SNG changes coming in February (most likely)

[Stubbe-Unibet]

Thought I'd give you guys as much advance notice as possible. It's pending regulatory approval, but I expect us to be making two changes to the SNG's with the February release:

1. Starting stack in 5 seat SNG will be changed from 2000 to 1500 chips. No further changes to this format expected in February, but I'm still planning to get the MTT break added to 5 seat SNG's. When this happens, we might add back the €50 stake.
2. HU SNG raked will be increased, to be more in-line with rest of the industry. This is a complex one, but to keep it simple, the game format itself has questionable impact on the site as a whole, so offering the - by far - lowest rake in the industry simply doesn't make sense. New rake below.

2 Handed Sit & Go
€1 (€0.96 + €0.04)
€2 (€1.92 + €0.08)
€4 (€3.84 + €0.16)
€10 (€9.60 + €0.40)
€25 (€24.00 + €1.00)
€50 (€47.75 + €2.25)
€100 (€95.50 + €4.50)
€200 (€191.00 + €9.00)

No HexaPro changes planned in February, but we'll make preparations for a potential daily special with HexaPro Omaha. Furthermore, we're reviewing the rake, and games as a whole, at the higher stakes and it's possible we'll be lowering the rake for at least the two highest stakes. More about this in the coming months. 

[ilariUNIBET]

Sad but fair. If this increases your total rake from SNG's then fine. Unibet is the only site where is lots of reg battles all the time so this might have an affect on that. 

What comes to HU SNG's in general, keep in mind that many players play only these and without these they wouldn't have money on unibet. The reason is that HU SNG's are so different from other formats that many regulars in these are total fish in any other format. Also heads up is by far the most fun format to play and has lots of post flop plays and winning feelings for anyone (at least 45% to win a tournament even if you go all in every hand). 

[Stubbe-Unibet]

2 minutes ago, ilariUNIBET said:

Sad but fair. If this increases your total rake from SNG's then fine. Unibet is the only site where is lots of reg battles all the time so this might have an affect on that. 

What comes to HU SNG's in general, keep in mind that many players play only these and without these they wouldn't have money on unibet. The reason is that HU SNG's are so different from other formats that many regulars in these are total fish in any other format. Also heads up is by far the most fun format to play and has lots of post flop plays and winning feelings for anyone (at least 45% to win a tournament even if you go all in every hand). 

You're right that there're regs exclusively playing HU SNG, but as for the worse players, there's a significant overlap with HexaPro for the vast, vast majority. When it becomes a 50/50 or even 70/30 split in game count, it's of course incredibly difficult to predict the impact of the higher rake. Not because the rake itself will have any impact on these casual players (they generally don't care), but because it might lead to less games overall/more waiting time. However, I'm confident the site is way better off like this, and it's a change that really should have been done years ago 🙂 I expect waiting time for casuals to still be acceptable, despite an expected drop in traffic. And even if games were to be impacted much more than expected, it is most likely a good thing for HexaPro (again, really difficult to predict, when customers are playing multiple game formats).

[NewPlayer69]

Disappointing but understandable

[ogogogogo]

According to my calculations, such an increase in rake in HU is equivalent to the abolition of rakeback for the player. I would like unibet to correspond to the industry level not only in terms of rake, but also in terms of security. Then HU would not have a negative impact on the site as a whole. I've been playing for a long time and new scammers constantly appear that I have to play with. After some time, I think they are still blocked by the security service. But after some time, the scammers return with a new account. I play in another European room and there are no such problems with scammers. After several years of playing there, I met only one scammer.

[FaiDeaEmo]

Usually with one exception(Jackpot Sit&Go) Sit&Go formats that end faster also have lower rake %, any plans to change that any time soon?

[Stubbe-Unibet]

On 1/23/2024 at 3:07 PM, ogogogogo said:

According to my calculations, such an increase in rake in HU is equivalent to the abolition of rakeback for the player. I would like unibet to correspond to the industry level not only in terms of rake, but also in terms of security. Then HU would not have a negative impact on the site as a whole. I've been playing for a long time and new scammers constantly appear that I have to play with. After some time, I think they are still blocked by the security service. But after some time, the scammers return with a new account. I play in another European room and there are no such problems with scammers. After several years of playing there, I met only one scammer.

Just report the players if you come across something suspicious. We generally review reports within 24-48 hours.

3 hours ago, FaiDeaEmo said:

Usually with one exception(Jackpot Sit&Go) Sit&Go formats that end faster also have lower rake %, any plans to change that any time soon?

For now, no changes planned outside of what's mentioned in OP 🙂 

[CAJE007]

Dear Stubbe,

To my surprise, I observed yesterday that the starting stack in sit & go's has been reduced to 1,500 chips. In the meantime, I have read your announcement regarding this change. Since day 1 of the renewed Unibet Poker site, I have been playing an average of three hours of S&G per day. As a loyal customer, I therefore have the right to respond to this ridiculous and thoughtless alteration.

 

Of course, you immediately revert to the argument that the S&G format is unprofitable. That's simply a fallacy. This isn't about loss, it's about making more profit. Secondly, as a poker expert, you know well enough the impact of this adjustment. You're making the S&G format completely uninteresting for the "better" players and simply increasing the gambling element. You've turned a turbo into a hyper-turbo to indulge the gamblers.

Therefore, I would like to ask if there is a possibility that this change could be reversed.

Regards

 

[Stubbe-Unibet]

1 hour ago, CAJE007 said:

Dear Stubbe,

To my surprise, I observed yesterday that the starting stack in sit & go's has been reduced to 1,500 chips. In the meantime, I have read your announcement regarding this change. Since day 1 of the renewed Unibet Poker site, I have been playing an average of three hours of S&G per day. As a loyal customer, I therefore have the right to respond to this ridiculous and thoughtless alteration.

 

Of course, you immediately revert to the argument that the S&G format is unprofitable. That's simply a fallacy. This isn't about loss, it's about making more profit. Secondly, as a poker expert, you know well enough the impact of this adjustment. You're making the S&G format completely uninteresting for the "better" players and simply increasing the gambling element. You've turned a turbo into a hyper-turbo to indulge the gamblers.

Therefore, I would like to ask if there is a possibility that this change could be reversed.

Regards

 

I'm not going to say the SNG format is unprofitable. First of all, let's distinguish between HU and 5 seat. If we focus on 5 seat, I still believe it has its place, even if it's doesn't drive much revenue.

However, I'm not planning to revert this change. It's part of a bigger plan for the format, which for instance entails adding the hourly MTT break, as already mentioned. 

That being said, I do listen to the feedback and will obviously monitor the data, and it's not impossible the change would be reverted at some point - just don't count on it 🙂 

[CAJE007]

 

I can only appreciate that you don't even bother to deny that you're disadvantaging the "better" players with this change and have opted to turn the 5-handed S&G into a gambling game. For your information, the few (Belgian) players I've talked to about this feel the same way.

 

What do you mean by "adding a break"? Hopefully not that you're planning to introduce a pause during an S&G so that players can play something else in the meantime?

 

[Stubbe-Unibet]

6 minutes ago, CAJE007 said:

 

I can only appreciate that you don't even bother to deny that you're disadvantaging the "better" players with this change and have opted to turn the 5-handed S&G into a gambling game. For your information, the few (Belgian) players I've talked to about this feel the same way.

 

What do you mean by "adding a break"? Hopefully not that you're planning to introduce a pause during an S&G so that players can play something else in the meantime?

 

 

I don't agree with your choice of words; turning it into a gambling game. Obviously edge is linked to starting stack and game speed, but this is not suddenly some crazy hyper-turbo game 🙂

Adding a break: pausing SNG's between 00:54 and 00:00 of every hour, as MTT's. There's a really significant overlap between 5 seat SNG players and MTT regs, but it's currently hard to mix the two games. You can only fire up SNG's early in the hour, as otherwise you risk not having a break.

[urdeadpre]

6 hours ago, CAJE007 said:

Dear Stubbe,

To my surprise, I observed yesterday that the starting stack in sit & go's has been reduced to 1,500 chips. In the meantime, I have read your announcement regarding this change. Since day 1 of the renewed Unibet Poker site, I have been playing an average of three hours of S&G per day. As a loyal customer, I therefore have the right to respond to this ridiculous and thoughtless alteration.

 

Of course, you immediately revert to the argument that the S&G format is unprofitable. That's simply a fallacy. This isn't about loss, it's about making more profit. Secondly, as a poker expert, you know well enough the impact of this adjustment. You're making the S&G format completely uninteresting for the "better" players and simply increasing the gambling element. You've turned a turbo into a hyper-turbo to indulge the gamblers.

Therefore, I would like to ask if there is a possibility that this change could be reversed.

Regards

 

agree 100% this may drive away some players that will see these as luck-fests now. Unibet will get their rake quicker, that's the only positive i can see for anyone here. Can i ask?....were sit & go players asked for their input on this change? in what way do you think this is of benefit to players?

[Luka Donkic]

Hi Stubbe,

Can you reconsider at least to get back to old rake sizing at the highest  HU SNG stakes? 200s and 100s and maybe 50s?

This seems lose/lose/lose to everyone from my point of view.

Site will lose because there will no be any reg wars anymore and we all know in reg wars the site is the only winner. Also some regs will totally move to other sites and lobbies will be much more free so recreationals will not be able to play when they want and site will not get rake. That lack of getting action immediately is also reason why this change is not good for recreationals + losing money much faster. For regs this change is not good for obvious reasons.

Other sites have lower rake % when you go up the stakes but unibet made it opposite. The rake is lower at lowest stakes, which very unusual. Also on other sites regs literally never play each other but here because of blind lobbies and non exsistance of  cartels they do sometimes even if one of them doesn't want to fight (for example when one of regs is starting session). That's why they lose some extra money in those reg vs reg game compared to regs on other sites and it's extra reason why this will probably totally kill action at higher stakes and hurt regs enormously.

Looking forward to hear your answer!

 

 

[Stubbe-Unibet]

7 hours ago, Luka Donkic said:

Hi Stubbe,

Can you reconsider at least to get back to old rake sizing at the highest  HU SNG stakes? 200s and 100s and maybe 50s?

This seems lose/lose/lose to everyone from my point of view.

Site will lose because there will no be any reg wars anymore and we all know in reg wars the site is the only winner. Also some regs will totally move to other sites and lobbies will be much more free so recreationals will not be able to play when they want and site will not get rake. That lack of getting action immediately is also reason why this change is not good for recreationals + losing money much faster. For regs this change is not good for obvious reasons.

Other sites have lower rake % when you go up the stakes but unibet made it opposite. The rake is lower at lowest stakes, which very unusual. Also on other sites regs literally never play each other but here because of blind lobbies and non exsistance of  cartels they do sometimes even if one of them doesn't want to fight (for example when one of regs is starting session). That's why they lose some extra money in those reg vs reg game compared to regs on other sites and it's extra reason why this will probably totally kill action at higher stakes and hurt regs enormously.

Looking forward to hear your answer!

 

 

The old rake was frankly ridiculous, and I can promise we'll never return to such a low HU rake. That doesn't mean small adjustments can't be made, but boosting the most predatory and easy-to-solve format with industry low rake, that is a thing of the past 🙂

I'm confident this change is for the better, and I do expect less traffic at HU. The games are still viable and we have of course reviewed the data, before making the change. A traffic drop is expected and not seen as an issue.

[Stubbe-Unibet]

On 2/14/2024 at 6:50 PM, urdeadpre said:

agree 100% this may drive away some players that will see these as luck-fests now. Unibet will get their rake quicker, that's the only positive i can see for anyone here. Can i ask?....were sit & go players asked for their input on this change? in what way do you think this is of benefit to players?

Apologies for the slow reply here, but it's been a busy week, and this is a complex topic.

First of all; yes, players were involved here. I was not expecting existing regs to absolutely love this change, so your feedback isn't a surprise to me. I understand why you want the 2k stack back, and I am expecting to see a short-term drop in traffic in the 5 seat games.

Ultimately, I'd like to offer a slower (compared to HexaPro) and more old-fashioned kind of SNG's. Unfortunately, there're circumstances out of my control, which could mean a drop of 40% in traffic, at 5 seat SNG specifically, in about 12 months. That could be the end of the format, if we don't manage to make the format attractive to a wider group of players. I'm not going to comment further on that here, but just believe me when I say that we likely want quite similar things here; Unibet offering a relatively slow and traditional SNG format.
This starting stack change is a gamble, and it's of course a possibility it'll make things worse. However, I do feel it's worth a try, and I hope to combine it with at least one other change, as mentioned earlier in the thread.

While I can guarantee the HU rake won't return to the old figure, I'm not certain that this starting stack change won't be reverted.

[WuDu]

On 2/16/2024 at 11:08 AM, Stubbe-Unibet said:

Unfortunately, there're circumstances out of my control, which could mean a drop of 40% in traffic, at 5 seat SNG specifically, in about 12 months.

[Livertool]

10 hours ago, WuDu said:

I just read in another thread that accepting only certain money from certain markets is called having a spine 😁