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Tillus Rank 12
Rank 12

Thanks alot @DavidP_Unibet for your elaborate response.

I was ofc purposely painting a very dark picture with my OP trying to get a discussion started (not trying to present Unibet/kindred as the impersonation of evil, nor start a conspiracy or anything). So far I have usually been complimenting on the things Unibet did that I appreciated a lot (their HUD-free approach, refundings at server downtimes or lately the big refund wave when that big 50K mtt was buggy), so I felt I should also express when I see a development that I don't like. To be fair, I missed out on your point of the betting freerolls for instance, which (can) get sports bettors interested into playing playing poker and yes, this way of cross selling players was there first (apart from casino hotlink on poker tables), so It's a valid point. cow.jpg

 About the whole milk the cow phrase, which apparently rubbed you the wrong way: this was not only meant to be provocative (well, to some extend yes sry Cheeky) or stating a definitve truth. I was having the past developments of other poker sites on mind, when it comes to implementing more and more casino incentives into their clients, which I personally never liked. Partypoker underwent this way back in the day, and as someone who has been observing the development of pokerstars in the recent years, I might be hypersensitive when it comes to this. I know u can't really compare unibetpoker to stars which was poker only from the beginning, but watching this ship gradually sink from the POV of a pokerplayer was and is sad thing, and I simply don't want unibet to go this way and I'm happily being proved wrong. I mean ask me 8 years ago what the most trustworthy & ethical pokersite is and I am definitely saying stars. Right now I am saying that about Unibet also, and I know having a casino bonus as a poker reward once isn't gonna flip the script. But is it a one-time thing, is it gonna stay like that or is there even coming more stuff like that?! How am I supposed to know that, of course I don't. I just want the players to have second thoughts about changes and I love that Unibet has a platform where such topics can be discussed and where officials actually respond to the players concerns, if a paranoid freak like me comes around Laugh

However, ''including Casino as part of the Poker client as a massive benefit to the growth of the platform'' i  just dont see the logic behind it. How can you assure that? I see the cross-selling from betting to poker and vice versa through the betting freeroll, but there? You don't have to download the client to play casino games and i guess most ppl don't?! And I'm pretty sure you're gonna have a hard time finding the poker hotbuttons on casino tablegames, so how is this not going to be a one-sided thing?! Am I missing something here?

Cheers,

Tillus

 

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Unibet Employee DavidP_Unibet
Unibet Employee

DepchZ wrote:

DavidP_Unibet wrote:

DepchZ wrote:

This explanation provided was good and it's nice to know that it's not an intended model.

I am pondering something between the finer nuances of things here. There seems to be quite a few players who have banned casino from themselves acknowledging that it's an area of gaming that can cause them problems even in this thread. Promotions are just promotions and missing on those is fine and it's a personal decision you have chosen to avoid something. What needs to be addressed is however that do poker players who have banned casino from themselves miss out on some loyalty rewards? It's important can it be perceived as a true loyalty reward or more of a promotion of something if something is not given in instead. I'm just asking because I don't know, it at least should be something Unibet should acknowledge. This carries beyond poker to all areas of gaming sectors and their loyalty rewards. Smile

The solution obviously is a more personalized loyalty reward system.



Personally I think that the loyalty system (Challenges) can be considered 'loyalty' and something the player can expect based on their regular play. In that regard, there is a good argument to say that loyalty should only ever include poker rewards or cash.

Anything else I would class as a tool Unibet has to try to incentivise or reward certain groups of players. We might use those tools (such as missions, double trouble or monthly promotions) in different ways each month and if we really lost our minds then we might decide to scrap them altogher. I think getting used to something that's always there and being entitled to something are two different things though.


If you mean the missions in the poker room I must disagree on that definition of being a loyalty. They provide incentive to complete the tasks but it is not directly loyalty from playing poker at the tables for example. In other big rooms it's directly some points or rake back to the player playing. Maybe you meant some other poker challenges that I'm not aware of since I'm a casual player to poker. I'm planning to start spending more money on some tournaments and sng:s though at Unibet. This case was just very interesting to me overall and I got curious regarding all the nuances and stuff what goes on behind the mind of the company doing these things. There is no quarrel here, just out of sheer curiousity (I possess an inquisitive mind and it's not something to always like, I don't bring it out always though and usually just leave it be publicly).

To not leave everything at critcism only here I must point out that the community challenges here definately fit to a loyalty reward category for active and general players playing at Unibet. So there is reason to be happy from that alone as well (always look on the bright side of... etc.). Smile


I mean Challenges (click in the profile section of the poker client and have a look). It pays out depending on your play at cash game and SNG tables or your buyins for MTTs. Anything on top of Challenges I don't personally class as loyalty because everything else changes on a month to month basis. As a customer elsewhere I expect loyalty to be consistent and based directly on what I do. If you are planning to play more MTTs at Unibet then you might be interested in another thread I'm going to start tonight...

“Heroes are heroes because they are heroic in behavior, not because they won or lost.”
― Nassim Nicholas Taleb
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Unibet Employee DavidP_Unibet
Unibet Employee

Tillus wrote:

Thanks alot @DavidP_Unibet for your elaborate response.

I was ofc purposely painting a very dark picture with my OP trying to get a discussion started (not trying to present Unibet/kindred as the impersonation of evil, nor start a conspiracy or anything). So far I have usually been complimenting on the things Unibet did that I appreciated a lot (their HUD-free approach, refundings at server downtimes or lately the big refund wave when that big 50K mtt was buggy), so I felt I should also express when I see a development that I don't like. To be fair, I missed out on your point of the betting freerolls for instance, which (can) get sports bettors interested into playing playing poker and yes, this way of cross selling players was there first (apart from casino hotlink on poker tables), so It's a valid point. cow.jpg

 About the whole milk the cow phrase, which apparently rubbed you the wrong way: this was not only meant to be provocative (well, to some extend yes sry Cheeky) or stating a definitve truth. I was having the past developments of other poker sites on mind, when it comes to implementing more and more casino incentives into their clients, which I personally never liked. Partypoker underwent this way back in the day, and as someone who has been observing the development of pokerstars in the recent years, I might be hypersensitive when it comes to this. I know u can't really compare unibetpoker to stars which was poker only from the beginning, but watching this ship gradually sink from the POV of a pokerplayer was and is sad thing, and I simply don't want unibet to go this way and I'm happily being proved wrong. I mean ask me 8 years ago what the most trustworthy & ethical pokersite is and I am definitely saying stars. Right now I am saying that about Unibet also, and I know having a casino bonus as a poker reward once isn't gonna flip the script. But is it a one-time thing, is it gonna stay like that or is there even coming more stuff like that?! How am I supposed to know that, of course I don't. I just want the players to have second thoughts about changes and I love that Unibet has a platform where such topics can be discussed and where officials actually respond to the players concerns, if a paranoid freak like me comes around Laugh

However, ''including Casino as part of the Poker client as a massive benefit to the growth of the platform'' i  just dont see the logic behind it. How can you assure that? I see the cross-selling from betting to poker and vice versa through the betting freeroll, but there? You don't have to download the client to play casino games and i guess most ppl don't?! And I'm pretty sure you're gonna have a hard time finding the poker hotbuttons on casino tablegames, so how is this not going to be a one-sided thing?! Am I missing something here?

Cheers,

Tillus

 


You're welcome and I really am glad for your post, I think any post that calls for debate is a positive.

I get that you were painting the darkest possible picture and I didn't mean to come across as if you'd rubbed me the wrong way, I was merely typing away passionately! As a player I'd probably question a change like this too, given the recent history of the poker industry. I'm glad that we've done enough over the last few years that players are at least willing to hear us out.

On the last point; the Casino buttons and free spins in the Mission aren't there primarily to appeal to Casino players (although they do), they are there for us to cross sell players to Casino. One reason we do that is because players trying all products has an added benefit for Unibet in that those players stay with the company for longer. However, the main reason I am interested in doing that is so that we are in turn allowed to cross sell players from Casino into Poker, and that has a huge potential pay-off for us. There is a project on the horizon which will allow us to communicate Poker offers to low stakes casino players but we're only allowed to do that if we are also making efforts to cross sell the other way. That is a huge amount of players who could potentially try out Poker for the first time (go back to your comparisons of the size of Casino compared to Poker at Unibet). If only a small % decide they want to try out Poker then we will receive a lot of new, casual poker players. I want to grow Unibet Poker and those potential new players cause me to get excited. 

 

“Heroes are heroes because they are heroic in behavior, not because they won or lost.”
― Nassim Nicholas Taleb
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Unibet Employee DavidP_Unibet
Unibet Employee

I should also add that most companies are only interested in cross-selling into Casino, not out of it. We've been able to demonstrate that there is value to the company in cross-selling both ways and Poker on this site will benefit from it.

“Heroes are heroes because they are heroic in behavior, not because they won or lost.”
― Nassim Nicholas Taleb
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DepchZ Rank 12
Rank 12

DavidP_Unibet wrote:

I mean Challenges (click in the profile section of the poker client and have a look). It pays out depending on your play at cash game and SNG tables or your buyins for MTTs. Anything on top of Challenges I don't personally class as loyalty because everything else changes on a month to month basis. As a customer elsewhere I expect loyalty to be consistent and based directly on what I do. If you are planning to play more MTTs at Unibet then you might be interested in another thread I'm going to start tonight...

OK, Thank you very much for taking time to explain these things to me. I'm also sorry as my questions were based on the original topic but my questions that arose derailed it to a bit of a sub thread of it's own.

I don't know how I had missed the shop / challenges section. I was looking for the bonus shop elsewhere and just didn't pay much attention to the profile page even though I have a few profiles created. I'm sure I'm not the only one more casual to poker to have missed that. The challenges do look like that they are related to playing poker at the tables and make it not necessary to astray from what you really want to play to get points as opposed to the missions that might force you to take a broader look of the games.

Overall I think Unibet has answered the questions under this topic well and it's good for everyone to read who has questions regarding ethics and loyality in the poker side of the game. I hope poker keeps growing there as well.

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Unibet Employee DavidP_Unibet
Unibet Employee

@DepchZ

You're definietly not the first casual player to miss Challenges, it's a usability issue we're going to be trying to address. Ideally the loyalty system would be easy to understand and easily visible as soon as you start playing. The widget on the cash game table is step towards that but ultimately it's still too complicated. 

“Heroes are heroes because they are heroic in behavior, not because they won or lost.”
― Nassim Nicholas Taleb
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