Bots at Unibet.

[Andrew]

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@ArtyMcFly wrote:

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Personally speaking, I'd prefer more transparency from sites. If they could say "We banned X number of players last month, and refunded Y dollars to affected customers", I think a lot of players would feel more at ease. Just "pretending" that there is no cheating going on is a bit insulting to everyone. We KNOW there is cheating going on (on every site) and we want to know that action is being taken.

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I like the idea of doing this too.  The problem in the past has been a lack of suitable venue for saying it.  We don't want to just mail everyone each month and say it, because it's going to put people off - "oh, Party never send me these mails, it must be safer there" is a reaction I can easily imagine.  But it'd work on the community site, thanks for reminding me.

[BroederTuck]

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@Andrew-Unibet wrote:

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@ArtyMcFly wrote:

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Personally speaking, I'd prefer more transparency from sites. If they could say "We banned X number of players last month, and refunded Y dollars to affected customers", I think a lot of players would feel more at ease. Just "pretending" that there is no cheating going on is a bit insulting to everyone. We KNOW there is cheating going on (on every site) and we want to know that action is being taken.

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I like the idea of doing this too.  The problem in the past has been a lack of suitable venue for saying it.  We don't want to just mail everyone each month and say it, because it's going to put people off - "oh, Party never send me these mails, it must be safer there" is a reaction I can easily imagine.  But it'd work on the community site, thanks for reminding me.

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I agree with Arty here. I would love to see more transparency. It's more honest and to be frank, the mails wouldn't put me off. On the contrary, I would feel more safe playing on a site where players are immediatly given notice when a cheating incident has occurred. Like Arty said, we know there's cheating going on, it happens on every site. The important thing is how you deal with it.

On that notice, I've reported a similar case of collusion like the ones in this thread. 4bet, 5bet, 6bet and then fold to a 7bet with only a few cents behind. Really clear case. Reported this on Aug 28th and I still haven't received an answer back about the case. Quite frustrating since you take the time to report it, which hands were suspicious etc. and nothing really comes out of it.

[Andrew]

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@BroederTuck wrote:

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On that notice, I've reported a similar case of collusion like the ones in this thread. 4bet, 5bet, 6bet and then fold to a 7bet with only a few cents behind. Really clear case. Reported this on Aug 28th and I still haven't received an answer back about the case. Quite frustrating since you take the time to report it, which hands were suspicious etc. and nothing really comes out of it.

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This probably isn't collusion, it's probably chip dumping.  I'll see why you haven't had a reply when I'm in on Monday.

[KostenBerg]

I want to report about superuser who i met when playing HU 25 uero SNGs.

I have played 5x SNGs with this guy and won none. He always chekraised or donked me when i missed flop and make contbet. Always raised from button when i have something like 23, 29, 85 and just make a call when i have A10 or A7 for example. Or make a big bets or pot bets when he is dominated me. Maybe he is Nostradamus or Vanga, but i dont think so.

His alias is - 777REAPER

[Jami-Unibet]

Got a similar situation, alias "maymmii" or something similar and another guy with 7's in his name, raising till 2 cents left and folding... Didn't get screenshots in time, left the table after dumping a few hands. @ 4NL

Edit: Aliases "mayyymmii" and "Lu7j77" and the 7 dude with the devil avatar again. Lu7j77 reloaded twice, raised till 0.02€ left and folded.

[Play_Analyst]

Just a few quick questions on the subject of chip dumping.

If they are chip dumping does it follow that they could have any 2 random cards?

If that is the case what's to stop an honest player shoving all in over the top pre flop with say aces kings AKs AKo and snagging them?

Third and final question. If it's later proved that the 2 players concerned had in fact been chip dumping would the innocent 3rd player have to refund any winnings that they made off the 2 fraudulent players?

Only asking as I can see the potential for innocent players to get caught up in what is effectively fraud. I did notice something similar on a PLO table recently but thought nothing of it at the time. (Just figured it was some "muppet" trying to buy pots).  I basically started to call and shove and to be honest I only managed to do it on the player wwho had amassed about 4x the buy in twice before he/she left the table.

I was new to omaha so just trying to contend with 4 cards in the holw was enough at the time.

[Magicadil]

 Chip dumpers usually raise/reraise to get others out of the hand. If it goes raise, reraise, and someone with a legitimate hand shows up and shoves, they would fold. A lot of chip dumpers don't care if they have a weak hand, they're just playing the odds that others can't contest a raise/reraise. Since the money is usually deposited via a stolen credit card or other illegal method, it doesn't make much of a difference to them if they run into someone showing agression.

That's why the penalty for chip dumping is severe. Once caught, should never be allowed back on the site.

[ChapInAChair]

Just off the back of this, people who launder money, which is effectively what happens here, tend to be delighted if the see as much as 30% of the cash they want to clean up. They're not going to mind losing a few hands. Seems weird that they're doing it at low stakes if they're chip dumping though.

[Ramaraider]

Glad to hear. This reinforces the notion that Unibet protects it's players. I feel more comfortable playing here than the other sites. Keep up the good work guys!

[Andrew]

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@KostenBerg wrote:

I want to report about superuser who i met when playing HU 25 uero SNGs.

I have played 5x SNGs with this guy and won none. He always chekraised or donked me when i missed flop and make contbet. Always raised from button when i have something like 23, 29, 85 and just make a call when i have A10 or A7 for example. Or make a big bets or pot bets when he is dominated me. Maybe he is Nostradamus or Vanga, but i dont think so.

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Sometimes people just run good.  The characteristic of the superusers on Absolute &  Ultimate Bet were that they win at an insanely high rate given the way they played the game.  This player is not winning.

[Andrew]

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@ReCorpH wrote:

@Got a similar situation, alias "maymmii" or something similar and another guy with 7's in his name, raising till 2 cents left and folding... Didn't get screenshots in time, left the table after dumping a few hands. @ 4NL

Edit: Aliases "mayyymmii" and "Lu7j77" and the 7 dude with the devil avatar again. Lu7j77 reloaded twice, raised till 0.02€ left and folded.

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Thanks, blocked early in the morning.  I have no idea why they're continuing with this, given how quickly we're catching them.

 

[ArtyMcFly]

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@StartlingGrope wrote:

Just off the back of this, people who launder money, which is effectively what happens here, tend to be delighted if the see as much as 30% of the cash they want to clean up. They're not going to mind losing a few hands. Seems weird that they're doing it at low stakes if they're chip dumping though.

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I'm reminded of the time about 4 years ago when PartyPoker was tracked by PTR and I used to look at the monthly leaderboards to see who my rivals were at 2NL. There would be a dozen or so players apparently winning at over 1000bb/100 (yes, one thousand) over small samples. If I played back their hands on the PTR replayer, it became clear what was happening. Two cheats would "play" heads up for a hundred hands or so (or until someone else joined the table) and one of them would open for $1.99, fold to a shove for 1c more, and then rebuy, rinse and repeat.

If you can "launder" two dollars every 10 seconds or so, you can presumably transfer a considerable sum (from a stolen credit card, for example) quite quickly. I guess the games weren't as secure back then, or some anti-fraud departments turned a blind eye, because the kind of chip-dumping I described above happened for months if not years. Unfortunately, the type of people (often lowrent gangs in Eastern Europe) that have "access" to stolen credit cards also tend to have access to fake ID cards, so shutting their accounts sadly only inconveniences them, as they just keep making new accounts and repeating the process (sometimes just to clear a $20 deposit bonus or something ridiculous), because making a few quid here and there is better than nothing for people like that.

FWIW, Unibet seems like a bad choice of site to choose for this kind of chip-dumping, partly because of the lack of table selection or heads up cash games. Hopefully these guys will give up soon, as it's annoying for players and for the security dept. All we can do is keep reporting suspicious activity, and spread the word that Unibet actively shuts down dodgy accounts.

[Play_Analyst]

I'm sure I'm not alone in wishing that other sites seemed as obviously pro active in rooting out these people and banning them from the site. It does give you the to keep coming back so well done to the CS team and  for the diligence shown.

I'll be sure to report any suspicious behaviour I see myself whist at the tables.

Might it also be worthwhile pinning a thread to the board where we can report any suspected suspicious behaviour?

[Andrew]

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ArtyMcFly wrote:

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Unfortunately, the type of people (often lowrent gangs in Eastern Europe) that have "access" to stolen credit cards also tend to have access to fake ID cards, so shutting their accounts sadly only inconveniences them, as they just keep making new accounts and repeating the process (sometimes just to clear a $20 deposit bonus or something ridiculous), because making a few quid here and there is better than nothing for people like that.

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We have automatic systems that notify us when something like this happens.  While we can't then freeze them immediately as it needs human intervention, we should definitely be able to freeze them before they can withdraw the money.  

This is another case where security doesn't need to be totally perfect, it just needs to be less profitable for these guys than it would be elsewhere.  As you say, some sites have historically not been doing a lot about this, even though it directly affects their bottom line (they don't get that money from the stolen card).  

[juicyapple]

@Andrew. Do u really think u can stop the cheater or dumper to withdrawel? In my oppinion its like 50/50 or even more People Who can withdrawel After Dumping arround.

 

1. Most chipdumper showing up on night because there are less tables.

2. Is there always someone from unibet 24/7 to Check the Accounts and frezze the accounts. As i know from live Support there are not always someone there to freeze the accs, especially over night or weekend.

3. Unibet has one of the fastes withdrawel and if the acc will not get freeze After couple hours then the money is gone from the System.

 

Maybe on point 3 unibet could change something, like trusted/wellknown/verified accs can withdrawel in couple hours and all other User have to w8 like 12/24h before the withdrawel will be done.

This give maybe more security for unibet.

 

 

This are just my thougts and maybe it can maybe the System Safer and screw the dumpers.

[Andrew]

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@juicyapple wrote:

@Andrew. Do u really think u can stop the cheater or dumper to withdrawel? In my oppinion its like 50/50 or even more People Who can withdrawel After Dumping arround.

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Well, like I say.  We don't need to stop EVERY withdrawl.  We simply need to catch more than other sites do.  When that happens, the dumpers will move to other sites, or start using another method.  This is the same with almost every problem in security - you can't make 100% secure systems.

The more that someone does it though, the more readily we can build a profile and ensure that they're caught faster each time.  The more profiles we have, the harder it is for people in the future to do the same thing.

[KostenBerg]

I want to report about this guys - ToJestejJa and cizia_M

Please check this hand

 

[Andrew]

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@KostenBerg wrote:

I want to report about this guys - ToJestejJa and cizia_M

Please check this hand

 

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Thanks for the report.  I've passed it on to the fraud team and I'll let you know what they say.

[KostenBerg]

So, what they say, Andrew?

can I get back my buyin?