Community WC fantasy chat

[BonusPater]

Correct

[Merenitsu]

@testuser1 with the source there are problems. there are some with this kind of

[Merenitsu]

@testuser1 Dribles i think need delete, becouse for defenders will have to enter the selection

[BonusPater]

@Merenitsu, sorry, but I don't really understand your two previous posts :(

[Livertool]

Just use flashscore stats. There  is not all like tackles but i think they are right (usually) and updates pretty fast.

Couple of things that caught my eye: not on pitch -2 and team loss -3. Why do we want that everyone choose same players?

[BonusPater]

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@Livertool wrote:

Just use flashscore stats. There  is not all like tackles but i think they are right (usually) and updates pretty fast.

Couple of things that caught my eye: not on pitch -2 and team loss -3. Why do we want that everyone choose same players?

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If you're stupid enough to pick someone who doesn't play a single minute, you should be punished :)

I do believe the team performance (clean sheet, win/loss/draw) should have a small effect. Players from the best teams will be more expensive.

[BonusPater]

I had a look at Flashscore and their stats, and I can't find a page with player related stats for the individual matches?

[Merenitsu]

@testuser1 If you do not understand, I will explain what I mean.
1. At the moment there is a problem with the website on which there are detailed statistics.
2. I am pleased that new items have been added, but there are some on which we probably will not find any statistics at all

[Merenitsu]

@testuser1 I also propose to make changes in the value of the players. All information about the value of the games is taken from transfermarkt.de  for example, the most expensive player is 180 = 180 points million, the cheapest 1 million = 1 point (here to include players who are worth up to 1 million) per team to give 1000 or less points and change the cost will only be necessary in the next transfer window. And each player will have a different cost compared to others. And everyone can really imagine themselves as the owner with a certain amount for the purchase of players. 

neymar 180 points 

messi 180 points 

mbappe 150 points

salax 150 points 

kane 150 points

forsberg 25 points

etc

 

[BonusPater]

@Merenitsu,

1. What's the issue?

2. All of them are on whoscored

[Merenitsu]

@testuser1 OK. we will take all the information from the source that you offer

[BonusPater]

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@Merenitsu wrote:

@testuser1 I also propose to make changes in the value of the players. All information about the value of the games is taken from transfermarkt.de  for example, the most expensive player is 180 = 180 points million, the cheapest 1 million = 1 point (here to include players who are worth up to 1 million) per team to give 1000 or less points and change the cost will only be necessary in the next transfer window. And each player will have a different cost compared to others. And everyone can really imagine themselves as the owner with a certain amount for the purchase of players. 

neymar 180 points 

messi 180 points 

mbappe 150 points

salax 150 points 

kane 150 points

forsberg 25 points

etc

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Sorry, but that's ridiculous. Those values make 0 sense for a fantasy game. Let me explain with an example from Schalke.

Naldo - who takes long-range freekicks, is the most dangerous player on corners (scored 7 goals in the Bundesliga last season) and had the best percentage of duels won - would cost just 1.5 point 🤣

Kehrer - young talent who has a decent number of tackles per game, but isn't even a certain starter - would cost 18 points 🤣 🤣 🤣

A player like Varane would cost more than 50 times as much as Naldo 🤣

[Merenitsu]

@testuser1 you saw his age. he is so worth it🤣

[Merenitsu]

@testuser1 all media are referring to this website, and you reject it. this is its real value.

[Livertool]

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@testuser1 wrote:

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@Livertool wrote:

Just use flashscore stats. There  is not all like tackles but i think they are right (usually) and updates pretty fast.

Couple of things that caught my eye: not on pitch -2 and team loss -3. Why do we want that everyone choose same players?

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If you're stupid enough to pick someone who doesn't play a single minute, you should be punished :)

I do believe the team performance (clean sheet, win/loss/draw) should have a small effect. Players from the best teams will be more expensive.

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I don´t believe it is matter of stupidness if we do one day at the time and can see lineups. But sometimes they just don´t play even if they are announced for starting 11 (not often but it happens) so i don´t see why it should be punished, just brings one more luck element in competition.

Clean sheet is another thing but win, draw, loss is another. If there would be match between Liverpool and HJK, everyone would just pick Liverpool players cause it is certain - points for picking someone from HJK. So instead 22 players to choose from, it would be basically 11 to choose from and that means more or less same players for everyone.

And you are right, they delete stats for players in flashscore after some time has passed. Idk why but i asked them for it. Lets see what they respond. 

[BonusPater]

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@Livertool wrote:

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@testuser1 wrote:

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@Livertool wrote:

Just use flashscore stats. There  is not all like tackles but i think they are right (usually) and updates pretty fast.

Couple of things that caught my eye: not on pitch -2 and team loss -3. Why do we want that everyone choose same players?

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If you're stupid enough to pick someone who doesn't play a single minute, you should be punished :)

I do believe the team performance (clean sheet, win/loss/draw) should have a small effect. Players from the best teams will be more expensive.

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I don´t believe it is matter of stupidness if we do one day at the time and can see lineups. But sometimes they just don´t play even if they are announced for starting 11 (not often but it happens) so i don´t see why it should be punished, just brings one more luck element in competition.

Clean sheet is another thing but win, draw, loss is another. If there would be match between Liverpool and HJK, everyone would just pick Liverpool players cause it is certain - points for picking someone from HJK. So instead 22 players to choose from, it would be basically 11 to choose from and that means more or less same players for everyone.

And you are right, they delete stats for players in flashscore after some time has passed. Idk why but i asked them for it. Lets see what they respond. 

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Predicting the lineup is a question of skill. Last season I was better at predicting Schalkes lineups than Kicker, but if I was to predict the lineup for an English team I'd be clueless and 100 % dependant on the English media. Predicting a goalscorer (or assist for that matter) is much more a question of luck, so I don't buy your argument :) just ask yourself this: what's the chance of predicting 10 out of 11 in the lineup vs 10 of 11 goalscorers :)

No way I'd ever bet on a Liverpool cleansheet 🤣 there won't be match drafts, but round drafts, so there'll be at least 352 players to choose between, if we focus solely on the starting 11 - 176 if we go by the logic that it's all or nothing in every game, which it obviously isn't. With more than 400 players - realistically speaking the members generally won't be great at predicting the starting 11 - to chose from, there'll be 914,659,044,092,733,248,400 possible combinations, if we forget about the formations for a moment.

The team performance metrics will stay, but some of the player ones could possibly be increased slightly.

NB I would not hesitate picking some players from the smaller teams, with the points structure suggested above :)

[Purps]

Does the system allow making manager substitutions between matchdays? Or do we even want such feature?

Also, if there will be a draft that lasts whole season ( not sure if planned ), would it be possible to make transfers between the rounds?

Not saying either of these should be done, just cusious if the app currently supports these features...

[TTABKATA]

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@TTABKATA wrote:

Good run at the end

 

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[WuDu]

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@testuser1 wrote:

We could use whoscored, even though it's not the most accurate source. Below my suggestion for the point categories. Main issue with this is the complexity and time it'll take to update everything (I estimate roughly 15-20 minutes per game). I don't have time to do this, and during the group stage it's 16 games in two days = +4 hours.

Action	Points
Goal by striker	10
Goal by midfielder	12
Goal by defender/GK	15
Hattrick	5
Own goal	-8
Assist	6
Shot	1
Shot on target	2
Player on pitch	4
Not on pitch	-2
GK clean sheet	8
Defender clean sheet	5
GK save	2
Saved penalty	10
Missed penalty	-5
Team win	3
Team draw	1
Team loss	-3
Team goal	1
Opponent goal	-1
Yellow card	-3
Red card	-10
Interception	1
Tackle	2
Blocked shot	1
Fouled	1
Dribles	1

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@testuser1

If your goal is for most of us to choose players from 4-5 different games instead of 16 ones, congratulations: Mission accomplished! Let's say Real Madrid plays at home against Porto and wins 2-0. A completely reasonable result:

Every Madrid player on the pitch would get 10 team points (win, clean sheet, goals scored) on top of personal performance. Every Porto player would receive -5 points on top of his performance. That's a 15 point swing. No one would pick up players from underdogs in risky games like that. Now your solution would be to increase the prices for the Real players. Congrats again, you cannot pick them up as well. This will result in us managers to go for

• Players from middle of the road matches (think something like Copenhagen-Lyon or Athens-Schalke)
• the cheapest starters from star teams, especially on defense

Also, I find it funny that assists are weighted differently regarding of who scores. If Kroos assists on a corner kick and Varane heads it in, his assist was only worth 6/15 of the goal: 40 %. If the same header is being made by Benzema, the relative value of the assist climbs to 60 %. That's just stupid. Every action on the pitch should result in the same points, regardless whether a defender does it or a forward.

[BonusPater]

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@WuDu wrote:

Every action on the pitch should result in the same points, regardless whether a defender does it or a forward.

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That's just stupid :)

For the rest of your comment. Yes, could do with some tweaking, and as mentioned above, I'm all for the player actions giving slightly more points :)

First proposal is almost a copy (with some additions like tackles and dribbles) of one of the most successful fantasy setups

[WuDu]

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@testuser1 wrote:

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@WuDu wrote:

Every action on the pitch should result in the same points, regardless whether a defender does it or a forward.

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That's just stupid :)

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Just fight your socialist tendencies, I know you can! Affirmative action on defenders (giving them more points for goals) won't lead anybody to pick up defenders for that purpose since they are about 6-7 times less likely to score in comparison to forwards.

According to your logic, yellow and red cards for defenders should then also be weighted differently, since defenders are more likely to get those as well.

[Livertool]

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@WuDu wrote:

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@testuser1 wrote:

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@WuDu wrote:

Every action on the pitch should result in the same points, regardless whether a defender does it or a forward.

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That's just stupid :)

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Just fight your socialist tendencies, I know you can! Affirmative action on defenders (giving them more points for goals) won't lead anybody to pick up defenders for that purpose since they are about 6-7 times less likely to score in comparison to forwards.

According to your logic, yellow and red cards for defenders should then also be weighted differently, since defenders are more likely to get those as well.

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One thing i love about @WuDu he is not here make friends but telling how things is :d :Heart::Heart::Heart:

Maybe some things could be not written though 😉

[Merenitsu]

@WuDu I think it's useless to waste time on suggestions. he decided how he wanted. We can not do anything with it. Therefore, it is necessary to accept its variant 😃. @testuser1 I'll help with the statistics, just tell me what I need to do specifically

[BonusPater]

@Merenitsu, I am actually listening ;)

However, your Transfermarket proposal was not really thought through, as shown in my previous reply to you :)

I will make some adjustments, and there might end up being just 1 goal category, if we can make up for it with points for tackles and interceptions. Again, all depends on the data source :)

[Livertool]

Yep, still here 🤣

But don´t were out @testuser1 months before contest begins. I know he is stubborn one but just suck him balls harder, he will come around :D