Unibet UK Tour schedule updated

[ArtyMcFly]

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@jonny2192 wrote:

Wouldnt 1-5-25-100 make more sense seeing as you could then use a standard 5mtt or 25mtt to buy in and fits in with the other standard buy ins,

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I think there would be more liquidity and upward mobility if there was an additional step at the 10 euro level.

i.e. If it went 1 - 4 - 10 - 25 - 100, then there would probably be no need to have add-ons and rebuys at the 4 euro level. That game could guarantee 2x 10 euro tickets, and a new 10E level could guarantee 2 x 25 ticks.

The gap between 4 and 25 is so big that I fear many players (especially casual/recreational players) will just give up on the idea of trying to grind up through the levels.

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On a separate issue, I've only played a handful of the new 25s (qualify for UK100), and while I think they are a massive improvement on the old hyper-style crapshoots, I would like to recommend a couple of small changes.

1. While I like the deeper stacks and slower blinds, I think the games now have a duration that is a little too long for casual players. I would be in favour of reducing the starting stack to 3000 (100bb), as almost nothing interesting/important happens in the first 20-30 minutes.

2. Reduce the late registration period. While I understand that an extended late registration gives the tourneys a better chance of exceeding the guarantee, what happens in practice is that a handful of regs (not mentioning names, but they've posted in this thread and know who they are) wait until the absolute final minute before joining the game. While they get no ICM EV benefit from this (except in lopsided games where 1 player has a 10k stack and everyone else has about 2000, such that late regging immediately puts them in 2nd place!), the late reggers aren't random players that just logged on and are adding liquidity. They are regs that would have entered 40 minutes earlier if the late-reg period was reduced.

At the moment, it's kind of silly that I can play for 40 minutes and be 4th of 6, and have a standard satty strategy based on survival (just needing to outlast 2 or 3 players), and then suddenly 4 players arrive and I'm down to 8/10 and have to gamble it up. This might sound like sour grapes (it's not, as I had a 300% ROI last week), but it's incredibly annoying that I have to "earn" my way to a ticket by playing for over 90 minutes, but the late-reg snipers just have to win one flip. If the late registration period is going to stay at the ludicrously long 45 minutes or whatever it is, I may as well start doing it myself, since - as I said - the first 20-30 minutes of the game is almost pointless, and when almost half the field is max-late-regging, it still turns into a flippament.

[jonny2192]

REMKS 2+2 thoughts

Hi Leo,

I think it is approximately two weeks ago now, when I made my complaints post about the UK tour. Since then a lot has changed, and I think steps forward are made. So props to you for that. However, I still think there needs atleast one major change to be done and that is removing the Add-on in the UK4 (Qualifier to €25). First of all, I don't think it is really appealing to anyone to play a potential €12 game to win a €25 ticket. 

For recreational players, it is not really appealing if they start at the UK1 level and win a ticket, to then find out they have a huge disadvantage if they don't want to add-on with another €4. I want to point out as well that it is even more of a bad thing, because the regs have ticket stacks and can add-on ''easier'' that way. As the UKtour needs more players, so also new, recreational players, I think this is a crucial factor for the UKtour to have a positive future. Also this means late-regging is (sometimes) better, which is a potential factor in games not starting. Therefore, I think removing the option to add-on is the way to go at this point. 

There is another problem with the add-on, and that is more site specific than UK tour, but is IMO also a reason to remove add-on (atleast temporarily). I have had several times now, the add-on break started but there was still a hand going. Someone busted in that hand, and had to rebuy. However, this meant I got the rebuy popup as well instead of the add-on popup. Screenshot: https://gyazo.com/e9d3c3becfd37ea0534613177a0960cd Luckily I saw it on time this tournament, and after closing the rebuy window I could still press the add-on button, but it causes confusion and IMO is a really big bug in the system that needs to be fixed asap.

Once more, I think you did some good things last week by making some changes, and you do deserve the credits for it, but I think the Add-on in the €4 (Qualifier to 25) games is a really bad thing that has a negative impact on the future of the UK tour, so I hope you can reconsider this! Thanks in advance for replying to this post and #SavetheUKtour

I would really appreciate it if someone from here could copy/paste this post in the designated community thread with my name under it and also tag @Leo-Unibet in it.

[FeelsBadMan]

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@ArtyMcFly wrote:

I think there would be more liquidity and upward mobility if there was an additional step at the 10 euro level.

i.e. If it went 1 - 4 - 10 - 25 - 100, then there would probably be no need to have add-ons and rebuys at the 4 euro level. That game could guarantee 2x 10 euro tickets, and a new 10E level could guarantee 2 x 25 ticks.

 

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Well you kinda have this 10€ step right now, the 4€ is essntially a 10-12€ tournament, do you like it?

I for the most part see people not being too excited about the suuuper small steps, well with the exeption of DON regs from other sites, but other than that, are there that many players that would be like, yeahhh I want have a chance at playing this idk 250€ tournament so I'm registering for 100€ to this sattie, maybe I'll qualify. Same for all the other levels. For the most part I would just expect them to buy-in to the target event. And without them, well you don't get much value in a tournament. 

[ArtyMcFly]

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@FeelsBadMan wrote:

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Well you kinda have this 10€ step right now, the 4€ is essntially a 10-12€ tournament, do you like it?

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The 4 euro +RB/AO doesn't seem a logical 'step' at the moment, if the bottom rung of the ladder is 1 euro, and then the next game often requires the player to invest 8 or 12 euros. I think you get smoother movement (both up and down) if there are more buy-in levels in satty systems, just as there are in cash-games.

I mean, I've been "stuck" at the 25 euro level in the UK Tour all year, because I can only rarely afford to take a shot at the 100s. I'm not asking for a new in-between level there (the jump from 25 to 100 is bearable, whereas the jump from 4 to 25 is much bigger), but if there *was* a 50 euro level in the UKT, I doubtless would have played a few, because while I wasn't rolled for 100s, there were times where I had enough to spend 50 euros.

I'm sure there are lots of players that get stuck in the UK4s, because they need to win several before they are rolled to take a shot at the 25s. If the next level up only cost 10 euros to enter, I think it would be just as popular the UO10s. There must be plenty of people looking to spend 10 euros on a Friday night, but there aren't any UK satties at that price point, so those potential punters will go elsewhere.

[NeriPoker]

Completely agree with REMKS thoughts on the UK4. If it didn't have an add on I'd probably still play it. Unibet's nice ticket system allows me to just play the rebuy format but definitely not with an add on too. 

As it stands I'll dust off my remaining 25s and never play the satellites again due to these changes. 

[FeelsBadMan]

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@ArtyMcFly wrote:

The 4 euro +RB/AO doesn't seem a logical 'step' at the moment, if the bottom rung of the ladder is 1 euro, and then the next game often requires the player to invest 8 or 12 euros. I think you get smoother movement (both up and down) if there are more buy-in levels in satty systems, just as there are in cash-games.

I mean, I've been "stuck" at the 25 euro level in the UK Tour all year, because I can only rarely afford to take a shot at the 100s. I'm not asking for a new in-between level there (the jump from 25 to 100 is bearable, whereas the jump from 4 to 25 is much bigger), but if there *was* a 50 euro level in the UKT, I doubtless would have played a few, because while I wasn't rolled for 100s, there were times where I had enough to spend 50 euros.

I'm sure there are lots of players that get stuck in the UK4s, because they need to win several before they are rolled to take a shot at the 25s. If the next level up only cost 10 euros to enter, I think it would be just as popular the UO10s. There must be plenty of people looking to spend 10 euros on a Friday night, but there aren't any UK satties at that price point, so those potential punters will go elsewhere.

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I agree that the 4€ R/A completely screws over anyone trying to advance from the 1's and the centrolls. As for your argument about an intermediary level giving you the opportunity to play it faster cause you would be rolled for it faster, I'm not quite sure that would be the case, at least it wouldn't have a huge impact. You now say that you have been rolled for this hypothetical 50's a few times, but that roll came from playing the 1 in 4 satties. If you were to play DON satties 25 to 50, then your ROI would be greatly decreased in comparison (even if rake is reduced to match the format, cause if it's not, then, well, you might not even be profitable), and so you would have to play much more 25's to reach that bankroll to play the 50's in comparison to the old format. Of course this then would be compensated by the fact that you would end up grinding the 50's when you're eventually rolled for them and then you would probably have a slightly larger $/game than the current 25's despite the decreased ROI (if there is traffic and weaker players). All of this is assuming you would be equally skilled in both formats, if you're crap in 1/4 but a pro in 1/2 or viceversa, then whatever you're good at makes more money. 

And again I worry about who would actually play this format as it seems something that pretty much just the ticket grinders would register. 10€ is definitely a popular pricepoint and it mostly failed for the UK tour because for the most part it was just a 500 chip 3 minute blind game, but people are also interested in what they're buying for the price. A good example of this format you want is the 10 to 25 20 seat GTD icegiant satty, it NEVER got more than 20 players, if a 21'st would register someone would unregister, very few people if any wanted to actually play it and only registered for the free money.

And another argument against the DON format for satties would be this. How many players here got really pissed off when people sniped the bubble of the regular satties, imagine how prevelant that would be in a DON format, and how bad it would be when the extreme ICM of DONs would force people to blind out to a 1/10'th of a starting stack only for someone to join with a full stack and esentially be guaranteed a win. 

[Leo-Unibet]

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@FeelsBadMan wrote:

The 0 addons happened just because the addon break never came btw, so that needs to get fixed by next week since some players were folding to get to the addon while the big stacks were stealing away

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@FeelsBadMan You are correct, the addon breake didn't kicked in, that's fixed for next week

[pirahn]

There is another poker site running exactly the same tour with the same casinos and buy ins. After 2 events, they are now increasing the guarantee from £40k to £50k for Manchester. Its a bit cowardly as it will easily surpass 60k and im guessing nearer 70k. There is a big market & high demand. 

[NeriPoker]

Still no decent response to the multiple criticisms and flaws of UK4 being R/A. 

Pretty poor considering how responsive Unibet staff have been in the past. 

[MetalWolf]

Any more news yet on what the tour dates are? @Leo-Unibet

[Leo-Unibet]

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@MetalWolf wrote:

Any more news yet on what the tour dates are? @Leo-Unibet

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@MetalWolf Not yet but very soon I promise you

[Leo-Unibet]

@MetalWolf @NeriPoker @pirahn @FeelsBadMan @ArtyMcFly @jonny2192

For those of you that dosen't fanzy the rebuy option at the €4-->€25 level there is from today a daily freezeout option starting 19:25UK

 

[NeriPoker]

Thank you @Leo-Unibet I do think this is a step in the right direction for the satellite system as a whole. My gripes about the lower end of the sattys still stand but at least games like these make it affordable for recreational players such as myself. 

I would like to see that particular game put on a bit earlier in the night, maybe half 8, but that is just for my own personal reasons and circumstances so can't complain about that too much. 

[Leo-Unibet]

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@NeriPoker wrote:

Thank you @Leo-Unibet I do think this is a step in the right direction for the satellite system as a whole. My gripes about the lower end of the sattys still stand but at least games like these make it affordable for recreational players such as myself. 

 

I would like to see that particular game put on a bit earlier in the night, maybe half 8, but that is just for my own personal reasons and circumstances so can't complain about that too much. 

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@NeriPoker I swopped the 21:25 with 19:25, just for you! From tomorrow.

[NeriPoker]

Thanks @Leo-Unibet. Much appreciated. 

[NeriPoker]

The breaks in the half 8 uk4 need sorting out. There's a 3 minute break at ten minutes to the hour for an add on. Play then resumes for a couple of minutes then the normal break at 5 minutes to the hour. 

[bizarre12]

@Leo-Unibet

My opinion (~1 month of new schedule):

- centrolls and 1€'s are OK;

- 4€'s are pretty bad with that addon. 8-12€ entry for 25€ prize is the lowest prize/entry ratio in the UK Sats and when we are ITM, most of the prizes are 4€ tickets, while we invest up to 12€. I think, that it will be a good idea to remove the addon from most popular 4€ UK games and allow up to 1 re-entry.

-25€'s are horrible in that format - too deep and too slow for those tiny tourneys. In the first ~40+ minutes nothing is happening, 4-5 players regs it from the beginning (to be able to start) and the others are waiting till the last minutes (I will not mention how "bug free" late reg is). The first 25€ game starts sometimes, but the second one starts maybe once a week at best. The old structure was way better than this one, I even do not know why the structure was changed, just cut some of the GTD here and there. I think, that a good idea will be to bring back the old structure for those tourneys or make them much faster.

-100€'s are OK, but could be better, if you add some 1 package GTD tourney in the middle of the week.

Thank you!

[Ja-z-Polszy]

@Leo-Unibet 1500€ final are on Saturday now ? Why not Sunday ?

[Leo-Unibet]

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@NeriPoker wrote:

The breaks in the half 8 uk4 need sorting out. There's a 3 minute break at ten minutes to the hour for an add on. Play then resumes for a couple of minutes then the normal break at 5 minutes to the hour. 

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@NeriPoker    Please disambiguate some of your statements:

1. Half 8 .... is that UK time or CET, by the way there is no daily UK Tour related tournaments starting 30 minutes past full hour.

2. uk4..... is that winning a uk4 ticket or buyin a uk4 ticket

To be continue 😃

 

 

 

 

[Leo-Unibet]

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@Ja-z-Polszy wrote:

@Leo-Unibet 1500€ final are on Saturday now ? Why not Sunday ?

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@Ja-z-Polszy It's been saturdays all the time, sunday was a typo in the first announcement

[MoreTBC]

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@Leo-Unibet wrote:

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@NeriPoker wrote:

The breaks in the half 8 uk4 need sorting out. There's a 3 minute break at ten minutes to the hour for an add on. Play then resumes for a couple of minutes then the normal break at 5 minutes to the hour. 

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@NeriPoker    Please disambiguate some of your statements:

1. Half 8 .... is that UK time or CET, by the way there is no daily UK Tour related tournaments starting 30 minutes past full hour.

2. uk4..... is that winning a uk4 ticket or buyin a uk4 ticket

To be continue 😃

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@Leo-Unibet, I think @NeriPoker is refering to the 20:25 GMT tournament. It's close enough to half past to count as that :)

In general everyone seems to refer to the tour sats as the buying amount so the UK1 is the €1 buy-in, UK4 is the €4 buy-in etc. 

I also thought the UK tour finals used to be on a Sunday (pre schedule changes) which is why I've stopped playing them.

[bergeroo]

When and where is the next Unibet UK tour stop? You've been running satellites for it for weeks but I don't see it listed when and where the next stop is? I'm a bit confused!

[NeriPoker]

@MoreTBC is correct.

@Leo-Unibet The €4 rebuy game which starts at 20:25 GMT had weird breaks as stated above. Not sure if that's still the case. 

Disappointed to see that 2x UK4 games didn't run last night due to lack of players. Strange for a Sunday night. I really think people are turned off with it being R/A. 

 

[Leo-Unibet]

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@bergeroo wrote:

When and where is the next Unibet UK tour stop? You've been running satellites for it for weeks but I don't see it listed when and where the next stop is? I'm a bit confused!

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@bergeroo Dates will be confirmed ery soon.

[pirahn]

@Leo-Unibet You guys may wish to check out spt tour which has been out for a while when deciding dates. I wanted to pm Simon who is in charge but not sure of his id on here.