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WuDu Rank 21
Rank 21

@Patric-Unibet wrote:

@WuDu,

just fyi, numbers of running 50's since the start of the year: 24, 23, 21, 21, 16, 16, 18, 21, 21

So yes, there are overlays but numbers are not bad. The finals are going quite well and we are still making some changes, so more tickets from the low buy in tiers come in.

 


@Patric-Unibet. Thanks for taking the time listing up the players in the Uo50s. However your numbers only tell half of the story: Out of the 9 games, only twice did you beat GTD+rake. 4 times you didn't lose money and 3 times you lost big league. Also, if @XY was correct, the 18 player game was a 6 tix tournament (you conveniently left that one out), thus over the 9 games, you still lost a nice amount of money (too lazy to exactly calculate now). Now if that were a new tournament in the schedule, those numbers wouldn't be bad, however the UO50s have been established for a long time. So you might compare these ### to the ### in September or October 2018, back then 30+ players were normal. I know, I played then myself. So yeah, I doubt things are going in the right direction if you butchered your cash cow after mentioning the importance of keeping the costs for the whole series in check.

The finals on Sunday are going well (53 guys this Sunday), but like I mentioned before: a) Because the game on Wednesday is not guaranteed to run anymore---->a few guys will move to Sundays then. And b) you still give out guaranteed tickets at the UO50 level, which are now being subsidized by you. Of course, you'll hit the Sunday guarantee if you distribute 40 or more UO250 tickets per week, that's simple math. Your loss occures at the UO50 level. 

Positive changes at the lower levels are always great but could also have been made with ticket exchanges still being allowed. The main problem still exists: By eliminating ticket hoarding, you lost a big chunk of your UO player base.

This is as if the president of Real Madrid would be defending his off-season decisions this year by stating: " Everything is fine, a new coach needs his time, we're winning from time to time and I'm sure the Europa League qualification is not in doubt." 

 

 

We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
God Emperor Trump
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Unibet Poker Expert Patric-Unibet
Unibet Poker Expert

@WuDu You are right, that we are overall losing in those but the overall trend in costs has gone down, if you consider all UO qualifiers (and not just the 50's).

Cutting the costs with these changes is in my opinion a step into the right direction and by not offering exchanges, planning is just simply so much easier, so cutting costs was not the only reason for the changes.

Either way, we can continue discussing this back and forth, I can say whatever I want, you will disagree with the changes and you have your reasons for it.

We are trying our best to keep our customers satisfied (that is why I am here) but we cannot forgot that we are a business, so sometimes we need to find the right balance.

I think overall, we can agree, that we give quite a lot back to the players and I believe that if we can improve some of the major software related issues, we have a chance to grow further and make the customer experience better and better too.

Either way, I appreciate your contribution, let's just agree to disagree in that particular regard Smile

Thanks

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XY Rank 19
Rank 19

@WuDu yes,100% positive because I was one of them,sadly without positive outome. Teardrop

Like you said @Patric-Unibet,give it some time because those numbers are "false".Yes,numbers are around that but there were holidays and new rule came in november therefore I am sure that a nice bunch of players was forced to use their tickets,rather than planing to use them.Same will happen in February and March when "last minute" exchanged tickets will be forced to be used,soo I am sure that numbers will grow even more.Players like WuDu and jonny2192 that have a nice collections.
But what about after that???

For sure ticket exchanger is a BIG LOST and aftermath will be visible later,for sure.

Think that problem about UO qualifiers lay somewhere else...

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WuDu Rank 21
Rank 21

@Patric-Unibet wrote:

@WuDu You are right, that we are overall losing in those but the overall trend in costs has gone down, if you consider all UO qualifiers (and not just the 50's).

Cutting the costs with these changes is in my opinion a step into the right direction and by not offering exchanges, planning is just simply so much easier, so cutting costs was not the only reason for the changes.



 

"Trend" being the highly subjective keyword here. How are automated exchange tournaments costing Unibet anything? Nobody says the head of poker has to do them himself...What did your tournament manager plan differently? The GTDs are still the same...

I just find it funny, that you stressed the business and cost aspect first (which is totally OK with me) and now that I have debunked a huge part of it (let's be honest, if the UO50s are not hitting their GTDs, the UO10s and UO2s cannot be booming either), it's more about convenience for the Unibet employees?

Like @XY mentioned, I also believe some players, like myself, still have tickets left, so there could even be an upswing in participation once the tournament in Wallachia is out of the way or towards the end of April. But those players will probably be gone once their tickets are all used up. Strictly from a player's perspective, I feel like I have made the absolute right decision to stop playing 10 weeks ago.

 

 

We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
God Emperor Trump
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psrquack Rank 25
Rank 25

I think the main problem was the uncalculated behaviour of the players, nobody could expect which part of the qualifiers will be more popular and where could Unibet change the GTD or add more qualiifers. If you add this with the forced reduce of the costs I understand why the employees stressed about that, but as a player I can't accept the changes.

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Unibet Poker Expert Patric-Unibet
Unibet Poker Expert

What @psrquack says played a big big role. Without ticket exchanges planning is a lot easier and calculations and prognoses can easier be done by our tournament manager.

With the ticket exchangers these were unpredictable, some weeks we would have lots of players, others little, now there is a bit more balance.

With more stability, we can easier adapt and make some little changes here, some little changes there to improve the qualifier system.

There are a lot of different factors that played a role in that decision, not all are understandable from a players point of view and I can understand the disappointment of players that played those mainly, yet I'm convinced that it was the right step and I highly doubt that it will be taken back.

Thanks

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jerry Rank 19
Rank 19

@Patric-Unibet wrote:

With the ticket exchangers these were unpredictable, some weeks we would have lots of players, others little, now there is a bit more balance.


But this would be easily resolved with lower GTDs. Some overlays maybe for 1-2e to get people started/hooked but for the rest 2tickets gtd and go. Make ticket hoarders pay for every ticket. I just dont get it.

the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist
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WuDu Rank 21
Rank 21

@Patric-Unibet wrote:

What @psrquack says played a big big role. Without ticket exchanges planning is a lot easier and calculations and prognoses can easier be done by our tournament manager.

With the ticket exchangers these were unpredictable, some weeks we would have lots of players, others little, now there is a bit more balance.



 

I can already imagine the Unibet team meeting regarding this topic:

"Guys, we have a problem, sometimes for the UO50s, 40 players are showing up and the next day only 25 guys register. OMG, OMG, what can we do about that?"

"Easy bro, it's all due to ticket hoarding, eliminate that and the variance will go down."

3 months later

"Did the variance go down?"

"Absolutely, now we're moving between 16-21 players! The trend is positive. Mission accomplished!"

So basically, you're telling me that you're scared of the variance and you want to combat overlay in certain areas. Thus exchanges were eliminated, which basically led to massive overlays in the most important daily UO qualifier?

If I remember correctly, the UO50 6 tix game on Sunday is the only non-turbo qualifier where you went away from the 4 tix GTD scheme for the 50s. When I played it (I usually don't play at that time, so my sample size is small in that regard), it was easily crushing the GTD. This Sunday, only 18 guys showed up.

 

We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
God Emperor Trump
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jonny2192 Rank 23
Rank 23

@WuDu

I think your being a bit unfair, The variance has definetly evened out for me.

Instead of playing 80-100% of uo1,2,4,10s every week I now play 0%

Same with 1,4,25s UK tour from 80-100% every week week I know play 0%

As you can see from the numbers my variance was 20% before now its 0%.

Seriously I think no ticket exchanges has a bigger effect than what can be seen just by looking at the players in each sat.
Some of the biggest supporters on facebook,twitter,twitch etc were people who shouted the praises of Unibet because of the ticket exchanges and now I see less and less of people saying positive things.

The exchanges made people forgive some of the horrendous bugs that have not been fixed for years. Before I would post great site, unique feature with ticket exchanges lets you make a small deposit see if the site is for you but the software can be a bit buggy sometimes now I dont know anything that would make me recomend the poker.

I really dont understand why you didnt just re-structure the way tickets work and change the exchanger games a bit(exchanger games were my idea btw) and found a middle ground.

Dont need a reply because its obvious the decision is made and being stuck too no matter what.

 

You can exchange UO tickets again all is unicorns and rainbows in Unibet land.
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psrquack Rank 25
Rank 25

Or:

-Guys, numbers aren't our friends. I'm fed up with those esport guys, most of them wants us to sign their buddy too. They cost us too much. Fire some of them, ambassadors are enough. Oh, ambassadors, let walk away one or two of them too. So, we need to reduce the costs. How big is our loss at GTD qualifiers?

-We don't know.

-C'mon man, you gambled all the dates or what?

-Due to the ticket exchange system there is too much variance. We can't expect the number of players.

-Listen, the end of the quarter is near, i need to present a plan towards to Kindred, and they want to see the sinking loss when they checking the graphs.

-OK Boss, we can do it, but that will occur the loss of the players too.

-Are you sure the deficit will decrease?

-Yep, but many of the players will moan and some of them will leave us, but we will keep the costs in hand.

-Do it.

3 months later

-Most of the players feel it was a harsh decision, but costs are lower now. All we need to figure out how could it turn to profit.

-What about to make an end of all guarantees?

 

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