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Ticket Exchange is ending 4th November


penguin50

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You understand that 11% rake is pretty inconsequential in an overlaying tournament right? It could be 1% and the prizes would still be the same. I do agree that they should adjust their rake structure in a lof of tournaments and at some cash game stakes tho, it is kinda silly. And I actually think the higher rake ended up costing them money in stuff like the turbo uk tour satties the way they were set up 2 years ago cause it made them unattractive for someone looking to play something, oh well, more money for us at the time cause of overlays. Not sure where you got the 10% rake structure in cash games tho, probably from that same site that scammed you. 

The last statement I do not understand, sorry, like I don't understand what you mean. 

Later Edit: I also don't like the fact that stuff is shrinking and getting smaller GTD's, it's one of the things that puzzles me about the removal of exchangers, why not just let people continue churning their money in them.

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We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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Damn forum software playing tricks on me...

@Patric-Unibet wrote:

Hey guys,

As I mentioned in the other thread, we understand that this decision is not the most popular decision among players but it is a step we had to take eventually.

Unibet Open qualifiers have been cost heavy for us and even though I understand that everybody has their own perspective and opinion in that regard, we feel like this is the right decision.

I'm confident that the change will have a positive effect in the long run and hoarding tickets will no longer be an option.

We will obviously observe the process and if we feel according changes need to be made, we will discuss again.

.........

@Patric-Unibet wrote:

Hi,

we have our tournament manager taking care of the cost aspect and from what I understood overall we are going the right direction,

We will keep following the process over a longer period (2 months is not a long period) and if we see the need of changes to be made, we will act accordingly.

Thanks


......................

@Patric-Unibet wrote:

@WuDu You are right, that we are overall losing in those but the overall trend in costs has gone down, if you consider all UO qualifiers (and not just the 50's).

Thanks

..................

@Patric-Unibet wrote:

@WuDu,

just fyi, numbers of running 50's since the start of the year: 24, 23, 21, 21, 16, 16, 18, 21, 21

So yes, there are overlays but numbers are not bad. The finals are going quite well and we are still making some changes, so more tickets from the low buy in tiers come in.

Give it some time :)

--------------------------

 

991201679_unibetopen.thumb.PNG.6ac138848449790f6ed537bb3a4c2226.PNG

 

I'm shocked! Did you just reduce the daily UO50s from 4 Tix to 2 Tix? What happened? No announcement to your faithful player base? I almost registered under the assumption that this was a 4 Tix game. Not cool!

What about growing the series and making it easier for the recreationals to qualify?

Over the last 12 UO50s I played since March 24th, you guys accumulated 2800 Euro in total overlay in those games! :Geek: I wonder, who projected these developments from the get go?

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We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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@WuDu wrote:

I almost registered under the assumption that this was a 4 Tix game. Not cool!


The prizepool says 1000€, did the ticket prizes not reflect that? Why did you cut the image to not show that part :haha:

 As for tournaments shrinking, yeah it was expected since day 1, sad but expected.  And so, the prophecy has become a reality, apparently, I didn't actually see the tournament. But hey, as someone with tickets left over you surely took advantage of these massive overlays lately and racked up a bunch of final tickets, so yeah, bad long term, but a bit of a short term boost I guess 😏

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@FeelsBadMan wrote:


@WuDu wrote:

I almost registered under the assumption that this was a 4 Tix game. Not cool!


The prizepool says 1000€, did the ticket prizes not reflect that? Why did you cut the image to not show that part :haha:


 

That was my master-mind plan to publish Fake News and frame Unibet.

What's going on? So it it 2 Tix or 1000 Euro? Actually I don't know, I always sign up by clicking on my tickets.

@Caladrias 

Thanks for the info. Overlays are through the roof over the last few weeks.

  • Like 1
We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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Well, seems like I wasn't publishing Fake News after all and this time I took a bigger screenshot, just for you @FeelsBadMan  ♥️ :

1910875526_unibetopen.thumb.PNG.c6ac0317dcb1639501bccbb7ef802e4c.PNG

 

So, how long until the number of UO-Packages being distributed on Sundays is getting slashed as well? It's only a matter of time with 12-16 less UO250s being dished out per week...

Incredible how the Unibet guys in charge basically crippled their online qualifier system. Maybe the hoarders weren't so horrible after all? 

  • Like 3
We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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Hi @WuDu ,

as you might have noticed I stayed relatively quiet the past few months in this thread simply for the reason that you constantly critizing our decision wherever you could without coming up with an idea how things could improve and no, bringing back exchangers as they were a year ago is not a solution.

We are aware that the changes we made in the form we did them, were not ideal.

We are discussing internally and also with the UAT group what other changes could be done to improve the progress again and we need to find a solution that finds the right balance which is obviously not easy. We don't want hoarders and I personally don't think the purpose of a satellite tree should be to hoard a lot of tickets and keep exchanging them again and again, the purpose of offering qualifiers are that people actually play the final and have a chance to win a package for little money.

We will make changes in the Unibet Open qualifiers soon and we do take the feedback of players into consideration, as we always do but if you are not happy with a solution, constant bashing will not help the purpose, we are happy about feedback but your way of it has not been productive in this thread.

Thanks

 

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Hello @Patric-Unibet and thank you for taking the time to respond.


@Patric-Unibet wrote:

Hi @WuDu ,

as you might have noticed I stayed relatively quiet the past few months in this thread simply for the reason that you constantly critizing our decision wherever you could without coming up with an idea how things could improve and no, bringing back exchangers as they were a year ago is not a solution.


Since when are customers of the product, being equipped with limited information, responsible for solving the self-inflicted problems of the company they're playing at? Isn't that what the guys receiving a salary should be doing? I understand that you and the other fine people working and posting for Unibet had to toe the company line over the last few months. That's OK, but let's be honest: If you hadn't been wrong about each and every projection about the development of the qualifiers, you would have been giving us weekly updates on the progress of the new qualfier system.


@Patric-Unibet wrote:

We are aware that the changes we made in the form we did them, were not ideal.


Really? What happened to "we're going in the right direction" and "the overall trend of costs has gone down"?


@Patric-Unibet wrote:

We don't want hoarders and I personally don't think the purpose of a satellite tree should be to hoard a lot of tickets and keep exchanging them again and again, the purpose of offering qualifiers are that people actually play the final and have a chance to win a package for little money.


I understand that this is still the latest talking point from your part, giving casual players a chance to win a package for little money. However, with the changes you implemented, you're basically sabotaging your own goals, again:

First and foremost, a casual player is at a severe disadvantage if he decides to go through the satellite tree. If you're an average or slightly below average player deciding to buy into the UO2s and making it through to the live event, you need to invest over 3000 Euro for the 2000 Euro package on average. If you have 60 guys depositing 50 Euro each to play the qualifiers, starting with the UO2s, only 1 guy makes it through. And that's for average players. Wouldn't it be better to give the 59 other guys a little more bang for their buck? For truely casual players the situation looks even worse...

Second, without the hoarders you lost a huge part of your player base. That lead to the overlays at the 50s and a huge drop in player participation. You already reduced the weekly number of guaranteed packages from 6 to 5 by eliminating the Wednesday final. With the daily UO50 now only distributing 2 tickets instead of 4, it's only a matter of time until the Sunday Final has to be slashed as well. Especially in May, once no one has any hoarded tickets left for the Uo50s, the player base will shrink even further.

Let's just assume that once summer comes around, you can only guarantee 3 packages on Sunday. So within half a year, the weekly amount of distributed packages would have been slashed in half from 6 to 3. Since players are not allowed to postpone their packages, you have now the situation where regulars (players attending live events on a regular basis, that are able to redistribute some/all of their live winnings back into the satellite pool) now have less spots to qualify per week, meaning they have to stay in the UO250 pool for a longer time:

Let's say in 2018, players A,B,C,D,E and F all received a full package during the first week of the Unibet Open satellite cycle. These players don't play another UO250 until the next Unibet Open. Now with only 3 weekly packages guaranteed (hypothetically), players D, E and F still have to play another UO250, making the games at that level even tougher for casual players.


@Patric-Unibet wrote:

We will make changes in the Unibet Open qualifiers soon and we do take the feedback of players into consideration, as we always do but if you are not happy with a solution, constant bashing will not help the purpose, we are happy about feedback but your way of it has not been productive in this thread.

Thanks


Well, living in a fantasy world where trends are positive and the numbers are looking good and where growth magically happens because you really wish so hasn't been that productive either for all parties involved. In order to solve a problem, you need to realize that there's something to solve in the first place, don't you agree? And I pointed that one out! You're welcome. As a customer that's all I have to do. 😃

  • Like 4
We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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My humble opinion is Kindred's goal is to reduce costs at all cost. That's behind the terminated esport contracts and that's the main reason why the new management(don't forget, they have new tournament director, new haead of poker etc) want to reduce the number of online winable packages. I personally won't be surprized if the last step's guaranteed packages would be reduced to 1 maximum two. I thin k the similar situation is with the €2 step. You can win tickets for those tourneys via freerolls, but if you want to use the ticket the earliest qualifier is around 15.30 CET. I remember some times ago it was one qualifier around 12.00 CET too.

Btw Patric wrote that they don't want hoarders. Then what they think what type of players would be the mass of field: Recreacianal players would invest their money to the qualifiers again and again? I don't think that strategy would work without some "no life geek" who would play almost all the qualifiers.

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I don't see how having an exchange allows more of those 60 guys depositing 50 euros to win a package? For more than one of them to win a package then more money would need to be pumped into the tree from other players.

If we used the figure of 2k (exclude rake) and you had 1000 players with 2e each then yes in theory only one will win the 2k package at the top of the tree, but by allowing an exchange, instead of having 8 players with a 250e ticket battling for a package you have 7 of them exchanging it well before that level for a bunch more 2e/4e tickets? As a result the 250e sat doesn't run.

From someone that doesn't study the tree particularly closely it appears that we've gone from big overlays in the 250 sat (because people at that level were exchanging down to 50e) to the overlays being in the 50e (with the 250 sats meeting their guarantees). The issue is liquidity at medium-higher stakes. Unibet has built a site that does not cater for the higher stakes reg, other than those ridiculously high volume players, resulting in a site where there's a bunch of micro stakes players and the casual higher stakes player in general. The rake in SNGs are the higher stakes is too high and in the satellites you can only win one package plus you can't exchange it for another stop. You then have to factor in that the information release on the different UO stops is always months behind schedule, the whole thing is a shambles.

Why would I plan a schedule around UO London when 6 weeks before you haven't even got the schedule on your website?

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Most beautiful post I ever read. 👍

Wanted to post something similar,but have not.


@WuDu wrote:

Hello @Patric-Unibet and thank you for taking the time to respond.


@Patric-Unibet wrote:

Hi @WuDu ,

as you might have noticed I stayed relatively quiet the past few months in this thread simply for the reason that you constantly critizing our decision wherever you could without coming up with an idea how things could improve and no, bringing back exchangers as they were a year ago is not a solution.


Since when are customers of the product, being equipped with limited information, responsible for solving the self-inflicted problems of the company they're playing at? Isn't that what the guys receiving a salary should be doing? I understand that you and the other fine people working and posting for Unibet had to toe the company line over the last few months. That's OK, but let's be honest: If you hadn't been wrong about each and every projection about the development of the qualifiers, you would have been giving us weekly updates on the progress of the new qualfier system.

Exactly! I open the thread "poker plans for 2019" and only got reply,from Leo,that you dont have any.So, @Patric-Unibet  ,how can we contribute when we have no idea whats going on "behind the scene"?
You had reshuffles in some departments,but we didnt get any news.
Unibet split up with a bunch of ambassadors,and we didnt receive concrete answer why!? Who is next and what direction you are taking by this?
We had JoshBarkerPoker here with the news from the live events,but his gone.
There are some many questions,but doubt we will have proper answers.

 

Like I said,I am done with the fighs for a better Unibet therefore would no go into details and expending suggestions but...
DELETE LATE REG. IN UNIBET OPEN SATELLITES and REMOVE BANZAI-add S&G Unibet open!

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First of all I just want to say we really do appreciate all the feedback in this thread, and we have been listening - at least to some of you  ;)
Deciding to remove the exchangers was not an easy decision, and we're now in a situation where we're considering bringing them back, but we can't bring them back in the same format as last year. 

We've been discussing the setup with a group of members, and if we are to bring the exchangers back, it'll be with a setup like this:

  • Daily exchangers instead of weekly
  • No exchangers for € 250 tickets
  • If you’ve got more than x tickets, you’re not allowed to exchange further ticket to that level:
    1. Once you have 20 tickets at € 2 and € 1 level (20 tickets for each level), you’re not allowed to exchange further tickets to this level
    2. Once you have 10 tickets at € 10 and € 4 level (10 tickets for each level), you’re not allowed to exchange further tickets to this level – so once you’ve got 10 €10 tickets and win a € 50 ticket, you’ll be forced to play the € 50 ticket (unless you lose more € 10 tickets so you’ve got less than 10 again)
  • Possibly a slightly shorter expiry date on € 50 tickets 

 

Would love to hear your feedback on the above. I personally think it's a good compromise where we don't end up with people hoarding a hundred tickets at one level, but at the same time we offer a much safer way to play the satellites with a very limited initial bankroll - we acknowledge that by removing the exchangers, we did make it significantly less interesting to try to qualify for a small group of customers, a group of customers we'd love to see at Unibet Open. The exchangers have their advantages and disadvantages, and it's not as black or white as it's often been made out to be in this thread.

For all the other off-topic discussions above, I'm happy to take those, but it should be in another thread :)

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@Stubbe-Unibet 

  1. Once you have 20 tickets at € 2 and € 1 level (20 tickets for each level), you’re not allowed to exchange further tickets to this level
  2. Once you have 10 tickets at € 10 and € 4 level (10 tickets for each level), you’re not allowed to exchange further tickets to this level – so once you’ve got 10 €10 tickets and win a € 50 ticket, you’ll be forced to play the € 50 ticket (unless you lose more € 10 tickets so you’ve got less than 10 again)

 

if i will have more or less on every level?

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@Merenitsu wrote:

@Stubbe-Unibet 

  1. Once you have 20 tickets at € 2 and € 1 level (20 tickets for each level), you’re not allowed to exchange further tickets to this level
  2. Once you have 10 tickets at € 10 and € 4 level (10 tickets for each level), you’re not allowed to exchange further tickets to this level – so once you’ve got 10 €10 tickets and win a € 50 ticket, you’ll be forced to play the € 50 ticket (unless you lose more € 10 tickets so you’ve got less than 10 again)

 

if i will have more or less on every level?


I'm afraid I don't really understand your question. It's actually pretty simple. If you have 20 or more € 2 tickets, you can't exchange a € 10 ticket to € 2 ticket. If you've got 10 €10 tickets, you're not allowed to exchange a € 50 ticket to € 10 :)

If you have 2, 7, 15 or 19 € 2 tickets, you can exchange a € 10 ticket to € 2 tickets.

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@Stubbe-Unibet wrote:

 

  • Daily exchangers instead of weekly
  • No exchangers for € 250 tickets
  • If you’ve got more than x tickets, you’re not allowed to exchange further ticket to that level:
    1. Once you have 20 tickets at € 2 and € 1 level (20 tickets for each level), you’re not allowed to exchange further tickets to this level
    2. Once you have 10 tickets at € 10 and € 4 level (10 tickets for each level), you’re not allowed to exchange further tickets to this level – so once you’ve got 10 €10 tickets and win a € 50 ticket, you’ll be forced to play the € 50 ticket (unless you lose more € 10 tickets so you’ve got less than 10 again)
  • Possibly a slightly shorter expiry date on € 50 tickets 

 

So basically the maximum amount of ticket value a player can have is 100 Euro in UO10s and 40 Euros in Uo2s before exchanges are blocked again? With the trade off being the UO50s expiring earlier? To paraphrase LL Cool J, I wouldn't call that a comeback. In my opinion, this is not a smart idea, because you're trying too much here and artificially create rules that'll "probably" backfire again. It baffles me that after almost 6 months, you still have not understood why you lost so many players...

A smart idea would be to allow exchanges at all levels, however come up with a solution, so that UO50 regulars are not playing the UO2s or UO10s with exchanged tickets. That would give the players the freedom to build their UO bankroll (if they want to) while also giving some protection to the lower stakes.

 

We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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@WuDu wrote:

@Stubbe-Unibet wrote:

 

  • Daily exchangers instead of weekly
  • No exchangers for € 250 tickets
  • If you’ve got more than x tickets, you’re not allowed to exchange further ticket to that level:
    1. Once you have 20 tickets at € 2 and € 1 level (20 tickets for each level), you’re not allowed to exchange further tickets to this level
    2. Once you have 10 tickets at € 10 and € 4 level (10 tickets for each level), you’re not allowed to exchange further tickets to this level – so once you’ve got 10 €10 tickets and win a € 50 ticket, you’ll be forced to play the € 50 ticket (unless you lose more € 10 tickets so you’ve got less than 10 again)
  • Possibly a slightly shorter expiry date on € 50 tickets 

 

So basically the maximum amount of ticket value a player can have is 100 Euro in UO10s and 40 Euros in Uo2s before exchanges are blocked again? With the trade off being the UO50s expiring earlier? To paraphrase LL Cool J, I wouldn't call that a comeback. In my opinion, this is not a smart idea, because you're trying too much here and artificially create rules that'll "probably" backfire again. It baffles me that after almost 6 months, you still have not understood why you lost so many players...

A smart idea would be to allow exchanges at all levels, however come up with a solution, so that UO50 regulars are not playing the UO2s or UO10s with exchanged tickets. That would give the players the freedom to build their UO bankroll (if they want to) while also giving some protection to the lower stakes.

 


That's a fair summary, but we didn't "lose many players". We're talking a low number of players with a high volume. I believe  10 and 20 buyins respectively is reasonable.

With the ticket exchanges we consistently had overlay in the finals (significant overlay) and we have to prevent the excessive ticket hoarding and force the € 50 tickets to be used when it's reasonable. We do Not benefit from the excessive hoarding. At the end of the day, what matters is that we get cash buyins into the system equal to the value of the final GTD. 

Why do you need 100 tickets at each level? Present some proper arguments if you want to change anything :) 

Check the latest poker release notes. Have a look at our poker promotions

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@Stubbe-Unibet Can we know when (if it happen) this will start?

Lets say i have 9x10e tickets can i exchange one of 50e for 5x10e or only after i will be left with 5x10e? Nevermind this question i saw the answer higher up. 👍

 

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the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist
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