DaVitsche Posted January 25, 2018 Share Posted January 25, 2018 Wassup everybodyI hope you guys are ready for another DaVitsche StreamLeague! The next one will be on Saturday February 3rd. This will be the last one with this exact setup, as we have some really cool changes coming up the next month. I'll explain everything on stream during this StreamLeague, and will post it here on unibetcommunity as well. Short version: We have a cool extra tournament for loyal viewers, and at the end of the season you can win a Unibet Open Package!Just a short reminder. We'll have a One-day league, 10x €1 MTTs starting every hour from 12am CET! €250 Leaderboard prizes for all viewers and this month we have an additional €250 leaderboard for the subcribers of my channel! Passwords will be announced on stream (twitch.tv/DaVitsche) It will be very similar to the community leaderboard.Prizes: 1st place: €100 Supernova Ticket 2nd: 2x€25 Ice Giant Ticket 3nd-4th: €25 Ice Giant Ticket 5th-9th: €10 Cosmic Ray TicketFor subs there's an additional leaderboardBest Sub: €100 Supernova Ticket + 2x €25 Ice Giant Tickets2nd Sub: 3x €25 Ice Giant Tickets3rd Sub: 1x €25 Ice Giant TicketRules:- All MTT's will be 9-handed, structure TBA, probably Turbo (4-5 min lvls) with a €1 Buy-in - Use the same alias in all tournaments (Mulitple aliasses will not be merged, only 1 prize per player) - Best 3 results count - Subs must whisper me their alias before! starting or they'll just be counted as plebs - Things might be added/change later. So keep an eye out on this thread! Feel free to suggest improvements etc. - In case of a Tie, the winner will be drawn on stream - If you sub during the day, only your results after the subscription will count towards the sub prizePoints:No matter the number of players taking part, these points will be available for all league tournaments.PositionPoints1402353304255206187168149121011111012913814715-20621-305 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaVitsche Posted January 25, 2018 Author Share Posted January 25, 2018 LEADPOSALIASTOTALHIGH1HIGH2HIGH3SUB1Illkickyou94404014 2Discord86403511X3Nielu25680403010X4Neumanriel7040255X5Leipa69351816X6Maestro19086635256X7trypek206535300 8HiDaVitsche6330258X9EatMoreNaga6230257X10bankomata6135188 11Petrica160202020 12wwaanneess5735166X13EL_HEFAZO56301610 14Psycho79554096 15-ihave6acc53251414 16SuperNoud50201614X17yarik_gr503596 18nurby84830126 19jerry94620206 20Oanaaaaaaaa454050 21Celph4425145 22Cheers_Mate_4225116X23reluni423066 241andy1404000X25Chameleon75404000 26DuckieLucky404000 27HOMOPETTERI3918129 28MijatS362565 29blom1006353500X30Ener292353500 31MEDICATED2353500 32DaWitcher342086 33DayMar3212119 34Enter_alias-311885 35Larexb1312560 36hahaha22303000 37lachkick12303000 38MrPenguins303000 39jyfmjuf291865 40BetteWachOut271665 41HAI_ROMANIA261466X42Krypton173261655X43Mirazas261655 440scar252050 45DaszZlocisza252500 46Bubbleboy241176 47MikeMersey241086X48fish_er231850 49ikmes231166 50Taut98231265 51geek666221066 524815162342211155X53dts5211065 54ItsMinePot21876 55pandoora384211065 56-Kirederf-202000 57ovromania202000 58PhussyBoi20965 59duckroy191450X60Goldenberry19865 61JuhaniKartio191450 62csipa181800 63dorikdor181800 64Hotzonicu18765X65LA_DISCORDA18765X66mctheBesT181800 67P5YCH3D3LIC5181800 68diet_worked17755X69nuaudi5171250 70predador1171160 71CwazyRabby161600 72E_MOE6716655 73ElyRud161060 74Kepcsi85161600 75OGLE-TR-122b16655 76ozsviii2161600 77PROSTO08161150 78willrockyou161150 79Goodmayer7151050 80Finger2141400 81DaLooser121200 82DonkCorle0ne121200 83mcvol1986121200 84ThouFallen121200 85losumbrelos121200 86FeelsBadMan11650X87MoneyForBeer11650X88Morly11650 89epiphany365111100 90DaVitsche10550X91devildom99910550 92jel_10550 93pianocat8810550 94ptrh101000 95Remk_9510550X96FleeYouPurdy101000 97hereisrivaldo9900X98Kevathallam9900 99kolo9900 100PeeKaaBoo9900 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaVitsche Posted January 25, 2018 Author Share Posted January 25, 2018 101Dorin6158800 102Verokarhu8800 103Ladnesor38800 104Maliblue7700 1055aR1uK4s6600 106Gezinustrimp6600 107KK_okgoodbye6600 108LadyLuck106600 109Mojsz6600 110pannncake6600 111Snoaw326600 112VictoriaJune6600 113wilson066600 114Blandevann5500 115Cezcarino5500 116cgc5500 117CUwhenUGT5500 118dedmaxor5500 119drareia5500 120ESZTER35500 121justluckbox5500 122maestro19O85500 123MrGoldspade5500 124Spurgu835500 125TUL5500 126VandenBluff5500 127VanTanngo5500 128Vendelbo165500 129YOGGIBOSS5500 130ZATTE_RITA5500 131puffpuffpas25500 132Aahrrgg5500 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4soul Posted January 26, 2018 Share Posted January 26, 2018 Nice, we wait for that!:inlove: Get rich or try bluffin'! Follow my sessions on TWITCH CHANELL and INSTAGRAM! Need results? My 1st places!My BLOGS: 1.From 0€ to decent! , 2.BONUS Challenge done! , 3.Crumbled the BONUS100€! and 4.From 4€ to 4.444€!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fornicator99 Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Good stuff! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wwaanneess Posted January 29, 2018 Share Posted January 29, 2018 Woop wooop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBandes Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Ok, Great, Fantastic. Well in time announced 😏, not like the last time when i missed the first 5 tourneys after a long night's sleep. Still made 3 final tables, i think it was, 4th, 5th, 6th, but bubbled any tickets :sad:.There was one thing which was coming up in me time and time again, which is that personally i don't like the structure.The tourney starts, we have about 100 big blinds, thats ok, 15 minute later i guess like 60, and so on. Still relatively enough to play well and wait for good hands, and not have to gamble. But at the bubble already things begin to start getting bingo. I know it's usually every bubble, but here i think it's a bit more extreme. Now if you noticed at the final tables average stack usually is about 8 big blinds. I might not be precise, but i think i am around about near the truth. We have about 80 players on average per tourney. We start with 3000 chips if i am right. Which means total chips is about 240k. 9 players => 26k average. And how much is the blind level at the final table, well i am not sure but would guess about 4k ? Thats not even 8 BB. I don't really have precise numbers, but i remember things were pretty bad. Mincash is about 3 Euros, and the Final Table Shootout Bingo Bonanza decides who gets €30(or ~€25 sometimes) and 9th place is usually around €5. So money is being bingoed away in my point of view. I was playing pretty well in the early phases many times, built up a stack, sometimes enough for a FT already, and then at the bubble i hated that my chips were almost worth like "now i have to jam all of it with A10o or KQo, but i don't really want to, but i have to, damn". And of course on a couple of occasions i busted because eventually lost flips with good decent hands, and all the great play until then was up in smoke.I wouldn't really mind if the structure was a little deeper, like we would start with 5000 chips or 6000 maybe. Or do something about the blind levels. It's no problem if i would have 3 tables open at the same time, or even 4. Don't mind to have to play more in that time. If we could have 30 minute longer tourneys, that would make it less bingo i am sure. This turbo-like structure seems to be the same as we have in all the freerolls here (Davitsche freeroll, Social Media freeroll and the rest) where we have on average 500 to 800 players (!) There is a lot of bingo too, but still on a Final table, like 10 times more chips to play with and blind levels maybe just a few levels higher. So yeah, all in all i am not sure this structure is the best for 80 players. Maybe we could have deeper stacks with faster blind levels, that would mean the tourney wouldnt last much longer, but average stack would be higher in blinds.But of course this is only my personal opinion, i am not an expert in these. Most people might be happy with bingoing anyway and they would say, "yeah but we have 10 tourneys, you will have enough time and hands to get lucky etc."Another idea which came into my mind is that when we are playing for the overall results and need one more good finishing, we could have the last 3, 2 or 1 tourney with rebuy option (?) Perhaps. Whatever. 10 tourneys should be enough. But like when you need one more good result and you get coolered out could still reenter once more. But the first one is the more important one. What's your thoughts on these ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekoneko Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 I for one like them the way they are. It's better for them to be fast.Any decision for changing them should be done in a poll, not on a single guy suggestion. As for reentry.. that usualy causes a lot of all in's at start from the people with more money, no ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBandes Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Ok, then let's make a poll! Here is my suggestion. We have the €1 buyin Singularity every day at 19:00CET which is also a 9-seat tournament. I think it has a better structure, although it's slower too. But we could make it faster by making the levels shorter. I calculated three modified versions. My guess is the tourneys will be over at least on level 32, probably quite a few levels earlier. But if we get to level 32, here are the time calculations:Singularity Default 12 x 6 = 72 20 x 4 = 80 152 minutes = 2.5 hoursA 12 x 4 = 48 20 x 3 = 60 108 minutes = 1.8 hoursB 12 x 3 = 36 20 x 3 = 60 96 minutes = 1.6 hoursC 12 x 3 = 36 20 x 2 = 40 76 minutes = 1.25 hoursVersion A would probably last a bit more than one and a half hours, so we would have 2 tourneys overlayed a bit longer than usual. Still probably end before the third tourney kicks in. Version B would last around one and a half hours. Version C would last about the same time as the ones we were playing.But we could have enough big blinds to play POST FLOP on final tables and not have to just SHOVE or FOLD.I think i am precise +/- 10 minutes. I am checking now the Singularity running which is slower than any of these, and the final table is starting about now after 85 minutes of playing. So it will probably last about two hours, which would be i guess too much for us with having 3 tourneys running at the same time.I am ok with B or C version too. Make it faster but with deeper stacks.Ironically i am not sure i would make better results with deeper stacks playing, but if i would reach final tables i am sure i would be less tilted with busting because i would not feel handcuffed like jamming pocket fours with 6 big blinds and have to pray to see if i win €15 more or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreedoM Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 @MrBandes I like the structure as it is, fast and furious. I plan on playing other games to and i'm sure other people will do the same. So by making the structure slow i for one will skip them unless i feel like playing 20 hrs of poker and 12-20 tabling. Witch i assure you anyone who doesn't grind poker will not want to do. And i don't understand why do we even have this conversation, the majority of people like the fast structure. I think it's rude that u even try to change them in the first place, the only guy that has a say in it is @DaVitsche. He created the league as a bonus for his stream. And you are missing the point of poker by just taking it to serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBandes Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 Update : I was wrong about length of the Singularity. Got fooled myself a bit cause i was looking at the wrong tournament(€2 Wormhole) when calculating.It's running 140 minutes now and still 20 players left.It looks like the levels are all 6 minutes on the Singularity and 4 minutes on the Wormhole. My mistake. But the blinds are all the same, just the level jumps take different times. So we could have 3 minute levels and bigger starting stack 4000 or 5000. That would do the damage 😀It would be really nice if we would have bigger average blinds on final table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBandes Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 @FreedoM wrote: @MrBandes I like the structure as it is, fast and furious. I plan on playing other games to and i'm sure other people will do the same. So by making the structure slow i for one will skip them unless i feel like playing 20 hrs of poker and 12-20 tabling. Witch i assure you anyone who doesn't grind poker will not want to do. And i don't understand why do we even have this conversation, the majority of people like the fast structure. I think it's rude that u even try to change them in the first place, the only guy that has a say in it is @DaVitsche. He created the league as a bonus for his stream. And you are missing the point of poker by just taking it to serious.I am saying we could make it even more fast with a little deeper stacks and overall it would last the same length, but it would be less bingo. Or we could have just flip tournaments 😏 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreedoM Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 @MrBandes Maybe your right and it could be better but i really think you should talk it with DaVitsche in private and if he agrees with you then make a new post and ask the people who play it what they think. I love your commitment but u must make it properly. Good night my friend. #TakeNRG #BlessRNG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaVitsche Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 I like the fact that it's a fair fight for everyone, so I'm going to go ahead and say "Nay" to the idea of making reentries.It was a lot of text to go trough and as a starter, let me point out that I am no expert in tournament structures.The idea is that I only have to play 2 tables max at any given time, so that I can maintain maximum focus on streaming to truly make this an interactive, community driven stream. So the structure now has definitaly proven it's worth. They last around 1h45-2h10, which allows me to focus on the final table of one of the tournaments (regardless of whether i'm on it), while playing the next tournament. I noticed some tournaments breaking the 2h mark last month, which already creates some practical issues. So I for sure don't want them to last much longer than now.Your suggestion for faster structure with deeper stacks seems weird, Isn't this even worse? Turbo Deepstacks are reg favourites, because recreational players don't even realize they're playing a turbo. You suggested longer levels at first, to then speed up. again, same issue I think.Just look at these tournaments as the perfect opportunity to play deepstacked in the early level, to then switch to training your push/fold strategy :D May I suggest the app FloatTheTurn which now also includes callingranges vs shoves (check my tweet). The irony of calling a push/fold app "Float The Turn" seems to escape everyone though.In short, this works, I have a lot of fun doing these streams, and the community's response is overwhelmingly positive, so I'm not planning to change the structure for this edition.After this edition, I'll follow up the data, start/stop times etc and I'll ask Leo, Dara, Lappin, Daiva & Ian's opinion on the matter. Maybe they have a good idea that is the perfect middle ground without making the tournaments longer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBandes Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 @DaVitsche wrote: I like the fact that it's a fair fight for everyone, so I'm going to go ahead and say "Nay" to the idea of making reentries.It was a lot of text to go trough and as a starter, let me point out that I am no expert in tournament structures.The idea is that I only have to play 2 tables max at any given time, so that I can maintain maximum focus on streaming to truly make this an interactive, community driven stream. So the structure now has definitaly proven it's worth. They last around 1h45-2h10, which allows me to focus on the final table of one of the tournaments (regardless of whether i'm on it), while playing the next tournament. I noticed some tournaments breaking the 2h mark last month, which already creates some practical issues. So I for sure don't want them to last much longer than now.Your suggestion for faster structure with deeper stacks seems weird, Isn't this even worse? Turbo Deepstacks are reg favourites, because recreational players don't even realize they're playing a turbo. You suggested longer levels at first, to then speed up. again, same issue I think.Just look at these tournaments as the perfect opportunity to play deepstacked in the early level, to then switch to training your push/fold strategy :D May I suggest the app FloatTheTurn which now also includes callingranges vs shoves (check my tweet). The irony of calling a push/fold app "Float The Turn" seems to escape everyone though.In short, this works, I have a lot of fun doing these streams, and the community's response is overwhelmingly positive, so I'm not planning to change the structure for this edition.After this edition, I'll follow up the data, start/stop times etc and I'll ask Leo, Dara, Lappin, Daiva & Ian's opinion on the matter. Maybe they have a good idea that is the perfect middle ground without making the tournaments longer.Fair fight for everyone ? Really ? Any way it's a fair fight for everyone, any rules apply to all.What i am saying is that you can be chipleader at a final table you lose two flips and you are out, while you win two flips as short stack suddenly you are the chipleader.And there is no room for playing. You can't wait orbits for hands, it's ridiculous. The luckiest players at the final tables will win the most money. Ok, we will have 10 opportunities to flip lucky.I took the time and shared my thoughts. Fine, just leave it as it is. I will take a look at my shove charts and tilt everyone else. I am gonna be playing my "Jack Three suited Jam" game. I realised already in the past it takes no sense to play sanely when the bingo players win the most. It will be +EV to gamble and shove half crap hands. Queen Eight suited, i call a jam, hit a straight or a flush, two pair fine. Great Poker!Don't know why it's worse to have faster levels with deeper stacks. It's probably just different. I was just thinking it would be better perhaps because of the more blinds.Will take a look at the app, i had it once installed already in the past but did not find it useful. I mostly know anyway what to shove, that just won't guarantee anything, because flips are flips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caladrias Posted January 30, 2018 Share Posted January 30, 2018 @MrBandes, increasing stack sizes and making the levels shorter, would only make the 'problem' bigger. If anything, the stack sizes should be decreased (say starting stacks of 50BB) and the levels should be longer. This would result in a smoother tournament regarding average stacks. I.e. result in less 'bingo' at the final table. But I don't see the problem. What you call 'bingo', is just what naturally happens in a turbo/hyperturbo. And it is something you can train yourself for, by studying push/fold ranges as Davitsche mentioned in the post above. Which will make you a lot of money in the long run, in any turbo MTT/SNG you'll ever play. There's a lot more to this than just shoving and hoping for the best. You mentioned that the freerolls have the same structure, but end up with deeper stacked FTs. It's a good point to make, but you should also understand why this happens. In freerolls, a lot of people don't care at all about the tournament, and constantly go all in in all sorts of spots. This results in a lot of bustouts throughout the whole tournament, which results in a bigger average stack throughout the whole tournament. In Davitsches tournaments however, people play less recklessly to start with. Moreover, there are 2 bubbles: a points bubble and a money bubble. As you know, bubbles slow down the action a lot. And after these bubbles, people still play slower because they want to ladder in both the points and the money. As a result, people play way tighter than they actually should, fewer people bust and there you have it: very small stacks at the final table. I like the tournaments a lot as they are too. It is indeed mainly push/folding at the end, and you'll need to get lucky a few times. But that's just how it goes in turbos. And even more in a turbo with two bubbles. And that's great for recreational players. With a slower structure, they would have even smaller chances to win anything in these leagues compared to the regs. And after all I think Davitsche mainly wants these MTTs to be a lot of fun for the recreational players on the site, instead of creating a ticket hunt for regulars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaVitsche Posted January 30, 2018 Author Share Posted January 30, 2018 @Caladrias wrote: And after all I think Davitsche mainly wants these MTTs to be a lot of fun for the recreational players on the site, instead of creating a ticket hunt for regulars. This couldn't be more right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SCOBY Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 I play with the SCOBY alias. I criticize what I don't like"!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neumanriel Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Hello. Where can I write my alias? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreedoM Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 @SCOBY@NeumanrielYou don't need to put your alias here. Just whisper your alias to DaVitsche on Twitch before you play the league if you are a subscriber to his channel if your not a sub you don't need to whisper him your alias just play with the same alias in all the MTTs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neumanriel Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Yes. I am subscriber. Just write my alias in chat before tournaments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FreedoM Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 @Neumanriel No, you whisper it to him. If you click his name in chat will see the whisper button. 😉 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neumanriel Posted February 1, 2018 Share Posted February 1, 2018 Got it. Thank you freedom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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