Loyalty Point Race - equality?

[GotKot99]

Hello,

“…points are earned for each 1c of rake you pay.”

Sorry if this has been discussed elsewhere. Also, I don’t want to sound a whining customer, but isn’t this very unequal race?

For example, if someone is playing with a smaller budget (let’s say 10 - 100€ per month) and the other plays with a larger budget (let’s say 1000 - 10000€ per month), it is almost certain that the one playing with the larger budget will win (of course fairing well and winning counts too) but still. Or am I missing something here?

It is very nice for UB to have these all kinds of races/challenges/promos etc. I accept them gladly! I guess, I was just wondering is this “inequality” something that is in-built into the Loyalty Point Race. If it is, then it is, and that’s that. (Races hardly ever are equal anyway, whatever the context.) And, of course, nobody forces one to compete…
 

Thanks!

[Stubbe-Unibet]

I think this is equality, not inequality. Giving smaller stake players more point per cent raked, that'd be unfair in my book. Everyone is treated the same, according to rake paid.

But yes, it does require lower stakes players to put in a lot more volume; play more hands. The promotion is mostly meant for higher stakes, but high-volume players at low stakes can also get rewards from the leaderboard, due to the relatively high number of players paid on the leaderboard. 

[GR1ZZL3R]

    To be fair I don't know why it's called a loyalty race, the UUUGHH, Unibet Unfair Ugly Great Horror Handicap would be nearer the mark. It has nothing to do with loyalty, the size of your bank roll is far more appropriate. 

   I know there are many great promos on UB but this is not one of them, unless you are a big bank rolled grinder. Some of the casino "races" are similar, the more money you have and the more money you spend the more money you will "win." I get that all casinos are looking after their higher stakes clients but I'm just wondering how these sorts of promos align with the responsible gambling ethos. On the one hand you have take a break or self exclude facilities, help lines for those with problems, warnings not to gamble with money you can't afford, but then there's the "Spend as much as you can or more, otherwise you've no chance of getting anything back" type promos. It's a weird world. 😱

 

[FreedoM]

Everyone who thinks that they need to take part into this promo, or any promo for that matter, and goes out of their way to do so, has a gambling problem.🤔

 

[Stubbe-Unibet]

44 minutes ago, GR1ZZL3R said:

   I know there are many great promos on UB but this is not one of them, unless you are a big bank rolled grinder. Some of the casino "races" are similar, the more money you have and the more money you spend the more money you will "win." I get that all casinos are looking after their higher stakes clients but I'm just wondering how these sorts of promos align with the responsible gambling ethos. On the one hand you have take a break or self exclude facilities, help lines for those with problems, warnings not to gamble with money you can't afford, but then there's the "Spend as much as you can or more, otherwise you've no chance of getting anything back" type promos. It's a weird world. 😱

 

I expected more from you 🙂  Rake is completely independent of loss and the ones getting the most value from this promotion will generally be winning players

45 minutes ago, GR1ZZL3R said:

    To be fair I don't know why it's called a loyalty race, the UUUGHH, Unibet Unfair Ugly Great Horror Handicap would be nearer the mark. It has nothing to do with loyalty, the size of your bank roll is far more appropriate. 

It's quite simple. It's a loyalty system. The points were called loyalty points, because they were linked to the loyalty system (now called XP and most places the promo is now simply called points race). The race is based on loyalty points, hence it was named loyalty points race.

---

I am not even sure what we're discussing here. Are you guys trying to say we should pay the same rewards to players, regardless of stakes/rake. If so, I'll come back for some advise, if I want the site to shut down due to dwindling traffic 😉😅

NB I'm not going to go off-topic and discuss promotions on other products 🙂 

[GR1ZZL3R]

1 hour ago, FreedoM said:

Everyone who thinks that they need to take part into this promo, or any promo for that matter, and goes out of their way to do so, has a gambling problem.🤔

 

I'm glad you added the rider. The current flip promo is fine for me as I'm playing cash anyway and the flops mount up as part of my "normal" play.

50 minutes ago, Stubbe-Unibet said:

I expected more from you 🙂  Rake is completely independent of loss and the ones getting the most value from this promotion will generally be winning players

50 minutes ago, Stubbe-Unibet said:

I am not even sure what we're discussing here. Are you guys trying to say we should pay the same rewards to players, regardless of stakes/rake. If so, I'll come back for some advise, if I want the site to shut down due to dwindling traffic 😉😅

I can't see anywhere where I mentioned rake or wether winning or losing players benefit or not, a player's bankroll at the start of a promo is not necessarily dependant on wether they are a winner or loser.  I can see that some promos are designed to encourage players to play more or new players to sign up, and obviously any casino or gambling business depends on both those factors to some extent, but I'm trying to point out the differences in promoting responsible gambling and promoting more gambling. Surely leaderboards encourage more, the temptation for some must be to carry on just that bit longer or buy in just one more time. I've never been a fan of those, but to be honest the King of Flips made me play that bit more yesterday, but that is with a definite defined finishing line that can be considered in advance, leaderboards can't. I can win the same number of tickets playing micro stakes as a high roller, same rewards really, even knowing that my odds against winning the ultimate prize will be much higher as I'm starting flipping from a much lower level, but that's much more acceptable than competing with a €100 br against a €10,000 br. It's only my preferences.

Just on side note you'll probably  have to shut down the poker site in a few years anyway. 😬

Edited August 30, 2022 by GR1ZZL3R

[Stubbe-Unibet]

10 minutes ago, GR1ZZL3R said:

I'm glad you added the rider. The current flip promo is fine for me as I'm playing cash anyway and the flops mount up as part of my "normal" play.

I can't see anywhere where I mentioned rake or wether winning or losing players benefit or not, a player's bankroll at the start of a promo is not necessarily dependant on wether they are a winner or loser.  I can see that some promos are designed to encourage players to play more or new players to sign up, and obviously any casino or gambling business depends on both those factors to some extent, but I'm trying to point out the differences in promoting responsible gambling and promoting more gambling. Surely leaderboards encourage more, the temptation for some must be to carry on just that bit longer or buy in just one more time. I've never been a fan of those, but to be honest the King of Flips made me play that bit more yesterday, but that is with a definite defined finishing line that can be considered in advance, leaderboards can't. I can win the same number of tickets playing micro stakes as a high roller, same rewards really, even knowing that my odds against winning the ultimate prize will be much higher as I'm starting flipping from a much lower level, but that's much more acceptable than competing with a €100 br against a €10,000 br. It's only my preferences.

Just on side note you'll probably  have to shut down the poker site in a few years anyway. 😬

The poker product is currently doing better than it ever has at this time of the year, despite closing markets that accounted for xx% of the total rake. So don't worry, no risk of the product shutting down 😉 

It's just weird to highlight a poker grinder promo as a real RG issue - RG is a serious topic. Big losers don't really chase these leaderboards and the prize payouts are going to decent players. Are some of the players playing more because of the leaderboard? Yes, of course, but good luck trying to turn that into an RG issue, when it generally means a better bottom-line result for the guys on the leaderboard. Why do you think the promo format works again and again? It's because the players benefit from the higher rakeback. You're really just giving the good players way too little credit here, and it sounds like you'd also want to remove progressive RB systems and replace them with a flat 15-20%. It's possible to make a living, playing poker on our site; you can't just disregard the skill aspect completely.

[FreedoM]

I think Unibet does a great job with the Promos, there is something for every Bankroll size and the traffic it's been on the Up (at least at the NLHE Cash Games) taking into consideration it's the summer season. 👍

[GR1ZZL3R]

   To be fair i don't think I'm explaining myself clearly enough. The main point that I'm trying to make is that certain types of promotion will lead to some players playing more or longer or bigger stakes than they should, although this may not apply to poker as much as other pure gambling pursuits. As you don't wish to comment on other products I'll accept your arguments as stated, after all if I don't want to participate I have the choice not to. A couple of years ago we were invited to ask some questions of different heads of departments, Casino, Security etc but then covid struck and the chance never materialised, maybe that would have been a chance to discuss certain types of promos. 

1 hour ago, Stubbe-Unibet said:

So don't worry, no risk of the product shutting down 😉 

I'm not so sure as you but that's a whole new topic. 😬

[GR1ZZL3R]

1 hour ago, FreedoM said:

I think Unibet does a great job with the Promos, there is something for every Bankroll size and the traffic it's been on the Up (at least at the NLHE Cash Games) taking into consideration it's the summer season. 👍

I agree, just that some promos aren't as good as others. 

[Stubbe-Unibet]

1 hour ago, GR1ZZL3R said:

   To be fair i don't think I'm explaining myself clearly enough. The main point that I'm trying to make is that certain types of promotion will lead to some players playing more or longer or bigger stakes than they should, although this may not apply to poker as much as other pure gambling pursuits. As you don't wish to comment on other products I'll accept your arguments as stated, after all if I don't want to participate I have the choice not to. A couple of years ago we were invited to ask some questions of different heads of departments, Casino, Security etc but then covid struck and the chance never materialised, maybe that would have been a chance to discuss certain types of promos. 

I'm not so sure as you but that's a whole new topic. 😬

That's fair. I don't disagree with that "main point" at all - some promotions can lead to unwanted behavior. I just think the promo this thread is about isn't a good example of such - even if it might be a good example of a promo you dislike 😉 I actually think it's one of the worst examples of a problematic promo. Because, again, players playing more does not automatically equal any sort of RG complication/issue. It's a good metric to include, but on its own it really doesn't say much 

[GotKot99]

Thank you very much @Stubbe-Unibet, @GR1ZZL3R, @FreedoM for your thoughts concerning this. I think you all make valid points. I probably have some thoughts of my own too, but am too tired to write them (at least for) now.
 

However, I could say that it seems to me virtually impossible to win anything from these when looking at the leaderboard scores when playing with a small budget. But to be fair, there are also generous freerolls, micro stake competitions, and (community) promos etc. that are accessible and offer good opportunities to win for players with smaller budgets. So thanks UB!

Perhaps my main motivation for starting the topic was to generate discussion, which it has 🙂