Omaha RNG

[YugoBoss]

Keeping cool day after day after day... Until now, which made me make this post... Omaha cash game.................. We all know very well that  the set ups are at way higher level than in TH but... after a month of playing as well as actively observing what is happening at the table (when I am not in the hand)... RNG is not R at all... the pattern of bringing down the cards on T & R in order to clash the stacks is so obvious... not good... not at all

[YugoBoss]

3 minutes ago, YugoBoss said:

Keeping cool day after day after day... Until now, which made me make this post... Omaha cash game.................. We all know very well that  the set ups are at way higher level than in TH but... after a month of playing as well as actively observing what is happening at the table (when I am not in the hand)... RNG is not R at all... the pattern of bringing down the cards on T & R in order to clash the stacks is so obvious... not good... not at all

and for the sake of giving one example (which is happening constantly, every big hand), here is the most recent hand of mine...

 

[Andy-Relax]

You're not 100% on the turn so this was your 1 in 10 I'm afraid.

[Livertool]

2 hours ago, YugoBoss said:

and for the sake of giving one example (which is happening constantly, every big hand), here is the most recent hand of mine...

 

Without knowing actions, if hole cards were reversed, would you have folded and at what point?

Bad beat but crap happens.

[YugoBoss]

53 minutes ago, Livertool said:

Without knowing actions, if hole cards were reversed, would you have folded and at what point?

Bad beat but crap happens.

I was not talking about skill, strategy, equity, actions... here is the RNG topic, nothing else. Otherwise you would know actions if I was breaking down the hand to point out whatever... too many runouts like this, in 95% of hands or more that I witnessed

[YugoBoss]

3 hours ago, Andy-Unibet said:

You're not 100% on the turn so this was your 1 in 10 I'm afraid.

Thanks for the equity explanation, I now that very well. I was pointing out RNG and runout of cards

[Andy-Relax]

What are you pointing out though? That something that is supposed to happen 1/10 times actually happened? How does that prove there is an issue with the RNG?

[EatMoreNaga]

6 hours ago, YugoBoss said:

and for the sake of giving one example (which is happening constantly, every big hand), here is the most recent hand of mine...

 

When you are in a big hand going to the turn, it means your opponent had multiple draws on the flop. What percent of turn card will hit your opponents hand? Also, at PLO10 player have somewhat loose requirements for going all in.

Basically, you're complaining that everytime you get to play a big pot your opponent also has a better than average hand.

[Pickleman]

A whole month, huh? Cor! That's a lot of hands, right? I mean . . . could be as many as 100k hands if you were playing A LOT.

So I tell you what. Go to this website:

https://www.primedope.com/poker-variance-calculator/

And put in 100k in the no. of hands to simulate box, then pick any win rate you like and look at the graphs. 

Just to be clear - that simulation: that really is random. I mean there'd be literally no point in setting up a simulator like that unless it was genuinely simulating an RNG. So there's no politicis or commerce or big naughty company trying to pretend it's random when it isn't - paying an independent RNG-checking organisation to accredit its RNG as random when it isn't . . . blah blah blah.

Look at those graphs: all the different outcomes there can be for a money-making player over that month. It's crazy. And that, my friend, is what randomness really looks like. Way, way beyond anything we can fathom with the everyday understanding equipment that is our minds. 

[YugoBoss]

12 hours ago, Andy-Unibet said:

What are you pointing out though? That something that is supposed to happen 1/10 times actually happened? How does that prove there is an issue with the RNG?

As I wrote, I am pointing out that "R" doesn't seem random to me at all. That is my impression, if I am allowed to express it here? Am not proving or disproving anything... Or saying that I am right and you are wrong, or opposite... However, would leave it at this point, as I got the feeling that it is not "popular" to write anything in here that is not in Unibet's favor. And I don't want you guys to hate me 😄 Have a good one Andy

[YugoBoss]

10 hours ago, EatMoreNaga said:

When you are in a big hand going to the turn, it means your opponent had multiple draws on the flop. What percent of turn card will hit your opponents hand? Also, at PLO10 player have somewhat loose requirements for going all in.

Basically, you're complaining that everytime you get to play a big pot your opponent also has a better than average hand.

First of all, I will use this chance to express that I am admired with your style of play, as I have remembered you from the tables 😉  Keep it like that!

You've been holding up good at the beginning... Then, you missed it completely in the last paragraph my friend.. You should definitely eat more of whatever you eat 😉 but hey, it was entertaining comment for me too, therefore you get a like on it! Have a nice day bro! 🙂  

[YugoBoss]

5 hours ago, Pickleman said:

A whole month, huh? Cor! That's a lot of hands, right? I mean . . . could be as many as 100k hands if you were playing A LOT.

So I tell you what. Go to this website:

https://www.primedope.com/poker-variance-calculator/

And put in 100k in the no. of hands to simulate box, then pick any win rate you like and look at the graphs. 

Just to be clear - that simulation: that really is random. I mean there'd be literally no point in setting up a simulator like that unless it was genuinely simulating an RNG. So there's no politicis or commerce or big naughty company trying to pretend it's random when it isn't - paying an independent RNG-checking organisation to accredit its RNG as random when it isn't . . . blah blah blah.

Look at those graphs: all the different outcomes there can be for a money-making player over that month. It's crazy. And that, my friend, is what randomness really looks like. Way, way beyond anything we can fathom with the everyday understanding equipment that is our minds. 

Hey Pickleman! 

Thanks a lot for your detailed reply, it is really good! Appreciated! I will go through that calculator today.

Have a nice day! 🙂 

[YugoBoss]

12 hours ago, Andy-Unibet said:

What are you pointing out though? That something that is supposed to happen 1/10 times actually happened? How does that prove there is an issue with the RNG?

As I said, that R doesn't seem random to me. That is my impression, after some good amount of hands, if, by the way, I am allowed to express it here?... as I am getting that feeling that it is not desirable to post anything here that it is not in Unibet's favor... and I don't want that you guys hate me here 😄 If I tell you that 1/10 happens 9/10 you will tell me that I am running extremely bad, right? Anyway, am not saying I am right, you are wrong or the other way around. Maybe I should stick to MTT's and eventually NL.. as it is waay less stresful and I don't get suspicious at all... It would be even better if I suck at Omaha 😄 

Have a nice day Andy! 

[Andy-Relax]

The good thing about things like this is that your and my opinions don't matter because we have independent 3rd parties that test the RNG to ensure it is completely random and they do that regularly. There have been nearly 1.6 billion hands run through the RNG so I can't see how you're going to have a big enough sample to disprove the findings of the numerous regulators that have given either Kindred or Relax a licence and independently tested the RNG to ensure it's fair. 

You're perfectly entitled to provide constructive criticism about the product, we'd encourage it, but complaining the RNG is rigged against you is pointless. If would be infinitely more work trying to ensure certain players were winning and certain players were not and when the rake comes to us either way, why would we bother? 

PLO is swingy enough, we don't need to add to it by fixing the deck 🙂

[Estzen]

I know. Andy ! Why is YugoBoss hand rigged? And unibet safe and tested RNG. 

Its because when Yugo, enters into Unibet, the RNG has a special condition, that specially takes bad hands and gives them those. 

I guess now I know why Im so much up, its because Unibet must have a special chip that gives me better outcomes 😂!

[Pickleman]

56 minutes ago, Estzen said:

I know. Andy ! Why is YugoBoss hand rigged? And unibet safe and tested RNG. 

Its because when Yugo, enters into Unibet, the RNG has a special condition, that specially takes bad hands and gives them those. 

I guess now I know why Im so much up, its because Unibet must have a special chip that gives me better outcomes 😂!

I'm afraid the PokerIsRigged community worked out a counter to that one years ago. It's not that poker is rigged *against them*, that would be preposterous (although, interestingly, that's what they would claim until someone pointed out to them how preposterous that was), it's that poker is rigged to generate more action flops, turns, rivers, setups, whatever - regardless of who's playing.

The counter to that argument is, of course, why would sites bother: isn't poker action enough without investing all that extra time and money and risking being caught and losing your slice of the pie?

I guess people may think that about Omaha because the turns and rivers shift equity so much in comparison with Hold Em, and people aren't necessarily used to it. I mean, listen to this guy moaning about having his set of aces cracked:

 

[YugoBoss]

10 hours ago, Andy-Unibet said:

The good thing about things like this is that your and my opinions don't matter because we have independent 3rd parties that test the RNG to ensure it is completely random and they do that regularly. There have been nearly 1.6 billion hands run through the RNG so I can't see how you're going to have a big enough sample to disprove the findings of the numerous regulators that have given either Kindred or Relax a licence and independently tested the RNG to ensure it's fair. 

You're perfectly entitled to provide constructive criticism about the product, we'd encourage it, but complaining the RNG is rigged against you is pointless. If would be infinitely more work trying to ensure certain players were winning and certain players were not and when the rake comes to us either way, why would we bother? 

PLO is swingy enough, we don't need to add to it by fixing the deck 🙂

I never said nor used word rigged, especially not pointed it is rigged against me.. I mean come on... You should know better than just labeling me here as someone who is complaining that the whole world is against me (in a quite sarcastic way). That is not the case at all, as initially I mentioned the hands that I observed as well, not only the ones I played... Should check the Pickleman's replies that are way more adequate, to the topic & constructive. 

Should stop here as it definitely leads to nowhere...

Hope you had a good day! 

 

 

[YugoBoss]

7 hours ago, Estzen said:

I know. Andy ! Why is YugoBoss hand rigged? And unibet safe and tested RNG. 

Its because when Yugo, enters into Unibet, the RNG has a special condition, that specially takes bad hands and gives them those. 

I guess now I know why Im so much up, its because Unibet must have a special chip that gives me better outcomes 😂!

You are so right and funny on the top of it! Clap clap clap. That was exactly my point!

Me : Log in

Software : Here comes YugoBoss, let's deal him some sick set ups...

 

[Pickleman]

so here's a good one for you @YugoBoss:

Without looking it up on ProPokerTools or such like, just the first figure that comes into your head, what's my opponent's equity on this flop?

What do you think 10%? 15%?

[YugoBoss]

1 hour ago, Pickleman said:

so here's a good one for you @YugoBoss:

Without looking it up on ProPokerTools or such like, just the first figure that comes into your head, what's my opponent's equity on this flop?

What do you think 10%? 15%?

What is your point? I know his equity here... 

[Pickleman]

4 hours ago, YugoBoss said:

What is your point? I know his equity here... 

my point was in Omaha the equities are often closer than you think they might be. Hence the illusion of turns and rivers being manipulated somehow 

[Pickleman]

Just now, Pickleman said:

my point was in Omaha the equities are often closer than you think they might be. Hence the illusion of turns and rivers being manipulated somehow 

Not you personally…. Everyone 

[Rushbie]

6 hours ago, YugoBoss said:

What is your point? I know his equity here... 

Some people are just keen to believe they can control happenings that can not be controlled. Like maths.
Lack of understanding here is quite a perfect example. 
It's a hard thing for the teenage ego to let go, that it can't do shit about world around .
RNG, the endboss of all 😎

Edited December 4, 2021 by Rushbie

[Estzen]

In psychology theres a term called "lack of insight". Its when we or someone has not grasped how something actually works. Its also big part often in Dunning-Krugger effect where someone who has a bit knowledge has an unrealistic understanding of the field how complex matters really work. Or a diffrent example is empathy, where for example someone with an Anti-social Personality Disorder(basically psychopathy tho their not same terms entirely since psychopathy is a coined construct and is not in DSM, while ASD is the actual diagnosis) - A psychopath also has a lot of lack of insight on feelings for them, they seem just a weak extra stuff that other people have. 

Or a narcissist who overestimates his ability to succed - its also often part of a clear lack of insight with not understanding how stuff works and how real world operates. 

Economics is maybe even a better example where lack of insight can be even a bigger thing at - because you have a lot of general knowledge that isnt so complex and is often easy to understand - but then when you go take an economics class at Universtity, you'll find out that you have no clue whats going on. 

And poker has the exact same quality, in the sense of rules - its a simple game which can be learned in minutes. But the technicalities can run so so over your head, that the game how a better player looks at - is entirely diffrent. And thats why bad players keep losing because they feel and think - that they still can win. 

In part people dont really understand varience also. They have no understandings of actual statistics and simulations, even tho they know by words what they are. 

I ll end this same topic with a bit nuanced example of chess, where the diffrence of insight is a clear advantage: ability of understanding and seeing how things work - I hope it helps also in a topical sense. 

 

Edited December 5, 2021 by Estzen