Banzai Feedback

[Ashenfaced]

Hi @Stubbe-Unibet, 

I'd like to give some feedback on the Banzai rake changes as a recreational player who has put in (What i see as) decent volume in the Banzai formats. 

Overall, I think the increase is far too much, the games wont be able to handle it. 

Since the start of 2020 I've played 140k hands of B20, raking €5.7k and profiting about €12.4k, which is 4.5bb/100.
If you increase the rake 2.5x, that 5.7k turns into 14.25, meaning that for the same period and level of play, I'd now be at +€3.8k - knocking my winrate down by 70%(!!!) to <1.5bb and making it not worth playing. 

I often start games and play shorthanded, stopping doing that would mean less hands overall for the Banzai format 

As a sweetener, I've also raked 5k in HUSNGs and tbh I only play them when Banzai isn't running, against opponents who hold lobbies (IE my game is always the marginal addition, so its prob 10k that wouldnt have been raked). 

I know that the money for promotions has to come from somewhere, but this ruins a format that is the only reason I log into Unibet and is unbeatable on other sites where rake is higher, such as Sky which I quit playing on after they took their business in a similar direction. I think the maximum that the game would support long term is 1.5%, with 2.5% you are very seriously risking a dead format, at least for vast swathes of the day; Its likely to always run Fri/Sat night of course. 
 

Edited October 26, 2022 by Ashenfaced
Additional info

[Stubbe-Unibet]

Current rake:

Stake (Blinds €)	Rake %	Cap €
NL1 (0.05/0.10)	1	3
NL5 (0.25/0.50)	1	3
NL20 (1/2)	1	3
NL50 (2.5/5)	2.5	1.5

 

New rake:

Stake (Blinds €)	Rake %	Cap €
NL1 (0.05/0.10)	2	0.25
NL5 (0.25/0.50)	2	0.5
NL20 (1/2)	2.5	1
NL50 (2.5/5)	2.5	1.5
NL100 (5/10)	2.5	2

 

So we are not talking 2.5x increase of rake. It is true that NL20 is increased from 1% to 2.5% but the cap is also reduced from €3 to €1.

Furthermore, if you play a decent volume, it will also mean you get a higher rakeback percentage. Lastly, as you've obviously read, part of the reason for the increase is that it'll allow us to run promotions, which means even greater rakeback.

[Stubbe-Unibet]

Looking at simulations for July and August (when we did the analysis), top 10 players by hands played at NL20, they'll have their profit reduced by approx. 32% - and this is without considering RB and promo increase.

Another aspect that has to be considered is the fact that more recreationals and new players will be pushed to the format. We will for instance create a new Banzai only client, which will be added to some of our casino brands (like Mariacasino, bingo.com and Vlad)

[Ashenfaced]

When you did the simulations, was it done per hand? 

[Stubbe-Unibet]

Just now, Ashenfaced said:

When you did the simulations, was it done per hand? 

Yes, no other way to do it 🙂 

[Ashenfaced]

Just now, Stubbe-Unibet said:

Yes, no other way to do it 🙂 

I agree, however as it took 2 weeks and 7 email chasers for me to get my results for Banzai I had to check! 

Well to strike at the heart of the issue, the rakeback and promotions will never equal the extra rake that I pay, esp with my on/off, on/off volume, so I overall cant factor that in very heavily. I have a few followup questions if you dont mind; 

If you have/will give out further info, does that % filter down to the more marginal winners like myself, given it will have a proportionally higher impact on lower winrates?
(If you have modelled results for me specifically i would be very interested in having it PM'ed to me)

Will you be consistently monitoring the health/liquidity of Banzai games & consider reversing/altering this?

Do you have any further details on the promos (esp if they have relevance to a rec like me) ? 

[Stubbe-Unibet]

1 minute ago, Ashenfaced said:

I agree, however as it took 2 weeks and 7 email chasers for me to get my results for Banzai I had to check! 

Well to strike at the heart of the issue, the rakeback and promotions will never equal the extra rake that I pay, esp with my on/off, on/off volume, so I overall cant factor that in very heavily. I have a few followup questions if you dont mind; 

If you have/will give out further info, does that % filter down to the more marginal winners like myself, given it will have a proportionally higher impact on lower winrates?
(If you have modelled results for me specifically i would be very interested in having it PM'ed to me)

Will you be consistently monitoring the health/liquidity of Banzai games & consider reversing/altering this?

Do you have any further details on the promos (esp if they have relevance to a rec like me) ? 

You had so little volume in the period that there's nothing to share really. We did review the entire customer base, but we focused on the player segments we believe are playing more seriously to make a profit.

Yes, we will be monitoring things.

No, nothing to share on promos just yet, but it'll come. There'll be a small thing in December, a bigger thing in January and depending on the game performance we'll regularly run promotions on Banzai and/or include it in promotions for "regular" cash games.

I've personally pushed for lowest MTT fee "guarantee" and lower fees on select cash game stakes in recent years. I like to believe I'm no enemy of the players and very, very reasonable when it comes to rake. Again, we're still miles from all other competitors even with the new rake.

I really do believe games will become a fair bit softer and it'll remain a profitable format, even if most players will see their win per hand reduced. If this doesn't happen and games die, we'll of course make changes to the game (also before the ecology collapses).