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Unibet changing terms unilaterally - anyone else a victim?


incognito123
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I made a bet in the 2020 US Presidential elections and my slip had the following terms (in finnish):

"Winner decided by who reaches the required number of Electoral Votes on Election Day" (see below)

unibet.png.4d5b209e07661d425d25e7aa1a769ad0.png

Since it's clear to everyone now that nobody won on election day, one assumes the bet is a push. So imagine my surprise when Unibet judges the bet as lost.

I try to find out why on earth and I get a reply that the terms of my bet have changed and are now as follows:

"Winner decided by who reaches the required number of Electoral Votes on Election Day. If there is no clear winner on election day the offer will be settled as soon as a candidate is projected to win beyond reasonable doubt"

 

I tried contacting Unibet about this, but email support wont answer, chat support just repeats the new terms and says "we're sorry you're frustrated" and forum staff just clean these messages from the forum and give me the runaround using private messages (I can post screenshots to illustrate this if challenged).

Is anyone else experiencing a similar issue? I am going to make a complaint to the authorities about this, but if there's more victims out there, i'd like to know before I submit my complaint. Maybe multiple people complaining about the same thing at the same time has a better effect than just little old me doing it.

 

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@Livertool wrote:

You can entertain yourself and also find answers to your question in this thread

https://www.unibetcommunity.com/t5/Off-topic/US-election-thread/td-p/361878 


I've actually posted to that thread, that's when my +4month runaround with the Forum staff started. They took me aside, agreed with my point and then nothing happened except promises to get this sorted "Tomorrow" or "next week".

I would've understood it if it was just one promised deadline that was missed, but it was several, with nothing to show for it again.

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@incognito123, what exactly do you interpret "reach" to mean in this context? Are you claiming you thought 100% of the votes - or enough votes for outcome to be decided 100.0% - had to be counted on election day? Obviously not; never happened and never will (unless the process and law changes). Seems like you're trying to find a bad excuse to recover the loses.

 

An argument can be made that Biden did reach the required number of votes on election day, as he won the election and all votes were cast on or before election day. Furthermore, the general T&C apply in this case, and it's all been settled according to the terms you've accepted, regardless of how you choose to interpret the text:

2) Unless otherwise specified below or in conjunction with the bet offer, all bets which fall under this section are valid until a result is officially declared regardless of any delays in the announcement, extra voting rounds, etc. which would be needed for the outcome to be announced.

 

I agree it could be more clear - which is also why it was later clarified/elaborated - but I'm afraid you simply put don't have a case.

 

Above is my own personal take on it, but the T&C can't really be bend in such a way that they favor you in this context.

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@Stubbe-Unibet wrote:

@incognito123, what exactly do you interpret "reach" to mean in this context? Are you claiming you thought 100% of the votes - or enough votes for outcome to be decided 100.0% - had to be counted on election day? Obviously not; never happened and never will (unless the process and law changes). Seems like you're trying to find a bad excuse to recover the loses.

 

An argument can be made that Biden did reach the required number of votes on election day, as he won the election and all votes were cast on or before election day. Furthermore, the general T&C apply in this case, and it's all been settled according to the terms you've accepted, regardless of how you choose to interpret the text:

2) Unless otherwise specified below or in conjunction with the bet offer, all bets which fall under this section are valid until a result is officially declared regardless of any delays in the announcement, extra voting rounds, etc. which would be needed for the outcome to be announced.

 

I agree it could be more clear - which is also why it was later clarified/elaborated - but I'm afraid you simply put don't have a case.

 

Above is my own personal take on it, but the T&C can't really be bend in such a way that they favor you in this context.


 

Hi,

 

first of all, you and recorpH were agreeing with me earlier: https://www.unibetcommunity.com/t5/Off-topic/US-election-thread/m-p/362161#M15425

What changed?

 

Even later, when discussing this issue in PMs, reCorpH seems this like I do.. what changed?

 

Secondly, the terms CLEARLY state that the person who gets (not reaches, sorry if I used that word in the translation) more ELECTORAL VOTES (which is not votes, but won states).I made the bet in the belief that if Trump would win, he would win by securing the states on election day, but if Biden was to win, he would secure the electoral votes later after lengthy legal battles.

 

As you say, Unibet also understood that this is a fair interpretation of the terms of the bet as they changed them later to include the " If there is no clear winner on election day the offer will be settled as soon as a candidate is projected to win beyond reasonable doubt" part was added to most people's bets, but not mine. Funny how a phrase that is integral to how Unibet decided the bet is not visible anywhere on my betting slip.

 

Yes, it may seem like a stupid loophole in the bet terms, but you're the one who put it there.. why would I not bet even at the lower odds that Unibet offers me when I have a chance of push as well as a win. If I had known you would not respect the terms of the bets you make, I would have gone to any of the bookers that offered better odds (most of them did).

 

Also, you are actually the first person in the last 4 months to even try to offer a decent counterargument, thanks for that. So far it's been nothing but a runaround.

 

If this is your final word on the matter, can I now say I've gone through the complaints process at Unibet? I've emailed, used chat and the forums and it seems I'm getting nowhere and my only way forward is a complaint. But one of the first things they ask is if I've completed the complaints process for the bookie.

 

 

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Damn this thing for not allowing edits to posts..

 

Anyway, the slip (in Finnish) states that you have to reach the required number of electoral votes.. which are not votes given by people, but electoral seats handed out to the winner or each state.. hence there's no need to count 100% of the votes to determine the winner of an election, you can determine it well beforehand as has happened in the past as well. But this time it didn't happen.. states never finished count as votes were coming into battleground states well after election.

 

I believe we agree on the same interpretation of the terms.. I just believe you're saying:

"You should've known better, even if it doesn't say so on the slip"

 

And I'm saying that someone made a mistake making the terms a little loose and now you're trying to cover for that mistake by blaming the customers.

 

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2) Unless otherwise specified below or in conjunction with the bet offer, all bets which fall under this section are valid until a result is officially declared regardless of any delays in the announcement, extra voting rounds, etc. which would be needed for the outcome to be announced.

^^ In my opinion, I have a bet offer which specifically mentions the timeline of "ELECTION DAY". There's no delay in announcement as the election never reached a point where an announcement on winner could be made on ELECTION DAY. 

 

I understand Unibet will interpret things their own way.. but saying I'm just trying to recover a bad bet when it's clear I could not win it anymore is reading malice into my actions that isn't there. If you examine your records, I contacted Unibet right after the election about the push, even when it was still looking strong for Trump as I believed the bet was void. Therefore I feel I have acted in good faith and consistent with the terms agreed in the original offer instead of trying to maximize my own profit at any cost as is hinted by your reply.

 

Because we both have a different opinion on this, I would like to take this to a 3rd party, so please let me know if there's some further Unibet complaint process I need to complete.

 

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@Stubbe-Unibet @ReCorpH Is this the final word now from Unibet?

 

And why do you never finish a conversation.. you throw a message out there and then nothing. I can understand you disagreeing with me (though you earlier agreed, which is weird, but not so weird when you figure that you must say what Unibet tells you to).

 

But what is the point of you saying you agree, and promising to help and then doing nothing? I was promised that if the issue is not resolved to my satisfaction, I'll be atleast helped in making a complaint to a 3rd party. But all I've received is a runaround and not a single piece of advice on how to proceed, even when I directly ask for advice, like this: Have I now completed the Unibet complaints process or is there still something I need to do before I can proceed to a 3rd party and say "I have completed the complaints process"..

 

Unibet has so far:

-Changed the terms of the bet unilaterally and retroactively

-In chat and email have refused to properly consider my complaint

-Told me they agree with me (unofficially), but officially tell me that I'm wrong

-Promised help with sorting this out, but have done nothing.

 

Whether I'm right or wrong on this issue, how do you think you've done in customer service?

 

Is Unibet just a ❤️♥️❤️ company in the guise of a real one? I don't mean this in a trolly way.. but with this level of isolating yourselves from feedback, how do you differ from scammers?

 

 

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I haven't replied as I don't really have much to add. I can only refer to my previous post, as that still applies after your responses. Just for the record I never agreed with you. There's a difference between agreeing to escalate something and agreeing with your reasoning - I'm always happy to question things internally, but I have to stress I have absolutely nothing to do with the decision in this case, and all I'm writing here is my personal interpretation of things (I work with poker product and not sports).

That the T&C were clarified later on, so the part from the general terms and conditions was also covered in the bet description, that's not an argument for your bet being a push/getting voided, as I see it. The general terms and conditions around bets on politics are quite clear on the matter, especially the part I previously quoted. I hear what you're saying, in terms of your interpretation of the timeline being specified, but to me that seems a little far-fetched.

 

After your explanation, I'd say you have less of a case, and your argument with "get" rather than "receive" as well as putting emphasis on electoral votes (which are never cast on election day but a long time after) doesn't really make sense to me. The media can call a winner on election day, but that doesn't mean the candidate "get" the votes, unless you interpret it as votes being cast on or before the day, but in that case the bet is lost as well.

 

In terms of the complaints process, I believe you can send in an "official" written complaint to customer support, if you haven't already. If that's done without reaching a satisfactory conclusion, next step would be to take it to a 3rd party, which depends on the license you're playing under (Malta in your case).

 

I believe customer support have been fairly swift in replying to you, but I do apologize for things not being better handled on here - saying this without having access to the support system nor knowing about your communication with recorph.

I definitely don't think we're isolating ourselves from feedback, and this site is a good example. We're more transparent than every single competitor, proven by the fact that you can find this thread on Google :)

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@Stubbe-Unibet wrote:

IAfter your explanation, I'd say you have less of a case, and your argument with "get" rather than "receive" as well as putting emphasis on electoral votes *1 (which are never cast on election day but a long time after) doesn't really make sense to me. The media can call a winner on election day, but that doesn't mean the candidate "get" the votes, unless you interpret it as votes being cast on or before the day, but in that case the bet is lost as well.

 

In terms of the complaints process, I believe you can send in an "official" written complaint to customer support, if you haven't already.*2 If that's done without reaching a satisfactory conclusion, next step would be to take it to a 3rd party, which depends on the license you're playing under (Malta in your case).

 

 

quick replies:

 

*1: I never emphasized anything, I merely translated to english what your betting slip said as the terms and clarified what I think they can mean. If they don't make sense, who is at fault? I mean I could not go and edit the terms if I wanted to.. but Unibet clearly could, retroactively.

My whole point/emphasis/claim is that unibet made terms that were stupid for Unibet and ended up changing the terms retroactively. IMO that's why there's two versions of the betting slip going around:

a. "Winner decided by who reaches the required number of Electoral Votes on Election day. "

b. "Winner decided by who reaches the required number of Electoral Votes on Election day. If there is no clear winner on election day the offer will be settled as soon as a candidate is projected to win beyond reasonable doubt."

Why is there two versions of the terms for the same bet if there's nothing wrong with the terms? To me it clearly seems like Unibet noticed they f*cked up and offered a good bet, then decided to change the terms retroactively to cheat the customers with good terms. I know.. I have as much proof of Unibet motives as you have of mine, but since you felt comfortable of making an assumption of my motivations, I figured i'd do the same for Unibet.

 

*2: Thanks for the info.. I have emailed support, but I have received nothing back except the autoreceipt. I will now assume this is me completing the complaints process and I can now proceed to the 3rd party compaint. 

Also: I am not making any personal attack on you or Recorp, but as you are Unibet representatives I can critisize the fact that I have received many promises of co-operation, but nothing that led anywhere. Months of that, and I was very patient in the beginning.Atleast now I know how to proceed, but this treatment is far cry from the promises that were made. If you cannot/will not deliver, do not promise. But if you promise and don't deliver, expect to be called out on it.

 

 

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Thanks for the info.. I have emailed support, but I have received nothing back except the autoreceipt. I will now assume this is me completing the complaints process and I can now proceed to the 3rd party compaint. 

You can complaint anytime you want to 3rd party, don't have to wait anything.

In this case you are just wasting your time thou but if you got nothing else to do. Other option would be to accept the loss and move on to other challenges of life. Up yours but i can promise result of bet won't change.

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@Livertool wrote:

Thanks for the info.. I have emailed support, but I have received nothing back except the autoreceipt. I will now assume this is me completing the complaints process and I can now proceed to the 3rd party compaint. 

You can complaint anytime you want to 3rd party, don't have to wait anything.

In this case you are just wasting your time thou but if you got nothing else to do. Other option would be to accept the loss and move on to other challenges of life. Up yours but i can promise result of bet won't change.


"up yours"? You mean "up to you" I think?

Anyway, I've made the complaint now since I'd rather hear a 3rd party comment on this. I realize they might be just a rubber stamp for the gambling companies, but then I'll know. I've already made the decision to donate any money I glean from Unibet to charity so they can't use stupid arguments like "you're just trying to make a buck off a bad bet". This is about PRINCIPLE!

If I lose the eCogra thing and am unhappy with it, I can still go around the internet when I'm bored, telling my story about unibet on any forum that'll care to listen. I will make Unibet lose the money they stole one way or another. I could've accepted a loss via mediation, but not anymore, not after the runaround "customer service" has given me.

@ReCorpHHäpeäisit, annat lupauksia mitä et näköjään edes aikonut pitää.

 

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up yours"? You mean "up to you" I think?

potato, poteito  :laugh:

Anyway, I've made the complaint now since I'd rather hear a 3rd party comment on this

let us know how it went

Again, you are free to do what you want, just trying point out that is it worth it. To me you are just wasting your time, not hurting unibet in anyway. I have, and probly many other too, been on that road and felt cheated/robbed, usually happens when one is starting to gamble and not understanding terms. Safe way to bet is to do bets that have no room for interpretation and clear terms. 

Out of principle, i would like to not pay xtra taxes when Sanna & suvakit keeps shoveling money all over the place and save whole world. Unfortunarely not an option, all i can do is vote against them. You got to choose your battles ;)

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Again, you are free to do what you want, just trying point out that is it worth it. To me you are just wasting your time, not hurting unibet in anyway. I have, and probly many other too, been on that road and felt cheated/robbed, usually happens when one is starting to gamble and not understanding terms. Safe way to bet is to do bets that have no room for interpretation and clear terms. 

Out of principle, i would like to not pay xtra taxes when Sanna & suvakit keeps shoveling money all over the place and save whole world. Unfortunarely not an option, all i can do is vote against them. You got to choose your battles ;)


 

I got this back from eCOGRA. Now it makes sense why Unibet does not want to engage me officially, but rather by sniping here in the forums and PMs. If they can keep me from completing their formal complaints process (which I've asked several times about), they can stop me from making a 3rd party complaint. Very sneaky on their part.

 

Dispute Form Received

Thank you for submitting your dispute to eCOGRA.

A member of the ADR team will contact you within 7 days to request any additional information, documents or evidence to support your claim.

eCOGRA will:

• Close the dispute if you have not completed the site’s internal complaints procedure.

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