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Ticket Exchange is ending 4th November


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@Stubbe-Unibet wrote:

First of all I just want to say we really do appreciate all the feedback in this thread, and we have been listening - at least to some of you  ;)

Deciding to remove the exchangers was not an easy decision, and we're now in a situation where we're considering bringing them back, but we can't bring them back in the same format as last year. 

We've been discussing the setup with a group of members, and if we are to bring the exchangers back, it'll be with a setup like this:

  • Daily exchangers instead of weekly
  • No exchangers for € 250 tickets
  • If you’ve got more than x tickets, you’re not allowed to exchange further ticket to that level:
    1. Once you have 20 tickets at € 2 and € 1 level (20 tickets for each level), you’re not allowed to exchange further tickets to this level
    2. Once you have 10 tickets at € 10 and € 4 level (10 tickets for each level), you’re not allowed to exchange further tickets to this level – so once you’ve got 10 €10 tickets and win a € 50 ticket, you’ll be forced to play the € 50 ticket (unless you lose more € 10 tickets so you’ve got less than 10 again)
  • Possibly a slightly shorter expiry date on € 50 tickets 

 

Would love to hear your feedback on the above. I personally think it's a good compromise where we don't end up with people hoarding a hundred tickets at one level, but at the same time we offer a much safer way to play the satellites with a very limited initial bankroll - we acknowledge that by removing the exchangers, we did make it significantly less interesting to try to qualify for a small group of customers, a group of customers we'd love to see at Unibet Open. The exchangers have their advantages and disadvantages, and it's not as black or white as it's often been made out to be in this thread.

For all the other off-topic discussions above, I'm happy to take those, but it should be in another thread :)


Given the feedback in the thread, these are the rules I'd go with, if we were to implement it today:

  • Exchangers an opt-in service (can request access by email or in a dedicated thread)
  • Daily exchangers instead of weekly
  • No exchangers for € 250 tickets
  • If you’ve got more than x tickets, you’re not allowed to exchange further ticket to that level:
    1. Once you have 20 tickets at € 2 and € 1 level (20 tickets for each level), you’re not allowed to exchange further tickets to this level
    2. Once you have 20 tickets at € 10 and € 4 level (20 tickets for each level), you’re not allowed to exchange further tickets to this level – so once you’ve got 20 €10 tickets and win a € 50 ticket, you’ll be forced to play the € 50 ticket (unless you lose more € 10 tickets so you’ve got less than 20 again)
  • You're not allowed to have more than 20 (haven't decided on the exact cap for this one) €50 tickets, if you're making use of the exchangers
  • Possibly a slightly shorter expiry date on € 50 tickets 
  • You'll be removed from the eligible list, if you're found to breach the T&C (we'll of course be reasonable here)

 

@jerry@FeelsBadMan@FreedoM@Merenitsu  thoughts?

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Love the Daily exchanger, don't really care too much about the 20 ticket cap so long the satellites are a freezout and not a re-entry or re-buy. Pretty sure this will fix the not enough players to start issue. Please implement this in the UK Tour also. Thank You.
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@FreedoM wrote:

Love the Daily exchanger, don't really care too much about the 20 ticket cap so long the satellites are a freezout and not a re-entry or re-buy. Pretty sure this will fix the not enough players to start issue. Please implement this in the UK Tour also. Thank You.


We're considering making the satellites (not the finals) re-entry or re-buy. What's your issue with it being re-entry? I understand why you wouldn't want them to become addon.

Shouldn't be a problem with the UK tour, but will need to discuss it with the team :)

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Good to see the exchanges come back with sensible restrictions.  What has put me off in the past from the satellites has been the opportunity to multi buy in (I prefer a level playing field) and to an extent, the late registrations which are depressing as you try to play properly on a bubble, turn down opportunities to win chips, win a seat only for that not to happen as someone jumps in just as you knock the last person out.  That puts me off playing tbh.

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@Stubbe-Unibet Im more than happy with the setup, please implement this ASAP. Will there be exchangers for 25e (make it simply 6x4e)? One reentry is fine, more than one is a glorified rebuy 😏. Also somehow im not a fan of multientry, whenever i buyin for 2 (or 3 in 1e) stacks i feel like im cheating the rest of guys :scared:

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@jerry wrote:

@Stubbe-Unibet Im more than happy with the setup, please implement this ASAP. Will there be exchangers for 25e (make it simply 6x4e)? One reentry is fine, more than one is a glorified rebuy 😏. Also somehow im not a fan of multientry, whenever i buyin for 2 (or 3 in 1e) stacks i feel like im cheating the rest of guys :scared:


Good to hear :) 

I'm not sure about the € 25 exchangers. Don't know if anyone will accept the loss of € 1, and I'm not sure we can pay two different tickets (6*4+1*1). Looking into it :)

Will need to discuss it all with the team and find some time to set it up. Aiming to go live with it Friday next week, depending on the feedback on here and how busy everyone is :)

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@Stubbe-Unibet Just make it in the description that rake for 25e exchanger is 1e and be done with it. I dont think that ANYONE will have problem with this. No one is forced to use it. Was counting at sooner launch, but with UOS i think there is other work for stuff. That said im happy to hear it will begin. 👍

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@Stubbe-Unibet wrote:



You certainly have some valid points here, but it's all with a very conservative approach in mind, which I don't think is very applicable when speaking about the exchangers as a whole. Yes, the cap might not work, if the player stop playing the € 2 tournaments and only play € 10, but would you really stop playing the € 2 tournaments, if you're at the € 10 level? Guess some additional rules might be needed then :)

Let's say we will need limitations for the previously mentioned reasons, what would you suggest?


@WuDu wrote:


The other big problem however is that due to your "reform proposal", you keep winning players in the UO10 and maybe even in the UO2 pool, making the games tougher for the casuals you want to protect. As I mentioned before, for winning hoarders, these two levels are now the "motor" for any satellite success. Is that really what you had in mind?


This is always going to be the issue with the exchangers, no matter how we implement them, and it is the main reason they were removed. The impact will obviously depend on the actual implementation. In terms of this aspect, we should never have exchangers, but in a way they're a necessary evil that does have it benefits :)


 

@Stubbe-Unibet  I think you still haven't understood a huge part of your player base in these games! You don't want people taking an occasional shot at the 50s every blue moon, you want guys playing these games on a regular basis (daily or a few times per week). This is not an issue of "risk taking" it's an issue of being funded properly. I thought "planning" and fluctuating numbers of players have been an issue before? Building a system on the fundament of "shot-taking" only emphasizes this issue even further...

Let's assume you have an ultra risk-taker playing with a bankroll of 10 UO10s with any excess tickets going straight into shot-taking. Like I said before, in order to accumulate one Uo50 ticket to take a shot and having a 10 % ROI, this player would have to play 50 UO10s to do so. If he's playing at a high volume, this takes roughly 2 weeks. 

You can be as risky as you'd like to be, but these tickets don't grow on trees, so just from a mathematical standpoint, the UO50s are not going to grow. If your idea works, you'll get some additional liquidity and action at the UO10 and UO2 level, however this added liquidity will then mostly only move into tickets being hoarded by the winning players at these lower levels. There won't be much spillover into the higher levels. Of course, playing with a 10 ticket bankroll will lead to bankruptcy rather sooner than later.

If you want to get more action at the UO50s, you simply have to allow the UO250s to being exchanged as well. In addition to that, if you want to protect the casuals at the lower levels, you have to restrict the exchanges for certain people. One idea could be to only allow one single type of exchange per month. E.g. in the month of May a player has to decide whether he wants to exchange 10s---->2s or 50s----->10s or (hypothetically) 250s----->50s. You have to pick one type for the duration of the whole month. Winning players would then always pick the biggest exchangers, thus casuals at the lower levels would be protected. Of course, if you want to buy in with cash you can do so all the time... 

 

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We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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@WuDu, "huge part of your player base" is probably exaggeration of the year. I estimate we will get +80 % of the ticket exchange players back (if they're still active and haven't churned for other reasons). Anyway, as you've probably seen, we've already posted the solution here: https://www.unibetcommunity.com/t5/Unibet-Open-UK-Tour/Unibet-Open-Ticket-Exchange-Policy-2019/m-p/238354

We'll of course monitor the situation and make changes if need be :)

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@Stubbe-Unibet wrote:

@WuDu, "huge part of your player base" is probably exaggeration of the year. I estimate we will get +80 % of the ticket exchange players back (if they're still active and haven't churned for other reasons). Anyway, as you've probably seen, we've already posted the solution here: https://www.unibetcommunity.com/t5/Unibet-Open-UK-Tour/Unibet-Open-Ticket-Exchange-Policy-2019/m-p/238354

We'll of course monitor the situation and make changes if need be :)


 

Well, it depends on who'll show up to play again! Nothing against the players happily signing up to exchange to Uo2s and UO10s, good for them, but the games where you lost the most where the UO50s. That's where the money's at for you guys! At least there's some newfound enthusiasm about the UO here on the community...

Having said that, you make the rules and I plan accordingly, such a pity that you force me to take a break again for the next few months. How that's helping the liquidity, only you know...

We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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  • 4 weeks later...

@WuDu wrote:



Well, it depends on who'll show up to play again! Nothing against the players happily signing up to exchange to Uo2s and UO10s, good for them, but the games where you lost the most where the UO50s. That's where the money's at for you guys! At least there's some newfound enthusiasm about the UO here on the community...

Having said that, you make the rules and I plan accordingly, such a pity that you force me to take a break again for the next few months. How that's helping the liquidity, only you know...


 

open1.PNG.3fb544548a274d47ccbdfff9cae24203.PNG

 

open2.png.27b9a29032109910f7e3f03ed54e439f.png

 

If only there was a way to increase the participation at the UO50s...

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We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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  • 2 weeks later...

@WuDu wrote:


open1.PNG.16c0f0640cebf2027a25a3212beb0c3e.PNG

 

open2.png.bfd11cd3eb5ec1b346eefa05c1825daa.png

 

If only there was a way to increase the participation at the UO50s...


26.05.2019

15:05h 4Tix GTD (15players)

16:05h 4Tix GTD (8players)

17:05h 4Tix GTD (13players)

19:05h 6Tix GTD (22players)

17:30h 25€to250€ (9players)

18:05h -II- cancelled

21:05h -II- cancelled

 

Final Malta (61players)

@WuDu 

Bravo Tv I Give Up GIF by Slice

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UO265.PNG.f6266155c3b3394c6e0981859d494151.PNG

 

The 50-->10 exchangers are going so-so as well.

61 playing the final is great, however the week before it was 73 or so. I get the feeling a lot of players want the summer vacation in Malta and don't really like the London or Paris destination. But this is just an idea...

 

We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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@WuDu wrote:

 

UO265.PNG.d27f77637c874dbf631ef50b4a790a9a.PNG

 

The 50-->10 exchangers are going so-so as well.

61 playing the final is great, however the week before it was 73 or so. I get the feeling a lot of players want the summer vacation in Malta and don't really like the London or Paris destination. But this is just an idea...

 


people need to reach that 50€ UO ticket in order to exchange it... 

I monitored,and played a few,UO qualifiers last week.

Surprise,surprise!

0,20€-80% of the tournaments cancelled

0,35€-80% of the tournaments cancelled.Currently I don't even see them in the lobby. Confused?!

1€ to 4€ (2tix) - barely reaches min.requirements (3players)

1€ to 10€ (3tix) are fine.Runs regularly.

2€ to 10€ (3and6tix) are also fine,but here and there there is exception.

4€ to 25€ (2tix) are fine.

10€ to 50€ (2and4tix) were on 50%. Only one 4tix GTD didnt start,but with a 2tix GTD,there is a problem.First two (12:25CET and 14:25CET) usually does not meet min.players.Late one,1AM,also.

So,problem here!

25€ to 250€ (1tix) regularly had 10-15players,but there is only one tournament per day. :Dissatisfied:

50€ to 250€ (2tix) regularly had 8-14players,but again only one tournament per day.

All in all really frustrative and repulsive situation.

Of course they will say,if they reply,it is due to UO London...but is it?

Malta is more attractive then London or Siania,IMO,but there is also due to extra expenses that bigger cities (London and Paris) have. 250€ extra is nothing but for food and subway ,or taxi. :Wink:

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Last week was one of the best weeks ever for the € 1, € 2 and € 4 tournaments - 2nd best week in terms of overlay :) We still haven't reached the point where people have accumulated tickets to move on to the € 50 level yet. As mentioned before, the positive impact on the lowest levels (that we offer exchanges to) and the negative impact on the higher levels is inevitable in the short term. In general, since we switched to Malta qualifiers, we've been doing quite well :) Thereby not said it's all perfect - you're for instance right that something should be done about the 0.20 tournaments - and @Leo-Unibet is constantly monitoring the situation. We are also discussing some major changes to the UO satellite tree.

 

So, a positive trend and good outlook, but we're not there yet (and never expected to be at this stage) :)

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Maybe lowering the gtd would do the trick? 10e on 19;25 with 2 tickets gtd many times doesnt start (i know i try to play them all the time) so maybe 1 ticket gtd? It would solve this one. Also with 50 the 4 is also a bit high, with 3 it would be much healthier. Overlay here and there is healthy, but too many of them could kill the satellite system and no one would want that.

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@XY wrote:

@WuDu wrote:

 

UO265.PNG.af3d70b21ab67a11625cc726cd3c62e4.PNG

 

The 50-->10 exchangers are going so-so as well.

61 playing the final is great, however the week before it was 73 or so. I get the feeling a lot of players want the summer vacation in Malta and don't really like the London or Paris destination. But this is just an idea...

 


people need to reach that 50€ UO ticket in order to exchange it... 

I monitored,and played a few,UO qualifiers last week.

Surprise,surprise!

0,20€-80% of the tournaments cancelled

0,35€-80% of the tournaments cancelled.Currently I don't even see them in the lobby. Confused?!

1€ to 4€ (2tix) - barely reaches min.requirements (3players)

1€ to 10€ (3tix) are fine.Runs regularly.

2€ to 10€ (3and6tix) are also fine,but here and there there is exception.

4€ to 25€ (2tix) are fine.

10€ to 50€ (2and4tix) were on 50%. Only one 4tix GTD didnt start,but with a 2tix GTD,there is a problem.First two (12:25CET and 14:25CET) usually does not meet min.players.Late one,1AM,also.

So,problem here!

25€ to 250€ (1tix) regularly had 10-15players,but there is only one tournament per day. :dissatisfied:

50€ to 250€ (2tix) regularly had 8-14players,but again only one tournament per day.

All in all really frustrative and repulsive situation.

Of course they will say,if they reply,it is due to UO London...but is it?

Malta is more attractive then London or Siania,IMO,but there is also due to extra expenses that bigger cities (London and Paris) have. 250€ extra is nothing but for food and subway ,or taxi. 😉


@XY  

0,20€-80% of the tournaments cancelled ........ not much to do here except changing 5 TIX to 3 TIX, which I done now, to see if that helps to start those qualifiers

25€ to 250€ (1tix) regularly had 10-15players,but there is only one tournament per day. :dissatisfied:

50€ to 250€ (2tix) regularly had 8-14players,but again only one tournament per day.

I definitely dont want to produce more than needed €250 tickets, that's wher ewe can see big costs

 

We constantly monitoring the UO qualifiers for optimizing.

 

Thanks for sharing your thoughts  

 

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@Stubbe-Unibet wrote:

Last week was one of the best weeks ever for the € 1, € 2 and € 4 tournaments - 2nd best week in terms of overlay :)

 

So, a positive trend and good outlook, but we're not there yet (and never expected to be at this stage) :)


I don't want to be the devil's advocat but are you sure is this trend independent from the daily UO ticket prized MTT centrolls ? I don't think so.

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@Stubbe-Unibet wrote:

Last week was one of the best weeks ever for the € 1, € 2 and € 4 tournaments - 2nd best week in terms of overlay :) We still haven't reached the point where people have accumulated tickets to move on to the € 50 level yet. As mentioned before, the positive impact on the lowest levels (that we offer exchanges to) and the negative impact on the higher levels is inevitable in the short term. In general, since we switched to Malta qualifiers, we've been doing quite well :) Thereby not said it's all perfect - you're for instance right that something should be done about the 0.20 tournaments - and @Leo-Unibet is constantly monitoring the situation. We are also discussing some major changes to the UO satellite tree.

 

So, a positive trend and good outlook, but we're not there yet (and never expected to be at this stage) :)


 

Now where have I heard that before? Please, don't make the same mistakes again...

Yes, the UO250s went well over the past two weeks, however the reasons for that have nothing to do with the satellite tree as

  1. the Uo50s are going OK when you offer 2 tix (same as before)
  2. the Uo50s are operating at a loss when you offer 4 or 6 tix (same as before).

The numbers just don't add up. Like I said before, I think London and especially Paris are not the most attractive stops which leads me to believe that a lot of players decided to try to qualify early for Malta (booking cheap flights). Thus the high numbers of players in the UO250s over the last two weeks. If that's true, the numbers at the UO250s will automatically go down and back to normal again (some players qualfied and don't have to play anymore, some players used up their last 250-tickets, some players are running out of cash for the UO...). The problems of players not joining the UO50s still pertains.

I said it before and I'll say it again: Sheer volume of getting players back means nothing, you need to make playing the UO50s more attractive by allowing the UO250s to be exchanged again. Currently you have 15 or 16 pages full of "Access please"-players and honestly, I doubt that all of them understand that "access please" isn't the same as "tikiet pliise" :laugh:

 

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We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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  • 3 weeks later...

Last week was the best for more than a year in terms of pretty much every single high-level metric. I'm not saying this is all due to the exchangers - definitely not, just as it wasn't all due to the lack of exchangers that things weren't going as well before - but the exchangers are doing really well. In terms of the exchangers impact, we're not quite where we were before we stopped them, but that's natural and expected; as I've mentioned before, it takes time before people will start taking shots at the higher levels. I'm repeating myself here, but feel it's necessary. Tickets are being accumulated, some have moved up and more will do so in the coming months :)

 

Yes, we do still have an overlay at the € 50 level, but it's about the same as we used to have at € 10.

 

@psrquack, the UO tickets from freerolls are a factor, of course, but it's only part of the reason, just as the exchangers, the destination etc. :)

 

We'll continue monitoring the situation, but as it looks right now, we won't make any changes in terms of exchangers :)

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