Sitting abuse - nl400 - please change something

[123457]

Hi

I will try my best to explain the issue shortly and clearly, also I will leave some examples at the end.

Unibet reps, please pay attention, English is not my first language and I might miss some info (which I think are obvious or not) but I am here for any further questions.

 

For quite some time there are situations when table is not full and the certain player(s)LEAVES AND INSTANT REJOINS THE SAME TABLE JUST FOR THE PURPOSE TO (HOPEFULLY) CHANGE THE SEAT AND GET A POSITION OVER FISH.

Im not sure how the algorithm works but its definitely possible to change your seat sometimes. it is done usually in the late night/early morning (probably not just then) when there are not so many players and tables are not full. it is done MAINLY BY ONE REG, he plays nl200 and nl400, he is literally using every possible situation to gain any edge.

I strongly  believe that the sitting algorithm has to change, "if a player leaves a table and rejoins the same table in next 10 minutes he is seated at the same seat, unless the seat is taken", I am hoping it should be a simple matter of coding

Also, I would like to get your attention to one more thing, while this "seat changing" is done but not only then, this player (who is trying to change his seat) and also some other regs, are changing their nicknames, rejoining the same table with different name. I personally as a long time reg do not mind it that much, but I think its not fair.

Its not fair to the regs who are battling without a fish and especially its not fair to the fish (the semi anonymity is great and is about to protect the weaker players long term but in this case is hurting them short term). I know that no system is perfect, but maybe you can think about the new "change/rule" which forbids to join the same table with the different nickname 5-10 minutes after you left?
 

I will try to show it with examples, all hands are from last 2 days and its the same player who is doing the abuse.

Sorry if the quality of photos/videos is not the best.

-

https://gyazo.com/d0f27d92de1ece1c8c062707d202062b

first row one table

"takoijmaloj" rejoins as "kiskl3" to gain position over a weaker player "jasonfcinter" who left few hands after (he is not an idiot).

second row another table

”kiskl3" rejoins as "karpatskij" to gain position over "RickGrimes79"

if you wish I can give you hand numbers where fish looses his stack and straight after that this guy of course leaves on his next bb. Predatory as it could be.

- https://gyazo.com/dbf786372cfa18b4d5d27e1086ee1551

"pol1sh" rejoins to gain position over "MrJackpot"

- https://gyazo.com/c47006704a58401649dfc4c60928c59e

"pol1sh" rejoins as "sawrskij" to gain position over "MrJackpot" unsuccessfully, just during that another player "Vinroeden" joined

- https://gyazo.com/4e279c7d1b2884bcec4034c523c64fe6 https://gyazo.com/bf5a70218498672b6a6045f79fb17655

this one I didnt catch clearly, "jabonRigged" is a strange player, weaker and tired semi reg probably who was leaving the table often and coming back, but the moment there was an empty seat in position on the fish "MrJackpot", "sawrskij" was on the mission to try to get it.

- https://gyazo.com/524f55c3fe80fd3f979db8df99cca6c1 https://gyazo.com/fec433c29feea43d40da762f972d215f https://gyazo.com/d8a9ab7c68926805a125e0f3ca10418c

this one is difficult for the eyes, before the videos start "jabonRigged" left the table and opened the seat in position on fish "MrJackpot",

1/3 "skater3" is seen only rejoining here ("skater3" is the same player as "sawrskij", "pol1sh" who played the same table) unsuccessfully to change the seats.

2/3 "skater3" rejoining for the second time IN JUST FEW HANDS successfully changing the seat, "jabonRigged" also came back and lost the good seat.

3/3 WATCH CAREFULLY, this is 1/3 and 2/3 together, in the beginning I played the hand live play by play so its possible to see his first attempt to change the seat (I have 58s), later I skipped 2 hands when he in the meantime managed to change his seat, pause towards the end of the video or see the 2/3 gyazo.

He literally rejoined the table 2 times in 3 hands!

 

These are just some hands, often you dont even notice an attempt to change the seat, pay attention how much hunted "MrJackpot" was the entire time.

This is unfortunately the natural environment lately on nl200-400 games when tables are not full and this player is around, who btw plays a lot and for a long time on Unibet!

Unibet guys we need some little changes when it comes to sitting algorithm, can you please do something?
More people are starting to do the same thing (not heavily like this guy) and I am afraid it can have a strong negative effect on fishes and also on Unibet in general (Unibet is still great, without a doubt).

 

Thank you all for reading 

[Stubbe-Unibet]

Hey @123457, appreciate the report! Took some action on one of the accounts and will look into it all after the summer break

[123457]

14 hours ago, Stubbe-Unibet said:

Hey @123457, appreciate the report! Took some action on one of the accounts and will look into it all after the summer break

Thanks, today when the seat opened up in position of fish he didn’t try to change it. Also he played a little bit 3handed with regs.

Thank you.

[123457]

@Stubbe-Unibet Can you please tell what kind of action did you take on the certain account?

It seems that he continued to do it.

https://gyazo.com/1be825c0e813a9361ee7d9a8861308f2

https://gyazo.com/4cc9116f6a3a81d0c84103ac466c5436

"vikii3" leaves and rejoins as "Belasting420" trying to gain position over "lilwonnie" and "degveg"
later on successfully leaving as "Belasting420" and rejoining as "yourmine"

 

https://gyazo.com/dc45ff9263fdc5890e6a5ad1ed6f8029

"yourmine" trying to gain position over "hobihibi22"

 

https://gyazo.com/db62c4a5fa63cbfd2c53995d8984e545

successfully "tiovca" gaining position over "Knoppen"

THESE ARE JUST SOME OF THE HANDS. 
Its super unfair and annoying, not even to mention that he is playing very little regular games and constantly joining tables when the number on lobby changes and leaves if the new player isnt a fish.

 

 

[Stubbe-Unibet]

@123457, these aliases don't all belong to the same player, but you're right the warning doesn't seem to have done its job quite well enough

[123457]

Hi

Could you please tell is there any update regarding this issue?

unfortunately how summer is approaching and there are less and less games the brutal bumhunting is more and more often.

few people never play with regs and are trying to use every single edge they can, it feels so stupid to play hu or reg wars when some people are constantly rejoining the tables to check who is playing and the worst thing is the seat changing thing which unfortunately your seating algorithm is letting them do.

 

Unibet reps can you please escalate the issue and change the code if the player leaves the table he has to rejoin the same seat in next 15 minutes (not if the seat is taken)?

I am afraid you are not aware how bad this looks, not just from fish perspective but from regulars as well, especially new players recreational or professional, people trying to adjust/see Unibets different poker system will see this super shady.

I will leave below some examples 

https://gyazo.com/9dfa7ce6df476dc5f4bfd9e7b36d865b

route69 rejoins the table to gain position over birdie2

https://gyazo.com/a8df55533fe83cdc8e2e8bfbc12da8d4

few minutes later birdie2 leaves the table and ofc route69 does the same, notice, this was recorded live


https://gyazo.com/2fb521f63a3b2652101079c80514384d

wasteurbb rejoins the table (and changes his nickname) to gain position over ar77

https://gyazo.com/ff2a47d4d6acfbe565a26668017830ea

St-Patrick rejoins the table to change the seat and get position over Yanks.


These are just some of the situations I captured, hopefully something can be done.

Thank you


 

[Stubbe-Unibet]

I can look into it again Monday. I don't believe any of the previously reported players have still got access to the site  

[Pokerist_LV]

I was sure that if the landing algorithms sometimes allow you to change the seat, then this is not prohibited. At least many players have always done so. So I didn't know it would upset anyone or that it looked bad. 

On poker sites where you can choose your own seat at the table - this was a common practice with the opportunity to take a seat in position for a recreational player or sit in such a way as to be in position for an empty seat.

And i am very sorry if my action upset someone from recreational players and for sure I will try not to do that again.

But you need to understand that leaving the table and sitting back is not always an attempt to change seat. For example, a person left a table that made no sense to play, then the number of players in the lobby increased and the person sat back. Or, what happens even more often, a person wants to sit at a table with a stack of 100bb, not 200bb (and this is allowed to be done a certain number of times a day).

Edited May 21 by Pokerist_LV

[123457]

Hi Pokerist

thanks for the message, I will try to reply and give a different perspective.

On 21/05/2024 at 21:32, Pokerist_LV said:

I was sure that if the landing algorithms sometimes allow you to change the seat, then this is not prohibited. At least many players have always done so. So I didn't know it would upset anyone or that it looked bad. 

Many players disappearing and coming back instantly looks bad even without changing the seat, stack size or nickname at least for me. Even if the recreational player doesn't care/know being hunted you changing the seat and gaining advantage through position gives everyone a disadvantage, that's kinda upsetting  esp if you have battled regs and the person who changed the seat was not.

But please don't get me wrong I totally understand the reasoning behind your actions but I just think it is going too far and the chain reactions will not be good for anyone thats why Im asking for the seating algorithm to be changed.

 

 

On 21/05/2024 at 21:32, Pokerist_LV said:

On poker sites where you can choose your own seat at the table - this was a common practice with the opportunity to take a seat in position for a recreational player or sit in such a way as to be in position for an empty seat.

On those poker websites its much easier to do that and it looks much less ''shady''(no nickname change, no stack size change), recreational players can do the same easily and on Unibet where you just see the pool and not the tables it's even hard to change the table (from a recs perspective who doesn't know how Unibets system work) not the seat.

The website which has the most similar software to Unibet doesn't allow seat changing and if you leave the table you are not allowed back for a certain amount of time (I dont know the exact details but we can check).
The biggest website rn is giving warnings and banns for this kind of behaviour.

 

On 21/05/2024 at 21:32, Pokerist_LV said:

And i am very sorry if my action upset someone from recreational players and for sure I will try not to do that again.

 

Thanks, it would be nicer if no one would do it

 

On 21/05/2024 at 21:32, Pokerist_LV said:

But you need to understand that leaving the table and sitting back is not always an attempt to change seat. For example, a person left a table that made no sense to play, then the number of players in the lobby increased and the person sat back. Or, what happens even more often, a person wants to sit at a table with a stack of 100bb, not 200bb (and this is allowed to be done a certain number of times a day).

I understand 100% of the times what is happening and why, you have to understand that people who are playing without recreational players on the table are not bots and they see everything (at least the ones who have been playing on Unibet for a long time). Number of players in the lobby changes and then we have a chain reaction of regs joining in playing one orbit or if they see a same look of the table they just leave without playing.

I would like to add one point here why having a different seat is also not fair, what happens often is that regs would play 2-3 handed, other regs periodically joining in and leaving when there is no fish. After some time fish joins and the table gets full. Outcome is that the regs who kept the table alive don't know against which reg are they playing (if he changed the nickname) and the ''new'' reg(s) are aware. It would be easier to know if he had to be sat at the same seat all the time.
 

I am aware that sitting back in with the smaller stack is allowed but it's limited for a reason

I am also aware that siting out and back in after 3 seconds is not because someone is having a quick break, its because his bb approached and he doesnt want to play that table until the recreational player reloads (after he busted) while playing the other tables.
Also I am aware that posting Omg emojis while the regular is all in on the river vs the recreational player is trying to signal him he has a big hand and he should fold.

You can ofc agree or disagree with me, i know that I am also subjective and that not everything can be perfect.

I think Unibet and its system does a great job in protecting recreational players and providing a very fair game (If I remember correctly that was on of the main reasons why Unibet made their own poker room) but i think some small changes are necessary.

https://gyazo.com/f6636347d0c5a9c00c2a7697e1c692e8

one example of a same regular recreational player like last week ''Yanks'' trying to be hunted, can not be good long term in my opinion

Stubbe, could you please tell me your (personal) view on the issue? I seem to be the only one who is bothered by this, am I paying to much attention to details?

Thank you all for reading







 

[Stubbe-Unibet]

3 hours ago, 123457 said:

Stubbe, could you please tell me your (personal) view on the issue? I seem to be the only one who is bothered by this, am I paying to much attention to details?

Thank you all for reading

I got some data on this last week, but I haven't had time to analyze it yet. At first glance, it does not look like much of an issue I have to say. I'll review it at some point this week.

[Pokerist_LV]

On 27/05/2024 at 06:19, 123457 said:

Also I am aware that posting Omg emojis while the regular is all in on the river vs the recreational player is trying to signal him he has a big hand and he should fold.

It means that I shouldn't do that? Overall, I agree with what you write. It sounds reasonable and logical. Also, I think it would be a good idea if you couldn't re-seat with a different nickname for X minutes.

On 27/05/2024 at 06:19, 123457 said:

I understand 100% of the times what is happening and why, you have to understand that people who are playing without recreational players on the table

In this matter, it would still be correct to listen not only to the opinion of the NL400 regs, who have a minimum rake and maximum rakeback and can play a lot of regwars) I play nl200 and nl100, and I have a higher rake in BB/100 and a lower rakeback, so I have to choose which tables to play and which ones to close. And this seems normal and reasonable.

Subjectively, it seems to me that it would be better if the regs did not go to different tables under different nicknames, but played at all tables with the same nickname). 

Edited May 28 by Pokerist_LV

[123457]

19 hours ago, Pokerist_LV said:

It means that I shouldn't do that?

You can but should you its debatable, I personally don't mind it. My general point is that the environment is becoming too predatory.

19 hours ago, Pokerist_LV said:

Also, I think it would be a good idea if you couldn't re-seat with a different nickname for X minutes.

I couldn't agree more.

 

19 hours ago, Pokerist_LV said:

In this matter, it would still be correct to listen not only to the opinion of the NL400 regs, who have a minimum rake and maximum rakeback and can play a lot of regwars) I play nl200 and nl100, and I have a higher rake in BB/100 and a lower rakeback, so I have to choose which tables to play and which ones to close. And this seems normal and reasonable.

Very fair point, tbh I didn't think about that.

19 hours ago, Pokerist_LV said:

Subjectively, it seems to me that it would be better if the regs did not go to different tables under different nicknames, but played at all tables with the same nickname). 

Disagree on this one, I think it would change a lot Unibets system which in general is great, and it would benefit stronger players over weak the ones, that being said I often play with 1 nickname. 

Good luck at the tables