Unibet UK Tour schedule updated

[jonny2192]

@MoreTBC The only reason a lot of people stick with UK/UO tour is because they can do pretty much what they want with the tickets and take as long as they want to risk trying the next stage.

IMO your suggestions would just piss people off, not saying the idea doesnt have merit but when people get used to having it good for awhile they get upset when you change that.

With this kind of change I would just use up my ticket roll and not bother at all and its a personal choice for everyone to decide how many tickets they have saved up before they take the nect step.

I have heard @MathrimC say hes fine just having a 150e roll and going playing a final, myself I want a 600 roll before playing a final. Playing a 100e final for some people is a really big thing and if they need to have 10k in tickets behind them to make them feel comfortable to take that shot then imo its there money and they can do it, If another person wants to yolo there whole BR on 1 100e game again thats there choice and they can do that but I definetly wont be doing it. 

[MoreTBC]

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@jonny2192 wrote:

@MoreTBC The only reason a lot of people stick with UK/UO tour is because they can do pretty much what they want with the tickets and take as long as they want to risk trying the next stage.

IMO your suggestions would just piss people off, not saying the idea doesnt have merit but when people get used to having it good for awhile they get upset when you change that.

With this kind of change I would just use up my ticket roll and not bother at all and its a personal choice for everyone to decide how many tickets they have saved up before they take the nect step.

I have heard @MathrimC say hes fine just having a 150e roll and going playing a final, myself I want a 600 roll before playing a final. Playing a 100e final for some people is a really big thing and if they need to have 10k in tickets behind them to make them feel comfortable to take that shot then imo its there money and they can do it, If another person wants to yolo there whole BR on 1 100e game again thats there choice and they can do that but I definetly wont be doing it. 

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I know it's going to piss people off but it's only going to piss people off that are used to having it good like you say, not joe player. You can still have €600 saved before you play a final with the alternate scheme, you just can't have it as 6x €100. 

What you've just said perfectly illustates my final point, your issue with the changes are because it would affect you personally but if you use all your tickets and stop playing someone else goes to a UK tour event with the €500 and there is another €100 in the pool for tickets for other players, helping everyone and the Tour. 

I've just looked at the ticket exchange thread and since Monday there has been 3 requests (one being yours and one being mine) that wouldn't fit into the new scheme and one request for an extension due to internet issues. The changes would not have a big impact IMO.

Everyone is talking about trying to save the UK tour but in the same vain everyone still wants to go for free. Oee of them has to stop at some point.

[Leo-Unibet]

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@Psycho79 wrote:

Hey @FeelsBadMan!

TX for reading it anyway, you are probably one of the few who has done that. A bit salty about it, cause I spent all morning thinking of and writing the post, and the changes have been made today are nothing but sweeping the garbage under the carper in my opinion. There was 6 places paid today in the 25€ sat. Two Final bullets 100€ + 3  generic MTT Tickets + 24€ Cash. How does it suppose to be a healthy system when 99€, 1/3 of the prizepool, leaks out in an hour? Do you know that every five tournaments like this, we're sending one player less to UK? I know that what I suggested is not possible to apply overnight, but it's always a positive idea. At the end suggestions are only suggestions, no one has to like them. I agree with @jonny2192 saying that the structures are not the biggest issue, which is attracting players to these sats. From my perspective, playing/advertising these sats with/by ambassadors has nothing to do with intimidating players, rather hanging out and having fun time together. I remember when I first discovered streams on Twitch, it was a real pleasure to sit at one table with Dave shaking his head after hand against me or to see Charlotte's face when taking her bounty 😛 I think most players feel that way, and their attendance in the sats might be only better. Of course I didn't mean that Unibet should suddenly focus all the promotions on the UK Tour only, but arousing players' interest by doing "something ", not much, would turn out enough. I suggested no guaranties only at the beginning, to get rid of overlays, but multiple low BI sats throughout the day should produce many higher entries, providing at the same time game fluency and starting the higher BI sats, which is a lot now, regarding the amounts of them being cancelled so far. If you like to play the format that we played today I don't mind, I can handle these sats, but don't be surprised the boomerang will be here in a sec. This is not problem solving, but only pretending the problems are gone. Alright, no more to speak Your Honor. Have a good night you all, let's hope the UK Tour will be still here when we wake up. GL

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@Psycho79 The leaking of money from the steps due to not prefered ticket being payed out is aware of, this is something that need development and it's top of my list right now that we have developed as soon as possible, when that is done ...... we all home safe.

[FeelsBadMan]

@MoreTBC

I just said that some of those measures do affect joe player and how and now you say they don't so we're at a stalemate I guess.

As for the non joe players, I don't think that many players actually have thousands in uk tickets, I don't even have over 1k. And you're saying that you would prefer someone that let's say churns their 1k in 2 months, 6 times a year, to just churn their 1k in 2 weeks and never play again ... how does that help at all? it just gives a numbers boost at the start and then a crash for the rest of the period. And their tickets don't really "go back into the satellite system" cause they will probably get cashed out as packages. And then you have 1 less player in these satties and the live tour, that doesn't get magically replaced by somebody else cause they don't have those tickets anymore. This seems like more of a measure that would increase overlays than decrease them, long term ... but honestly overall it probably wouldn't matter much cause I don't think that many players are in that situation.

Don't get me wrong I would love it if people played every day, but not everyone is , well, me :haha: , and eliminating players that don't have as much free time as us, or aren't as okay with risk as us doesn't seem like a good idea.

Oh and how does nobody need 20x 4€ UK , they're rebuy/addon now, you can use 20x in 1 day if you're running a bit bad 😏

[radge1]

Hi @Leo-Unibet my idea for the UK flippaments was to make them like the UO centroll, ie a skills tourney with variable buy in.

Re the @MoreTBC and @jonny2192 discussion about limiting ticketage my preference would be to leave things as they are...I consider myself to be a recreational player and have managed, gradually, to accumulate tickets for UK and UO finals. I do feel the need for a decent comfort zone before firing final bullets (I have had a couple of failed attempts at the UK final and one at the UO final) but I do eventually go for it! :geek:

[Leo-Unibet]

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@pirahn wrote:

Agree with @FeelsBadMan , lots of good intention with suggestions which will have little or negative impact.

Suggestions that ticket exchanges may be a cause are misplaced. The ability to exchange tickets has never really been advertised and would be a great selling point. 

Its not Leos fault why the UK tour has not taken off but by god its his fault for such a crass fix. Its not as though R/A has worked with milky way or Supernova. Maybe its worked for leo in a former life but its a huge negative at Unibet. 

The biggest disappointment is that the brand has been damaged. I dont play at Unibet for the tickets, i can get cash instead of tickets at another site doing exactly the same thing. I stay for the ethics, morals and values which have been significantly undermined.

The problem is not a singular issue but a multiple of issues of which some have been addressed by @FeelsBadMan

@Leo-Unibet some of the changes are welcome, not all are necessary but there is a huge error again. The €4 R/A is nonsensical. Why are the structures different at different levels. Thats just crazy. But thats not the biggest issue, €4 is an entry point for new customers who will come from the new promos you have planned and will not only leave quickly but will leave Unibet quickly. That gets us back to square 1. 

 

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@pirahn I agree that having rebuys on "to €4" and "to €100" was a borderline decicion, I was given qiute a few opinons against it so it wasn't a big deal for me to change them to freezeouts. I know by my experience that for us with the liqudity we have on these steps to get the ecology working and us sending players to the UK Tour, the rebuy on "to €25" has to stay, I will as you know monitor the outcome of the changes, if it in the future shows that we don't need the rebuy on that level I will be glad changing it to freezeout. The opportunity we sees in offering this tour to you players is really important for us, making money on this opportunity is really secondary. You can see some of the changes showing that...... we just want it to be a chance for anyone to be able to qualify for a live event, maybe their first one of their life.... even better. Keep it up :-)

[pirahn]

@Leo-Unibet @JeppeL i just spent half an hour writing up suggestions but when i pressed post a message came up and it obviously has not posted. Is it saved somewhere and how can i find it. 

[Leo-Unibet]

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@Darkangel7 wrote:

Want to say Thank you to @Leo-Unibet for actually listening and putting things in place, still a bit to go but at least things are getting sorted. Looks like am gonna have to do a blog outside of Unibet about the U.K. Tours. The more exposure from all of us outside of the Unibet client regarding the U.K. Tour will help as well as the changes. We need to write about the fun and interaction of the tours. Lets see if we as players can help get players coming to Unibet to play. I know a lot have signed up to Unibet when we've had twitch streams. It's down to us as well. Come on if we want it to carry on lets spread the word.

#savetheuktour

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@Darkangel7 🆗 😃

[FeelsBadMan]

@pirahn top right your name, my profile, drafts, maybe it's there ... always select all and CTRL+C before hitting post for a long message anywhere, errors happen all the time 😏

[jonny2192]

@pirahn click reply again and it normally offers you to open the saved version.

[Leo-Unibet]

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@nekoneko wrote:

So UK tour flip was said to be made a centroll :)  I thought it will be a centroll like that one from UO where you actualy play. But it's a centroll flip.. >.> And it gives the cents back too for many places :)

The UO one actualy makes some money at least for those tickets when 170 -230 people join every one of them. Wouldn't that be preferable for Unibet UK tour ?

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@nekoneko You are right, thats why we added those tickets as extra cash and all addicional money invested will be more tickets

[pirahn]

@MoreTBC have you started your xmas drinks early this year.:laugh: 

Whilst ive been really critical of Leo, its not his problem. The bigger problem has been brewing for some time and no one it seems has really taken ownership. I have been asking whos in charge for some time now. For example, before Nottingham i asked whos in charge to find out how many people playing. Previous year there was a huge overlay in Nottingham and i had stated if there was a similar situation i could bring xtra people using my personal tickets plus advertise and maybe even run a promo (using my own tickets) on 2 forums of which 1 is local. No answer was forthcoming and i literally said to myself ❤️♥️❤️ it.

They advertised for a role of events manager which i presume would cover ubo and uk tour. The person now in charge of uk tour is Simon whose primary role is elsewhere. Absolutely no disrespect aimed at Simon, my point being what happened to the dedicated posiition. The uk tour has always suffered from being an xtra for someone whose primary role has been elsewhere. 

For the uk tour to succeed it needs more players.There are 2 simple questions:

1. Over the time of the tour there have been many promos to get players. They came, they played, they left. Why did we not retain these players

2. What do we need to do attract more players to the site and how do we retain them.

In my assessment the answers to both questions are interlinked so ill summarise.

1. The structures were very poor. All fast paced and no real time to play poker.

2. The bugs as mentioned by @jonny2192. The table balancing is laughable. Recs going hu for upto 5 mins can be demoralising.

3. This is the big one. Not enough elsewhere on site for mtt players. The uk is a very mature poker market with max options. There is simply not enough for them to excite them with this schedule and the times for your daily major is out of sync with uk. Even if you moved it, there is simply no value for the average uk player compared to whats on offer.

There are many other issues as to how and when and where to market.

On the upside Unibet offers a fantastic uk tour product and we know there is demand.

@DavidP_Unibet mentions there will be an MTT series. This may be the first real opportunity to market the uk tour to new and lapsed customers.

@Leo-Unibet you need 2 formats, 1 normal and 1 turbo. 1 freezeout and 1 rebuy/re enter (only after losing all chips)

Remove bugs

Remove Nottingham for time being till bigger online presence and maybe consider a bigger gtd tourny elsewhere.

Run non transferable seat only Tickets. (non transferable to a different venue but can transfer to another player)

Make better use of bonus shop. Get a deat with Alea. Buy €10 worth of points from shop for 5 x drinks vouchers or a meal & a drink. This has the added benefit of casino customers asking what these vouchers are and how to get them. Zero cost advertising brand.

Source cheaper hotel accomodation

Glasgow has pool tables and darts. Organise community games like killer. @JeppeL, @MarcoV get practicing.

Invite all at casino to a reunion freeroll with a ticket to next stop ( non transferable)

Only last longest ubo to winner. Use remaining money for varied promos.

Money saved could be used to buy a tangible gift as prizes. ie bounty on ambassador is a phone, watch, etc that can be given there and then to online qualifier. Create a buzz that people can talk about days later. 

Use new direct marketing tools to specified areas. ie specific missions for people who live within 50 miles of a venue.

All the talk about tickets and keeping money in system is fools gold. The key is to get people to site and events and once there make it memorable for them so they will go out of their way to qualify for next one.

 

 

 

[pirahn]

Only half was saved,lol. I forgot to say, You have a vibrant, dedicated and loyal community following. Make use of it.

[MoreTBC]

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@pirahn wrote:

 

All the talk about tickets and keeping money in system is fools gold.

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..says the man with all the tickets ;)

[pirahn]

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@MoreTBC wrote:

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@pirahn wrote:

 

All the talk about tickets and keeping money in system is fools gold.

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..says the man with all the tickets ;)

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Im a fool and pure 24 carat gold

 

[MoreTBC]

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@FeelsBadMan wrote:

@MoreTBC

I just said that some of those measures do affect joe player and how and now you say they don't so we're at a stalemate I guess.

As for the non joe players, I don't think that many players actually have thousands in uk tickets, I don't even have over 1k. And you're saying that you would prefer someone that let's say churns their 1k in 2 months, 6 times a year, to just churn their 1k in 2 weeks and never play again ... how does that help at all? it just gives a numbers boost at the start and then a crash for the rest of the period. And their tickets don't really "go back into the satellite system" cause they will probably get cashed out as packages. And then you have 1 less player in these satties and the live tour, that doesn't get magically replaced by somebody else cause they don't have those tickets anymore. This seems like more of a measure that would increase overlays than decrease them, long term ... but honestly overall it probably wouldn't matter much cause I don't think that many players are in that situation.

Don't get me wrong I would love it if people played every day, but not everyone is , well, me :haha: , and eliminating players that don't have as much free time as us, or aren't as okay with risk as us doesn't seem like a good idea.

Oh and how does nobody need 20x 4€ UK , they're rebuy/addon now, you can use 20x in 1 day if you're running a bit bad 😏

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You're right about the €4's I forgot we're in a r/a era now :)

I didn't really word ticket balance thing well, I meant 2k total over the group of regs, not per account. I suspect there are 5-10 that have €200+ and a few of that bunch with close to €500. Remember with the hypothetical 1k they're churning 6 times a year, it's the same 1k, not 6k. That player is not 'depositing' into the pool at any point over the 12 months, just reusing the same portion of the total system over and over and possibly only taking money out when they win a package. Unibet and recs/new players are the only people making deposits just now.

Anyway, we could argue about the pros and cons forever but I guess we'll just have to see how the current changes go before deciding on any harsher measures.

 

 

[jonny2192]

@MoreTBC causes controversy with his "harsher measures" 🤣 🤣 🤣

[ArtyMcFly]

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@MoreTBC wrote:

 

Am I just not seeing the same words as everyone else on screen? Again, I'm not saying shorten the validity, I'm just saying don't extend it past the initial 30 days. If you can't play the target in 30 days why are you trying to qualify?

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Forgive me for possibly misrepresenting your argument, but isn't this more or less the same as saying "If you won't be playing 25NL in 30 days, you shouldn't be playing 10NL today"?

The tickets are a legitimate part of a player's bankroll. Every time I use a ticket, I am contributing rake. I want to qualify for the live event, but 'forcing' me to play the final risks me busting my ticket roll and leaving the system entirely.

I think I've played something like 75-100 of the UK25 games (close to 200 euros of rake). Since I pretty much break even in them (actually I've lost a few buy-ins this year), I can keep playing them almost indefinitely, but take shots at the 100s when I have a cushion to fall back on if I brick the final. However, I've had several downswings of more than 5 games. If I was "forced" to play UK100s within 30 days of winning a ticket, there is a high chance that I would go busto and would leave the system entirely. There would be no qualification for me, and no more rake from me either. Without wishing to overstate my own importance, as I'm just one small part of the eco-system, sometimes my registration 3 minutes before the game starts is the thing that makes the game run.

In short, the ticket exchange helps maintain liquidity. It's a good thing, for both players and the site. While you might be perturbed by someone "hoarding" 20x UK4 tickets, those tickets can't be converted to cash. (It would be disastrous for the UKTour if tickets could be converted to cash and withdrawn). All UK Tour tickets get re-injected into the system eventually. I suspect that if players couldn't hoard tickets, the traffic would be even lower.

[MoreTBC]

Ok, let's take the extreme then..

There is 10k in ticket dotted about over everyones account. From tomorrow onwards nobody ever enters any UK tour sat with real money. Every week at least one person wins a package and in 20 week or less there is no UK tour because the pool of money in the tour is dry. You could play 1000 UK25s with tickets but you are contributing 0 to the 10k in the pool.. absolutely nothing. The ticket recycling might be starting the sats but its not doing anything to the money pool for the tour. More people need to either enter the pool as new players with cash or bust their ticket roll and have to get back into the system with real money in order for an additional €500 or more to be invested each week to cover the package leaving the system.

Maybe I don't understand how the system works but to me it's as simple as that, €500+ of cash investment every week for it survive.

If people are going to say their not going to play the sats if they don't have tickets then they are basically saying if it's free I'll play the sats but if I have to invest my own money into it I'm not interested. Those players are looking after themselves. 

Edit: I'm not saying regs should be buying in 'for the good of the tour' or anything but the money has to come from somewhere. There isn't an endless pit of new players chucking money at the sats so a little more of the money needs to come from the regs. The only way I can see to do that is squeeze on the ticket freerolling.

 

[FeelsBadMan]

@MoreTBC what do you mean starting sats doesn't bring any more money to the tour, if the tournaments don't start, the people that bring the money won't play, will play something else or go to another site where games start.  If there are no games, there is no money. If no new players come the games slowly die, it's the case with literally any game, the weaker of the people with tickets will start losing theirs to the better ones until nobody is left. Advertising it brings new people and keeps the tour alive, having games start and are beatable is also an essential part of the equation. Don't really understand how any of the things you're suggesting help in any way with anything other than stopping the games.

As for busting the ticket bankrolls and buy-ing in straight cash, how many of the current players do you think will do that instead of quitting? The players that wouldn't quit are also the ones that won't bust. 

 

[pirahn]

@MoreTBC Sheldon Coopers mom had him tested twice to see if he was crazy, How many times has your mom had you tested.:haha:

@FeelsBadMan has come second twice and should pay for all losses incurred. This is a democracy so lets put it to a vote. All in favour say aye.

[MoreTBC]

I know you need players with tickets to help start but sats for the Irish Open/PCA/Sunday Million/etc start without ticket exchanges so why can't the UK tour with a limited exchange system?

 

I have no idea how many people would bust and not spend at least €0.01 trying to get back on the ladder but if they don't want to then they're not players really interesting in going are they?

 

The tickets are not going to get capped and the system is going to continue to get milked so let's agree to disagree and ride off into the sunset together? :)

[FeelsBadMan]

I will not agree to disagree until you use arguments that actually go somewhere, that's the whole fun of debating, and boy do I like debating :laugh: if you can provide valid counter arguments that is 😏

Those sattie systems start because they have a much larger playerpool in general, which is why I mentioned that the MTT system growing (which is the plan next year) will likely imprrove traffic in the UK tour as well. Also they are advertised better/more which is another thing that is already mentioned. 

Yeah maybe they will play some 0.01€'s how much money will that inject into the tour? a few € ? such money. At the same time 25€ less in the 25's 100€ less in the finals every week. If let's say a good player plays pure cash, no tickets, is he bringing money into the tour? No, he will win more than what he bought in so those packages the other people are winning won't be built on his money, everyone's profit comes from losing players, weather they lose real money or tickets, for the purpose of the tournament, the prizepool, the winnings, it's all the same. 

[pirahn]

@MoreTBC Lets take your premise and just give up all our tickets and start fresh. Will this in any way resolve the problem. The answer will be no. We will very quickly end up at same place. Trying to get more out of same players is always bad for busines. Poker is a high volume, low stakes business. we are missing volume in players. Similar thing happening with supernova. Overlays everywhere and giveaways to get close to the magic 200 players. The R/A is not working. Unless more players are enticed to join then there will be a sharp decrease in the guarantee. With Ireland opening up and the integration of Stan James there are opportunities for makeover and a relaunch.

[jonny2192]

@Leo-Unibet maybe a bit of a timing issue between the 2x25s could do with the first being finished before the second starts.

I was going to reg the late one but was still playing the previous one and didnt reg cos concentrating on that game. I like to keep my attention on the 25s when the blinds are getting higher so didnt really want to add in another game.

Also there was a runner up prize of 25 the player who won that may have jumper straight into the next 25 if it was running.

The picture above represents the fine balancing act Leo is trying at the moment with these games :)