Tom Siddle

2 minutes ago, Stubbe-Unibet said:

When I said the game is better, I meant just that, based on the data we got. I didn't mean that your issues in particular is what makes it better. I'm repeating myself, but I agree it should be possible to carry stack forward/avoid reset, so obviously it's not the case that I think the game is doing better because of this change specifically.

Sitouts being reduced significantly and games being faster and thereby more mobile friendly, that is very likely to be having a positive impact, but even if mobile traffic is up, I can't say that it's due to this specifically. Again, I'm talking about the game as a whole, and it's 100% certain the improved numbers are not just due to Banzai being in the header. 

Why do the sit outs have a positive impact? People just get angry when they try to do something quick like answer door or go toilet and get kicked out (And lose the stack they’ve been building)

There have been good and bad changes and I think the ones I talk about are the bad ones. 
 

I think you underestimate the header but that’s hard to evaluate.

Its fine that we have difference of opinion, don’t want it to be frosty.

3 hours ago, Stubbe-Unibet said:

Of course we can.

Even if solely looking at transactional data, you can establish whether it's a better-liked game by for instance looking at retention rate, average game launches etc. etc. 

 

Yes, can share some data later. I'm off sick today so only doing urgent stuff.

How would you know though why the retention rate is, you don’t know it would be because of the reasons I talk about (stacks resetting, break time being reduced, alias removal, 5 handed, games breaking quick).

It could be other reasons, the game looks much nicer now and has a more fun vibe,  or it could be for other reasons I don’t know. 

1 hour ago, fornicator99 said:

 

Was fun watching this  for a while but this just burns my eyes. It's obvious that no reg likes it but how do you know about what recs think?  I've seen mentioned the notion of "fun". They only people for which the games need to be fun are the recs and they seem to like it otherwise they wouldn't continue to lose money. You just keep repeating the obvious complaints of a reg and basically want NL200 but with banzai spaz fish that get it in with top pair 200 bb deep. I get it, I would love it too, it was fun while it lasted, but games change and everyone needs to adapt. my 2c
@Stubbe-Unibet Would it be possible to share some insight about how the game changed? Are there regs that do better, are recs losing slower, are there more new players than before, etc?

It’s not really adapting is it, it’s just easier now cos it’s closer to nash open shove and 3b shove ranges. 
 

We can’t really know the enjoyment level players are experiencing can we .
As I’ve said before the increased number of players is for different reasons than these gameplay changes. 
 

Everything I’m saying is just so obvious 

1 hour ago, fornicator99 said:

 

Was fun watching this  for a while but this just burns my eyes. It's obvious that no reg likes it but how do you know about what recs think?  I've seen mentioned the notion of "fun". They only people for which the games need to be fun are the recs and they seem to like it otherwise they wouldn't continue to lose money. You just keep repeating the obvious complaints of a reg and basically want NL200 but with banzai spaz fish that get it in with top pair 200 bb deep. I get it, I would love it too, it was fun while it lasted, but games change and everyone needs to adapt. my 2c
@Stubbe-Unibet Would it be possible to share some insight about how the game changed? Are there regs that do better, are recs losing slower, are there more new players than before, etc?

I honestly hand on heart can say every reason I give is for the enjoyment of the game and not to just set up the game for maximum chance of screwing a fish.

Im barely even a reg I just play a long session every two weeks or so.

1 minute ago, Stubbe-Unibet said:

Please,please read the previous thread. I for instance said at least 5 times that I'm not against the option to move stack to a new table, when table breaks. Still, you keep on repeating the same thing. I agree with you on some of your thoughts, as I've already made clear on multiple occasions but you've chosen to ignore so your rant can continue. 

What I don't agree with is statements like the above on anonymity and how you continue to state your own opinion as if it's a fact that applies to the entire customer base. It's totally fair that you prefer to know the identity of the other players - any good player would - but it doesn't mean it's the case for the majority of players. Statements like "nobody likes it" are just silly. 

I've not got this blind love for the current mechanics, that you seem to think I do. I've already made this clear on multiple occasions. Fact is just that players are enjoying the games more and the games are doing better. This is speaking about Banzai as a whole and based on retention data etc. (obviously excluding promo impact)

Yeah you can have me saying ‘no one likes it’ is silly. I would say from experience that it’s likely that most people don’t like it though.

But I’m gunna for sure have you saying that ‘players are enjoying the game more’ is silly. 
Even if there is more players I’d be shocked it this was true. And seems another guess from you.

I only repeat my reasons (for the decline of the game) as a reply whenever you say the game has improved.

You talk so much crap it’s unreal.

Why don’t you understand this feedback I is so solid and obvious.

I don’t just want the games 6 handed because I like playing with more players, I just like the games breaking less. This is even more important now with the resetting of stacks. 
 

The 2 minute sit out time is so bad. 
You have to stare at the screen for hours straight and can’t get a tea or go toilet or answer the door.

It means stacks get reset more often and harder to build a good game. 
 

And yes I do want to know who I’m playing against I don’t deny it. I want to remember how someone has been playing and try to play against them, also remember what they have seen of me (have they seen big bluffs from me etc). That’s the fun of poker, and it’s gone, when someone gets kicked and rejoins, they’re a different name, when game breaks they’re a different name, when they play 2 tables there a different name. Nobody likes it.

let’s leave the rake increase behind because I guess I semi accept it.

How do you have any idea what impact banzai having its own section has? That’s just a complete guess from you.

This entire thread it’s just like you’re defending it blindly.

I don’t want it to be like hostile, I just cannot see how you don’t see this.

1 hour ago, Livertool said:

Like said, i am staying out of this.

I think they appreciate the feedback since they answered you lots but you don't seem to accept other views which in this case is more than legit with data they have. Some like mother some daughter, some incognito play and some not.

What stake do you play? 
Im not sure about B1 and B5 but B20 the game has been killed, the fun of the game has definitely decreased a lot due to the like the 4-5 reasons I regularly give.

There are still some great games that get deep but the changes just get in the way of the good games.

The games breaking more regularly due to 5 handed, forced resetting stack , intentional ratholing, no alias, and only getting a 2 minute break is bad as well, people go to the toilet and get kicked out.

On my banzai I don’t even have the timer anymore to tell me how long of the break I have left. 
There’s probably been so many times people have been battling and tried to go toilet or answer the door and get kicked out the game.

I know it’s a fun 10bb spin game, but the game isn’t as fun when people are so often on 10 or 20bbs, it makes it just a nash chart shove game.

This is what happens a lot more when the games break, people get kicked out, people rathole, 

Games are good when there’s variety of stacks from 10bb-80bb

plus the rake has increased, which I guess I have to accept as other sites are raking the same, this one I can’t really complain, it’s like inflation, it is what it is.

18 hours ago, Livertool said:

 

 

I am staying out of this overall but just to be clear about what you are saying, none of their data (which is telling them that they have made right decisions) means nothing and they should rather rely on you and two of your friends? Am i 

Mate it’s because there are other reasons more people are playing.

The game is being marketed better.

And it now has its completely unique section on unibet to its way easier for players to find.

So it’s bound to have more players playing.

They shouldn’t rely on us 3 but we are valuable feedback.

On 9/18/2023 at 5:42 PM, Stubbe-Unibet said:

Bonuses are added again next Monday 🙂 Happy to hear you like the development!

Yeah the design and the new theme is nice, and the music and the arenas, it’s just the gameplay that has been worsened 

18 hours ago, Stubbe-Unibet said:

We're going around in circles, so I'll have to refer to my previous replies in the other thread where you said the same things 🙂

How do you know though? Do you play 6 hour sessions on banzai? 
you can only know if it’s better or worse by either being a regular player of long sessions or by surveying loads of players that played a lot both this year and last year.

Ive told you already the metrics don’t mean anything.

You aren’t listening to the feedback of a high volume B20 player last year (as well as two of my friends who also we’re high volume). 
I think cos you were involved in the changes you just blindly defend it to the hills.

28 minutes ago, Stubbe-Unibet said:

@Tom Siddle you can pretty much pick any metric and it'll look like that. Hands played, players playing, rake, hands per player etc. Etc.

The hands played, rake and players playing doesn’t really mean anything. Banzai having its own header section makes a big difference to that. 
 

Im surprised hands played per player is more, cos games break quicker and people find it harder to build bigger stacks. It’s hard to know exactly why. 
 

Hand on heart I have other friends who played this game and we are all fully in agreement that the game got much worse.

I don’t understand how you can’t see this.

The removal of alias takes away the enjoyment of battling a player throughout the day, as their name keeps changing. 
You need to bring back the alias.

5 handed is worse, the inability to keep stack when game breaks is worse. 
The fact that opponents are resetting stacks is boring as well.

On 9/16/2023 at 7:27 PM, Stubbe-Unibet said:

@Tom Siddle, appreciate the feedback! 🙂

As we've already discussed most of this upon Banzai 2.0 launch, I don't see any point going into all that again. All I can say is that there's literally not a single metric supporting "Banzai was made worse". Below a graph showing one of the key metrics and they're all looking very similar.

Is "Banzai 2.0" perfect? No, there're improvements to be made, but objectively speaking there's nothing supporting that it's "worse this year". On the contrary, it's so, so much better. 

What is that graph? Is that amount of players playing?

I played banzai a few times recently 

(After I stopped playing at the start of the year due to all the changes making the game much worse)

I played mostly 3 handed, the games are always so short these days compared to when they always used to be 6 handed.

(That’s down to a few different reasons)

I then built my stack, the other two players left and had to rejoin a game with only the initial buy in. (Super frustrating)

Banzai is just so so so much worse than it was last year.

It was even enjoyable battling against people throughout the day in which you knew their name, and the competitive element of going back and forth against the same players. That’s what competition is all about. Now you don’t even know who’s who cos every time someone changes table their name changes.

I could go on with how many things have made banzai worse this year, could list 10 things.

The rake increase was obviously dissapointing but I understand why you did it.

Thanks.

Tom

3 hours ago, fornicator99 said:

Had a look at the results since the beginning of Banzai 2.0: in aprox 50k hands  the win rate is about the same as before so in my case the increase in rake is offset by more recs or  rungood. Not complaining either way. We'll see this month if it's confirmed.

That means nothing really it’s a few weeks you need like a year worth of play for a good sample banzai is incredibly high variance.

anyone can win a bundle in a few weeks

1 minute ago, Stubbe-Unibet said:

Yes, indeed looking forward to that big fat juicy bonus I'll be getting next year 🤑 🤑 💰 💰

Still waiting for all your friends - who agree with you - to join this thread 😉 

NB I'm not sure you're deliberately ignoring it, but I've mentioned multiple times that we are looking into changing some of the mechanics.

I don’t mean anything personal ever of course I wish you all the juicy bonus you can get 🤣

I just say what I think and sometimes comes across a bit personal

They are kind of unconfrontational and don’t really wanna get involved  

1 minute ago, Stubbe-Unibet said:

You're saying so much nonsense that I'm beginning to think you're trolling 😅

No I’m saying that all the games changes came at the same time banzai has its own section in the header, so whoever has made these poor game changes is probably getting credit for increased traffic on the unibet poker team right lool

When it is so clearly just because banzai is in the header 

Just now, Stubbe-Unibet said:

Banzai traffic 🙂

Genius to have a banzai header and make it look like the game changes have increased the traffic 

I think I’ll leave it now, could go back and forth for a long time. Think everyone knows my opinion lool 

Good luck to everyone playing it and sorry for all the complaints 

2 hours ago, Groggy said:

So the game has gone from being almost unbeatable with barely existing edges due to the rake increase (as stated in your earlier posts) to me defending increased rake because the games are now more beatable given the more favorable rec- reg ratio? I'm sure @Stubbe-Unibetwill be thrilled about your change of heart.

It is because as you say the game self regulates, because a lot of decent players won’t win they’ll leave meaning they’ll be a new set of players that win. If all the same good regs stayed with new rake and shorter stacked games very few regs would win. Now the top players remaining will still win some and the recs will now of course lose more. 
 

anyway that’s not that important my main points are on the quality of the game. And that it has reduced due to games breaking quick, short handed, shorter stacked games, the game was absolutely fine. Only two moves they had to make was unibet banzai header and rake for higher revenue.

12 minutes ago, Groggy said:

Why would a business invest into and promote a game variant that is going to make them less money than other formats? It is only logical it came with a rake increase.

You have made it very clear you prefer deep stacked poker. There's a wonderful format called 'cash game' that you might enjoy. Banzai has literally been created to appeal to a different demographic who prefer the shallow fast paced game.

Now you’re just saying things with no meaning. ‘Wonderful format called cash game poker’. I like banzai, and I can still have the opinion that a deeper banzai game with a mix of more 10/20/30/40/50-100 stacks is a much more enjoyable game, now it is much more common that the games are 10-20bb deep. There are still deep banzai games of course there is but on average the game has been made much shorter and I am very confident that the average player does not want this nor do they want the regularity that the games break due to 5 handed and the shorter games. 
 

You might be defending it because more regs are out due to rake and more fish are in, you are thinking of yourself but I am thinking about the experience of the game and everyone I know that plays it says it is now a much poorer experience, which it is. 

19 hours ago, Stubbe-Unibet said:

In a parallel universe: new Banzai is dead at higher stakes. Never any decent sized stacks at the table.

Our reality:

 

 

Does this really prove anything? Posting just 3 stacks at one moment in time when the game runs all week lol.

on average the stacks are just way lower as a result of game changes and more recs, I’ve accepted it really you can’t complain for too long 🤣 

2 hours ago, Groggy said:

@Tom Siddle There are players on sky poker who make a living playing 10bb games with double the rake and most of those games play shallow. Games are mostly self regulating anyway. 20 banzai on here was tougher on average than 40 on sky because rake was 1% here Vs 5%. 

But regardless of what is capable to win why would you want to make a game that everyone enjoys more shorter stacked and shorter handed.
You could say people are enjoying the game more because the traffic is up, but the traffic is just up a lot because having banzai in the unibet poker header makes a massive difference.

The game is definitely a poorer experience for both reg and Rec now that games break quick and games are shorter stacked. 

If the game was kept the same and the rake went up I would have accepted it, and the traffic would be up a lot anyway due to banzai being out on header, so games still would have been better 
 

37 minutes ago, GR1ZZL3R said:

   I'm a rec that plays a little poker but I've played more Banzai over the last 6 days than any poker the rest of the month. It may be because I'm slightly winning so far, very small sample size, but I actually don't see the problems you're referring to. 

   This seemed a good time to start, only two players and small stacks.

 

   One of the players made Sensei after about 10 mins, but left fairly soon after, the table stayed open for the two and a half hours I was on it, though when I was up to 40 bb a sit out left me playing HU. He left but luckily I was only sat with the sit out for a few seconds and someone else joined.  The whole time new players kept joining as others left, no different from when I've played Banzai before, and most of the time the stacks were varied between 10 and 60-70, the last 10 or 15 mins one large stack, one medium, me, and 2 or 3 minimum to low. I'm enjoying playing (maybe whilst I'm winning) as this format gives me a definite target to aim at, either reaching black belt, Sensei or both, and I have no idea how long it will take, a few minutes yesterday (Sensei) quite a bit longer today (black belt.)

   To me the whole point of being short stacked is to spin it up, action all the way, and from what I've seen so far once the bigger stacks are reached it's very little different from playing on a normal table. Many recs don't want to play very deep going by the number of short stacks you see on normal cash tables, so I think this is ideal. As has been said a few times, it's been developed with mobile, recs and casino customers in mind, give it a fair chance.

   I'm enjoying the game far more. 

What stakes banzai are you playing? If it’s B1 then I don’t think there any issues and the game is better. People shell infinite buy ins on B1 so games don’t break and people spin up stacks a lot more and people don’t give a damn about rake 

5 hours ago, fornicator99 said:

Some thoughts after playing a fair amount:

-  small sample of course but seems games are good, still beatable, despite me being on the wrong side of the flips . Didn't do the math, I'll do it at the end of the month, but I feel it's at least as good as before.

- yeah, you don't see the 400-600bb stacks anymore but personally, I don't really care as long as there are more recs and as long as recs like the new dynamic

- Carrying your stack between tables will only help regs, I'm not complaining if you do it but that's a fact

- anonymous tables  - seems a good idea for recs, you might want to consider it for other games too. All notes I had are useless now so good move.

- bottom line, it's all coming together beautifully, with some tweaks mentioned here an there  it'll be perfect.

What is coming together beautifully?

The games break quicker, the rake is higher and the tables are much shorter stacked. It’s just that now all the avatars are wearing headbands.

The increase traffic is from better exposure it doesn’t mean the players are enjoying the game more

And just curious what is logic for allowing 4 now tables over 2, I guess it’s good for me and good for regs but why would you want more regs at more tables, no rec plays over 2 tables so big negative for recs