February DaVitsche StreamLeague (03/02), €250 in prizes + extra €250! for subs + changes!

[DaVitsche]

Wassup everybody

I hope you guys are ready for another DaVitsche StreamLeague! The next one will be on Saturday February 3rd. This will be the last one with this exact setup, as we have some really cool changes coming up the next month. I'll explain everything on stream during this StreamLeague, and will post it here on unibetcommunity as well. Short version: We have a cool extra tournament for loyal viewers, and at the end of the season you can win a Unibet Open Package!

Just a short reminder. We'll have a One-day league, 10x €1 MTTs starting every hour from 12am CET! €250 Leaderboard prizes for all viewers and this month we have an additional €250 leaderboard for the subcribers of my channel! Passwords will be announced on stream (twitch.tv/DaVitsche)
It will be very similar to the community leaderboard.

Prizes: 

1st place: €100 Supernova Ticket
2nd: 2x€25 Ice Giant Ticket
3nd-4th: €25 Ice Giant Ticket
5th-9th: €10 Cosmic Ray Ticket

For subs there's an additional leaderboard
Best Sub: €100 Supernova Ticket + 2x €25 Ice Giant Tickets
2nd Sub: 3x €25 Ice Giant Tickets
3rd Sub: 1x €25 Ice Giant Ticket

Rules:

- All MTT's will be 9-handed, structure TBA, probably Turbo (4-5 min lvls) with a €1 Buy-in
- Use the same alias in all tournaments (Mulitple aliasses will not be merged, only 1 prize per player)
- Best 3 results count
- Subs must whisper me their alias before! starting or they'll just be counted as plebs
- Things might be added/change later. So keep an eye out on this thread! Feel free to suggest improvements etc.
- In case of a Tie, the winner will be drawn on stream
- If you sub during the day, only your results after the subscription will count towards the sub prize

Points:

No matter the number of players taking part, these points will be available for all league tournaments.

Position	Points
1	40
2	35
3	30
4	25
5	20
6	18
7	16
8	14
9	12
10	11
11	10
12	9
13	8
14	7
15-20	6
21-30	5

[DaVitsche]

LEADPOS	ALIAS	TOTAL	HIGH1	HIGH2	HIGH3	SUB
1	Illkickyou	94	40	40	14
2	Discord	86	40	35	11	X
3	Nielu256	80	40	30	10	X
4	Neumanriel	70	40	25	5	X
5	Leipa	69	35	18	16	X
6	Maestro1908	66	35	25	6	X
7	trypek20	65	35	30	0
8	HiDaVitsche	63	30	25	8	X
9	EatMoreNaga	62	30	25	7	X
10	bankomata	61	35	18	8
11	Petrica1	60	20	20	20
12	wwaanneess	57	35	16	6	X
13	EL_HEFAZO	56	30	16	10
14	Psycho79	55	40	9	6
15	-ihave6acc	53	25	14	14
16	SuperNoud	50	20	16	14	X
17	yarik_gr	50	35	9	6
18	nurby8	48	30	12	6
19	jerry9	46	20	20	6
20	Oanaaaaaaaa	45	40	5	0
21	Celph	44	25	14	5
22	Cheers_Mate_	42	25	11	6	X
23	reluni	42	30	6	6
24	1andy1	40	40	0	0	X
25	Chameleon75	40	40	0	0
26	DuckieLucky	40	40	0	0
27	HOMOPETTERI	39	18	12	9
28	MijatS	36	25	6	5
29	blom1006	35	35	0	0	X
30	Ener292	35	35	0	0
31	MEDICATED2	35	35	0	0
32	DaWitcher	34	20	8	6
33	DayMar	32	12	11	9
34	Enter_alias-	31	18	8	5
35	Larexb1	31	25	6	0
36	hahaha22	30	30	0	0
37	lachkick12	30	30	0	0
38	MrPenguins	30	30	0	0
39	jyfmjuf	29	18	6	5
40	BetteWachOut	27	16	6	5
41	HAI_ROMANIA	26	14	6	6	X
42	Krypton173	26	16	5	5	X
43	Mirazas	26	16	5	5
44	0scar	25	20	5	0
45	DaszZlocisza	25	25	0	0
46	Bubbleboy	24	11	7	6
47	MikeMersey	24	10	8	6	X
48	fish_er	23	18	5	0
49	ikmes	23	11	6	6
50	Taut98	23	12	6	5
51	geek666	22	10	6	6
52	4815162342	21	11	5	5	X
53	dts5	21	10	6	5
54	ItsMinePot	21	8	7	6
55	pandoora384	21	10	6	5
56	-Kirederf-	20	20	0	0
57	ovromania	20	20	0	0
58	PhussyBoi	20	9	6	5
59	duckroy	19	14	5	0	X
60	Goldenberry	19	8	6	5
61	JuhaniKartio	19	14	5	0
62	csipa	18	18	0	0
63	dorikdor	18	18	0	0
64	Hotzonicu	18	7	6	5	X
65	LA_DISCORDA	18	7	6	5	X
66	mctheBesT	18	18	0	0
67	P5YCH3D3LIC5	18	18	0	0
68	diet_worked	17	7	5	5	X
69	nuaudi5	17	12	5	0
70	predador1	17	11	6	0
71	CwazyRabby	16	16	0	0
72	E_MOE67	16	6	5	5
73	ElyRud	16	10	6	0
74	Kepcsi85	16	16	0	0
75	OGLE-TR-122b	16	6	5	5
76	ozsviii2	16	16	0	0
77	PROSTO08	16	11	5	0
78	willrockyou	16	11	5	0
79	Goodmayer7	15	10	5	0
80	Finger2	14	14	0	0
81	DaLooser	12	12	0	0
82	DonkCorle0ne	12	12	0	0
83	mcvol1986	12	12	0	0
84	ThouFallen	12	12	0	0
85	losumbrelos	12	12	0	0
86	FeelsBadMan	11	6	5	0	X
87	MoneyForBeer	11	6	5	0	X
88	Morly	11	6	5	0
89	epiphany365	11	11	0	0
90	DaVitsche	10	5	5	0	X
91	devildom999	10	5	5	0
92	jel_	10	5	5	0
93	pianocat88	10	5	5	0
94	ptrh	10	10	0	0
95	Remk_95	10	5	5	0	X
96	FleeYouPurdy	10	10	0	0
97	hereisrivaldo	9	9	0	0	X
98	Kevathallam	9	9	0	0
99	kolo	9	9	0	0
100	PeeKaaBoo	9	9	0	0

 

[DaVitsche]

101	Dorin615	8	8	0	0
102	Verokarhu	8	8	0	0
103	Ladnesor3	8	8	0	0
104	Maliblue	7	7	0	0
105	5aR1uK4s	6	6	0	0
106	Gezinustrimp	6	6	0	0
107	KK_okgoodbye	6	6	0	0
108	LadyLuck10	6	6	0	0
109	Mojsz	6	6	0	0
110	pannncake	6	6	0	0
111	Snoaw32	6	6	0	0
112	VictoriaJune	6	6	0	0
113	wilson06	6	6	0	0
114	Blandevann	5	5	0	0
115	Cezcarino	5	5	0	0
116	cgc	5	5	0	0
117	CUwhenUGT	5	5	0	0
118	dedmaxor	5	5	0	0
119	drareia	5	5	0	0
120	ESZTER3	5	5	0	0
121	justluckbox	5	5	0	0
122	maestro19O8	5	5	0	0
123	MrGoldspade	5	5	0	0
124	Spurgu83	5	5	0	0
125	TUL	5	5	0	0
126	VandenBluff	5	5	0	0
127	VanTanngo	5	5	0	0
128	Vendelbo16	5	5	0	0
129	YOGGIBOSS	5	5	0	0
130	ZATTE_RITA	5	5	0	0
131	puffpuffpas2	5	5	0	0
132	Aahrrgg	5	5	0	0

[4soul]

Nice, we wait for that!:inlove:

[fornicator99]

Good stuff!

[wwaanneess]

Woop wooop

[MrBandes]

Ok, Great, Fantastic. Well in time announced 😏, not like the last time when i missed the first 5 tourneys after a long night's sleep. Still made 3 final tables, i think it was, 4th, 5th, 6th, but bubbled any tickets :sad:.

There was one thing which was coming up in me time and time again, which is that personally i don't like the structure.

The tourney starts, we have about 100 big blinds, thats ok, 15 minute later i guess like 60, and so on. Still relatively enough to play well and wait for good hands, and not have to gamble. But at the bubble already things begin to start getting bingo. I know it's usually every bubble, but here i think it's a bit more extreme. Now if you noticed at the final tables average stack usually is about 8 big blinds. I might not be precise, but i think i am around about near the truth. We have about 80 players on average per tourney. We start with 3000 chips if i am right. Which means total chips is about 240k. 9 players => 26k average. And how much is the blind level at the final table, well i am not sure but would guess about 4k ? Thats not even 8 BB. I don't really have precise numbers, but i remember things were pretty bad. Mincash is about 3 Euros, and the Final Table Shootout Bingo Bonanza decides who gets €30(or ~€25 sometimes) and 9th place is usually around €5. So money is being bingoed away in my point of view. I was playing pretty well in the early phases many times, built up a stack, sometimes enough for a FT already, and then at the bubble i hated that my chips were almost worth like "now i have to jam all of it with A10o or KQo, but i don't really want to, but i have to, damn". And of course on a couple of occasions i busted because eventually lost flips with good decent hands, and all the great play until then was up in smoke.

I wouldn't really mind if the structure was a little deeper, like we would start with 5000 chips or 6000 maybe. Or do something about the blind levels. It's no problem if i would have 3 tables open at the same time, or even 4. Don't mind to have to play more in that time. If we could have 30 minute longer tourneys, that would make it less bingo i am sure. This turbo-like structure seems to be the same as we have in all the freerolls here (Davitsche freeroll, Social Media freeroll and the rest) where we have on average 500 to 800 players (!) There is a lot of bingo too, but still on a Final table, like 10 times more chips to play with and blind levels maybe just a few levels higher. So yeah, all in all i am not sure this structure is the best for 80 players. Maybe we could have deeper stacks with faster blind levels, that would mean the tourney wouldnt last much longer, but average stack would be higher in blinds.

But of course this is only my personal opinion, i am not an expert in these. Most people might be happy with bingoing anyway and they would say, "yeah but we have 10 tourneys, you will have enough time and hands to get lucky etc."

Another idea which came into my mind is that when we are playing for the overall results and need one more good finishing, we could have the last 3, 2 or 1 tourney with rebuy option (?) Perhaps. Whatever. 10 tourneys should be enough. But like when you need one more good result and you get coolered out could still reenter once more. 

But the first one is the more important one. What's your thoughts on these ?

[nekoneko]

I for one like them the way they are.  It's better for them to be fast.

Any decision for changing them should be done in a poll, not on a single guy suggestion. As for reentry.. that usualy causes a  lot of all in's at start from the people with more money, no ?

[MrBandes]

Ok, then let's make a poll! Here is my suggestion. We have the €1 buyin Singularity every day at 19:00CET which is also a 9-seat tournament. I think it has a better structure, although it's slower too. But we could make it faster by making the levels shorter. I calculated three modified versions. My guess is the tourneys will be over at least on level 32, probably quite a few levels earlier. But if we get to level 32, here are the time calculations:

Singularity Default
12 x 6 = 72
20 x 4 = 80
152 minutes = 2.5 hours

A
12 x 4 = 48
20 x 3 = 60
108 minutes = 1.8 hours

B
12 x 3 = 36
20 x 3 = 60
96 minutes = 1.6 hours

C
12 x 3 = 36
20 x 2 = 40
76 minutes = 1.25 hours

Version A would probably last a bit more than one and a half hours, so we would have 2 tourneys overlayed a bit longer than usual. Still probably end before the third tourney kicks in. Version B would last around one and a half hours. Version C would last about the same time as the ones we were playing.

But we could have enough big blinds to play POST FLOP on final tables and not have to just SHOVE or FOLD.

I think i am precise +/- 10 minutes. I am checking now the Singularity running which is slower than any of these, and the final table is starting about now after 85 minutes of playing. So it will probably last about two hours, which would be i guess too much for us with having 3 tourneys running at the same time.

I am ok with B or C version too. Make it faster but with deeper stacks.

Ironically i am not sure i would make better results with deeper stacks playing, but if i would reach final tables i am sure i would be less tilted with busting because i would not feel handcuffed like jamming pocket fours with 6 big blinds and have to pray to see if i win €15 more or not.

[FreedoM]

@MrBandes I like the structure as it is, fast and furious. I plan on playing other games to and i'm sure other people will do the same. So by making the structure slow i for one will skip them unless i feel like playing 20 hrs of poker and 12-20 tabling. Witch i assure you anyone who doesn't grind poker will not want to do. And i don't understand why do we even have this conversation, the majority of people like the fast structure. I think it's rude that u even try to change them in the first place, the only guy that has a say in it is @DaVitsche. He created the league as a bonus for his stream. And you are missing the point of poker by just taking it to serious.

[MrBandes]

Update : I was wrong about length of the Singularity. Got fooled myself a bit cause i was looking at the wrong tournament(€2 Wormhole) when calculating.

It's running 140 minutes now and still 20 players left.

It looks like the levels are all 6 minutes on the Singularity and 4 minutes on the Wormhole. My mistake. 

But the blinds are all the same, just the level jumps take different times. So we could have 3 minute levels and bigger starting stack 4000 or 5000. That would do the damage 😀

It would be really nice if we would have bigger average blinds on final table.

[MrBandes]

---

@FreedoM wrote:

@MrBandes I like the structure as it is, fast and furious. I plan on playing other games to and i'm sure other people will do the same. So by making the structure slow i for one will skip them unless i feel like playing 20 hrs of poker and 12-20 tabling. Witch i assure you anyone who doesn't grind poker will not want to do. And i don't understand why do we even have this conversation, the majority of people like the fast structure. I think it's rude that u even try to change them in the first place, the only guy that has a say in it is @DaVitsche. He created the league as a bonus for his stream. And you are missing the point of poker by just taking it to serious.

---

I am saying we could make it even more fast with a little deeper stacks and overall it would last the same length, but it would be less bingo. 

Or we could have just flip tournaments 😏

[FreedoM]

@MrBandes Maybe your right and it could be better but i really think you should talk it with DaVitsche in private and if he agrees with you then make a new post and ask the people who play it what they think. I love your commitment but u must make it properly. Good night my friend. #TakeNRG #BlessRNG

[DaVitsche]

I like the fact that it's a fair fight for everyone, so I'm going to go ahead and say "Nay" to the idea of making reentries.

It was a lot of text to go trough and as a starter, let me point out that I am no expert in tournament structures.

The idea is that I only have to play 2 tables max at any given time, so that I can maintain maximum focus on streaming to truly make this an interactive, community driven stream. So the structure now has definitaly proven it's worth. They last around 1h45-2h10, which allows me to focus on the final table of one of the tournaments (regardless of whether i'm on it), while playing the next tournament. I noticed some tournaments breaking the 2h mark last month, which already creates some practical issues. So I for sure don't want them to last much longer than now.

Your suggestion for faster structure with deeper stacks seems weird, Isn't this even worse? Turbo Deepstacks are reg favourites, because recreational players don't even realize they're playing a turbo. You suggested longer levels at first, to then speed up. again, same issue I think.

Just look at these tournaments as the perfect opportunity to play deepstacked in the early level, to then switch to training your push/fold strategy :D May I suggest the app FloatTheTurn which now also includes callingranges vs shoves (check my tweet). The irony of calling a push/fold app "Float The Turn" seems to escape everyone though.

In short, this works, I have a lot of fun doing these streams, and the community's response is overwhelmingly positive, so I'm not planning to change the structure for this edition.

After this edition, I'll follow up the data, start/stop times etc and I'll ask Leo, Dara, Lappin, Daiva & Ian's opinion on the matter. Maybe they have a good idea that is the perfect middle ground without making the tournaments longer.

[MrBandes]

---

@DaVitsche wrote:

I like the fact that it's a fair fight for everyone, so I'm going to go ahead and say "Nay" to the idea of making reentries.

It was a lot of text to go trough and as a starter, let me point out that I am no expert in tournament structures.

The idea is that I only have to play 2 tables max at any given time, so that I can maintain maximum focus on streaming to truly make this an interactive, community driven stream. So the structure now has definitaly proven it's worth. They last around 1h45-2h10, which allows me to focus on the final table of one of the tournaments (regardless of whether i'm on it), while playing the next tournament. I noticed some tournaments breaking the 2h mark last month, which already creates some practical issues. So I for sure don't want them to last much longer than now.

Your suggestion for faster structure with deeper stacks seems weird, Isn't this even worse? Turbo Deepstacks are reg favourites, because recreational players don't even realize they're playing a turbo. You suggested longer levels at first, to then speed up. again, same issue I think.

Just look at these tournaments as the perfect opportunity to play deepstacked in the early level, to then switch to training your push/fold strategy :D May I suggest the app FloatTheTurn which now also includes callingranges vs shoves (check my tweet). The irony of calling a push/fold app "Float The Turn" seems to escape everyone though.

In short, this works, I have a lot of fun doing these streams, and the community's response is overwhelmingly positive, so I'm not planning to change the structure for this edition.

After this edition, I'll follow up the data, start/stop times etc and I'll ask Leo, Dara, Lappin, Daiva & Ian's opinion on the matter. Maybe they have a good idea that is the perfect middle ground without making the tournaments longer.

---

Fair fight for everyone ? Really ? Any way it's a fair fight for everyone, any rules apply to all.

What i am saying is that you can be chipleader at a final table you lose two flips and you are out, while you win two flips as short stack suddenly you are the chipleader.

And there is no room for playing. You can't wait orbits for hands, it's ridiculous. The luckiest players at the final tables will win the most money. Ok, we will have 10 opportunities to flip lucky.

I took the time and shared my thoughts. Fine, just leave it as it is. I will take a look at my shove charts and tilt everyone else. I am gonna be playing my "Jack Three suited Jam" game. I realised already in the past it takes no sense to play sanely when the bingo players win the most. It will be +EV to gamble and shove half crap hands. Queen Eight suited, i call a jam, hit a straight or a flush, two pair fine. Great Poker!

Don't know why it's worse to have faster levels with deeper stacks. It's probably just different. I was just thinking it would be better perhaps because of the more blinds.

Will take a look at the app, i had it once installed already in the past but did not find it useful. I mostly know anyway what to shove, that just won't guarantee anything, because flips are flips.

 

[Caladrias]

@MrBandes, increasing stack sizes and making the levels shorter, would only make the 'problem' bigger. If anything, the stack sizes should be decreased (say starting stacks of 50BB) and the levels should be longer. This would result in a smoother tournament regarding average stacks. I.e. result in less 'bingo' at the final table. 

But I don't see the problem. What you call 'bingo', is just what naturally happens in a turbo/hyperturbo. And it is something you can train yourself for, by studying push/fold ranges as Davitsche mentioned in the post above. Which will make you a lot of money in the long run, in any turbo MTT/SNG you'll ever play. There's a lot more to this than just shoving and hoping for the best. 

You mentioned that the freerolls have the same structure, but end up with deeper stacked FTs. It's a good point to make, but you should also understand why this happens. In freerolls, a lot of people don't care at all about the tournament, and constantly go all in in all sorts of spots. This results in a lot of bustouts throughout the whole tournament, which results in a bigger average stack throughout the whole tournament. In Davitsches tournaments however, people play less recklessly to start with. Moreover, there are 2 bubbles: a points bubble and a money bubble. As you know, bubbles slow down the action a lot. And after these bubbles, people still play slower because they want to ladder in both the points and the money. As a result, people play way tighter than they actually should, fewer people bust and there you have it: very small stacks at the final table. 

I like the tournaments a lot as they are too. It is indeed mainly push/folding at the end, and you'll need to get lucky a few times. But that's just how it goes in turbos. And even more in a turbo with two bubbles. And that's great for recreational players. With a slower structure, they would have even smaller chances to win anything in these leagues  compared to the regs. And after all I think Davitsche mainly wants these MTTs to be a lot of fun for the recreational players on the site, instead of creating a ticket hunt for regulars. 

[DaVitsche]

---

@Caladrias wrote:

And after all I think Davitsche mainly wants these MTTs to be a lot of fun for the recreational players on the site, instead of creating a ticket hunt for regulars. 

---

This couldn't be more right.

[SCOBY]

I play with the SCOBY alias.

[Neumanriel]

Hello.
Where can I write my alias?

[FreedoM]

@SCOBY@NeumanrielYou don't need to put your alias here. Just whisper your alias to DaVitsche on Twitch before you play the league if you are a subscriber to his channel if your not a sub you don't need to whisper him your alias just play with the same alias in all the MTTs.

[Neumanriel]

Yes. I am subscriber.
Just write my alias in chat before tournaments?

[FreedoM]

@Neumanriel No, you whisper it to him. If you click his name in chat will see the whisper button. 😉

[Neumanriel]

Got it.
Thank you freedom.