze the bonus for a few days up to a week or so(for  example on the day it starts). Sometimes you know you will be on holiday or something right after you receive it and then you only have a few days to clear it when you come back.

In those cases I think the cancel button will come in handy. If you don't think it's realistic for you to complete a bonus (for instance because of holiday), you'd simply decline the bonus and go for the next one instead 🙂 

[LIKE2FISH]

 

When the new system comes into place on April 1st, will my existing bonus I have still remain so I have chance to clear it?

Thanks

[Stubbe-Unibet]

21 minutes ago, LIKE2FISH said:

 

When the new system comes into place on April 1st, will my existing bonus I have still remain so I have chance to clear it?

Thanks

Yes, we won't remove bonuses or anything else you already got on the account 🙂

[bctrips]

On 3/12/2023 at 11:54 AM, Stubbe-Unibet said:

f you're winning a decent amount before rakeback, you'll be getting less from the bi-weekly bonuses than when you have a downswing and struggle to make a profit at the tables.

So wining/loosing in what time span ?Thats quite important i think. What if due to variance someone is crushing lets say first half year and then getting destroyed or BE next half ? Also some loosing/BE player can also have like 3 great months in a row, but loosing /BE overall through year, does that mean he would get the lowest bonuses in this good runs ?

In my experience, for my latest bonus i played on avg at least 6h every single day for 14days multitabling 8+ and i barelly made it. Now with current setup even though its stressfull im still happy because its nice additional value on top of nice loyalty and its fine if you occasionally choose to complete it and im sure its good for traffic. To have it integrated as part of loyalty i don't like it as much because that would mean constant stressing and "forced" playing for mostly arround the same loyalty rewards as now.

As you said you expect to optimise/make alot of changes so if you decrease requirement of this bonuses for like 30%, that would be different much better,  i really can't imagine many players playing constantly for 14days every day 5-6h+ without breaks, holidays, geting sick, family things... Imo for something that is part of loyalty its just too brutal that you can't afford to have day offs, especially if you start running very bad. And marginal winners /BE players are experiencing the toughest swings so im not really sure how effective this strategy of helping them will be. Its like giving someone chance of 65%  rb but very hard to realize it in practice, at least if you want to stay sane 😄 But then again i do understand this from the bussiness/marketing point of view.

 

 

 

 

Edited March 23, 2023 by bctrips

[Stubbe-Unibet]

4 hours ago, bctrips said:

So wining/loosing in what time span ?Thats quite important i think. What if due to variance someone is crushing lets say first half year and then getting destroyed or BE next half ? Also some loosing/BE player can also have like 3 great months in a row, but loosing /BE overall through year, does that mean he would get the lowest bonuses in this good runs ?

In my experience, for my latest bonus i played on avg at least 6h every single day for 14days multitabling 8+ and i barelly made it. Now with current setup even though its stressfull im still happy because its nice additional value on top of nice loyalty and its fine if you occasionally choose to complete it and im sure its good for traffic. To have it integrated as part of loyalty i don't like it as much because that would mean constant stressing and "forced" playing for mostly arround the same loyalty rewards as now.

As you said you expect to optimise/make alot of changes so if you decrease requirement of this bonuses for like 30%, that would be different much better,  i really can't imagine many players playing constantly for 14days every day 5-6h+ without breaks, holidays, geting sick, family things... Imo for something that is part of loyalty its just too brutal that you can't afford to have day offs, especially if you start running very bad. And marginal winners /BE players are experiencing the toughest swings so im not really sure how effective this strategy of helping them will be. Its like giving someone chance of 65%  rb but very hard to realize it in practice, at least if you want to stay sane 😄 But then again i do understand this from the bussiness/marketing point of view.

Previous 13 weeks is primary timeframe we're looking at. Do look at +12 months as well but it's not in the context of RB % for bonus. This is on purpose, as I think the bonuses should take into consideration how you're currently doing. If you hit a big HexaPro multiplier (and won) 6 months ago, this should impact your bonuses short-term but not 6 months down the line. If you're running bad for a quarter (but winning lifetime), I also think it's fair you'll be getting better bonuses for a short while. Opposite then applies when you're running really good a quarter (or if you've just studied a lot and improved your game).

If we were to lower the bonus requirement with 30%, you'd complete it by raking less than you normally do - doesn't really make sense 😉 last sendout had a reasonable completion rate and cost, so don't expect huge changes compared to that one.

[yayaGamble]

Hi, not a fan of this new updated loyalty system. I am a player who reaches level 7.1 in the current format and now I will have to make 115k more points for level 7. 

- about the 2 week bonuses, a year ago it was a nice boost, but the rake requirement increased from 2100 then to 3000-3300 now(playing the same stakes)and I think from the last 5 bonuses I only managed to get one. This monday I didn't even get a bonus. It would be fair that if you don't release a bonus you should get a 10-15% downsize of the requirement and the other way around if you release one.

- the player should get some bonus for the loyalty points made between levels at the end of the quarter,or you can just start the next quarter with  the extra loyalty points from the last quarter 

- what happens with the current bonus points from my account?

 

Have a good day!

[Stubbe-Unibet]

58 minutes ago, yayaGamble said:

Hi, not a fan of this new updated loyalty system. I am a player who reaches level 7.1 in the current format and now I will have to make 115k more points for level 7. 

- about the 2 week bonuses, a year ago it was a nice boost, but the rake requirement increased from 2100 then to 3000-3300 now(playing the same stakes)and I think from the last 5 bonuses I only managed to get one. This monday I didn't even get a bonus. It would be fair that if you don't release a bonus you should get a 10-15% downsize of the requirement and the other way around if you release one.

- the player should get some bonus for the loyalty points made between levels at the end of the quarter,or you can just start the next quarter with  the extra loyalty points from the last quarter 

- what happens with the current bonus points from my account?

 

Have a good day!

Bonus points are not impacted by loyalty change.

It is already being taken into consideration how you have done with previous bonuses. 15% decrease whenever you fail a bonus would not really make sense; way too extreme and too often the requirement would be lowered - again, there's a reasonable compromise in place today.

We didn't send any bonuses two weeks ago, as we're getting ready for the first sendout with new setup. Again, we'll continue to monitor the data and it is being reviewed every second week. I stand by what was said earlier: if you're winning before rakeback, you'll be worse off. If you're not winning before rakeback, you'll be better off than before the bonuses. This is when looking at the customer base as a whole and there will be exceptions 🙂 

[Wizard]

Agree w @yayaGamble

There used to be a quarterly carry over for XP once you at a certain level, which prevents you from hitting a period end of the quarter when you know you cant hit the next level and the incentive to put in volume is low. 

With the current setup (especially with each level taking more volume to complete) it seems quite likely people take a break / switch sites or something for the last week or so if they know they cant hit the next level.