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I think buying in with cash should be banned to lower variance, You never know when they will use it , I mean its worse than tickets it doesnt even have an expiry date 🤣

 

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You can exchange UO tickets again all is unicorns and rainbows in Unibet land.
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@jonny2192 wrote:

I think buying in with cash should be banned to lower variance, You never know when they will use it , I mean its worse than tickets it doesnt even have an expiry date 🤣

 


Listen, I know you're joking, however that was exactly what I had in mind as well. If you have ticket hoarders, Unibet knows that those tickets are about to be used within the given time-frame. With less tickets, more people will buy in with cash and cash buy-ins mean more insecurity for Unibet. If @jonny2192 mainly has to buy in with cash instead of tickets, who guarantees that those cash buy-ins don't suddenly stop and he switches to another live event series in the UK?  

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We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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@WuDu wrote:


@jonny2192 wrote:

I think buying in with cash should be banned to lower variance, You never know when they will use it , I mean its worse than tickets it doesnt even have an expiry date 🤣

 


Listen, I know you're joking, however that was exactly what I had in mind as well. If you have ticket hoarders, Unibet knows that those tickets are about to be used within the given time-frame. With less tickets, more people will buy in with cash and cash buy-ins mean more insecurity for Unibet. If @jonny2192 mainly has to buy in with cash instead of tickets, who guarantees that those cash buy-ins don't suddenly stop and he switches to another live event series in the UK?  


I think government should introduce the 2% Unibet tax for all citizens to cover the qualifiers loss and avoid the Unibet employee's from miscalculations.

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@psrquack wrote:

@WuDu wrote:

@jonny2192 wrote:

I think buying in with cash should be banned to lower variance, You never know when they will use it , I mean its worse than tickets it doesnt even have an expiry date 🤣

 


Listen, I know you're joking, however that was exactly what I had in mind as well. If you have ticket hoarders, Unibet knows that those tickets are about to be used within the given time-frame. With less tickets, more people will buy in with cash and cash buy-ins mean more insecurity for Unibet. If @jonny2192 mainly has to buy in with cash instead of tickets, who guarantees that those cash buy-ins don't suddenly stop and he switches to another live event series in the UK?  


I think government should introduce the 2% Unibet tax for all citizens to cover the qualifiers loss and avoid the Unibet employee's from miscalculations.


Please do not give the UK government more ideas.

They keep adding new taxes for things they consider bad for us. Latest one is now an additonal tax on drinks with too much sugar.

 

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You can exchange UO tickets again all is unicorns and rainbows in Unibet land.
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@WuDu wrote:

@jonny2192 wrote:

I think buying in with cash should be banned to lower variance, You never know when they will use it , I mean its worse than tickets it doesnt even have an expiry date 🤣

 


Listen, I know you're joking, however that was exactly what I had in mind as well. If you have ticket hoarders, Unibet knows that those tickets are about to be used within the given time-frame. With less tickets, more people will buy in with cash and cash buy-ins mean more insecurity for Unibet. If @jonny2192 mainly has to buy in with cash instead of tickets, who guarantees that those cash buy-ins don't suddenly stop and he switches to another live event series in the UK?  


I agree, As discussed before the tickets "anchor" you to the site, When you have 100s or even 1000s in tickets your not going to leave and play elsewhere.

 

You can exchange UO tickets again all is unicorns and rainbows in Unibet land.
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@jonny2192 wrote:



Please do not give the UK government more ideas.

They keep adding new taxes for things they consider bad for us. Latest one is now an additonal tax on drinks with too much sugar.

 


Then merchants should sell those things as upgraded sugar and they can avoid to pay the tax.🤣

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@XY

Do you know how the 6 tix UO50 did today? The regular 4 tix attracted 24 and 16 ( :laugh: ) players...

We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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@WuDu wrote:

@XY

Do you know how the 6 tix UO50 did today? The regular 4 tix attracted 24 and 16 ( :laugh: ) players...


Don't know exactly.My focus was on Supernova this time.

When I opened lobby,saw 5 registered players,15-20min till start of the tournament.Doubt that it went above 18 players...15-18,19 max.

Succes,poker team would say!

tenor.gif

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@Janek wrote:


@WuDu wrote:

@XY

Do you know how the 6 tix UO50 did today? The regular 4 tix attracted 24 and 16 ( :laugh: ) players...


26


Thanks, bro!

200 Euro loss, or as the Unibet poker team sees it right now:

OFHLYxZ

 

 

 

 

We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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I used my last UK tour ticket on Saturday and I'm sad to say that I'll likely not be bothering with the satellite system anymore. The ticket exchange was an excellent way for me to play lots of satellites without burning a hole in my poker money.

 

I also don't see the point in playing satellites to events which have no date, venue or any sort of information which will let a recreational player like myself plan around work and family life.

 

It's a shame really because it was really unique that Unibet allowed this and was a big factor in me choosing to play on the site. Now I spend less time on the client and therefore play less games. I haven't got to be on the client to play that half 8 satty every night now because all the things that made me want to play it previously have gone now.

 

It really does seem that Unibet don't care as much about the tour as they used to, this is evident in the fact that we are nearly at February and those of us who have won packages still have no schedule. I remember speaking to David Pomroy about the it in Glasgow a couple of years ago and he was very passionate about a tour that was made for the recreational player.

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@NeriPoker wrote:

I used my last UK tour ticket on Saturday and I'm sad to say that I'll likely not be bothering with the satellite system anymore. The ticket exchange was an excellent way for me to play lots of satellites without burning a hole in my poker money.

 

I also don't see the point in playing satellites to events which have no date, venue or any sort of information which will let a recreational player like myself plan around work and family life.

 

It's a shame really because it was really unique that Unibet allowed this and was a big factor in me choosing to play on the site. Now I spend less time on the client and therefore play less games. I haven't got to be on the client to play that half 8 satty every night now because all the things that made me want to play it previously have gone now.

 

It really does seem that Unibet don't care as much about the tour as they used to, this is evident in the fact that we are nearly at February and those of us who have won packages still have no schedule. I remember speaking to David Pomroy about the it in Glasgow a couple of years ago and he was very passionate about a tour that was made for the recreational player.


The UK tour was a great way to meet community members and really created a sense of community. I have met so many members by playing these games but now it seems nobody is even going to try and qualify.

Have to jump on a train and go to Liverpool now if I want to have 5am chicken with you @NeriPoker :)

 

You can exchange UO tickets again all is unicorns and rainbows in Unibet land.
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Haven't read through the entire thread, but I do feel like there's a lot of focus on the $ rather than the motivations behind the change - there're several reasons, some of them written earlier in this thread. Let me try to explain the change a bit more in detail.

Unibet has been targeting the recreational player for many years, and nothing has changed in that regard - it's a level playingfield great for the guy/girl new to poker. Ticket exchanges - however awesome some think they are - were never something that benefited the casual recreational player (feel like we need to distinguish here, as recreational player is a pretty broad term covering several types of players). The exchanges had two primary effects:

- Made it significantly cheaper to qualify for someone who's serious about their poker
- Made the games tougher, especially at the lower stakes (not saying they were tough, just tougher) 

The exchanges were great for more serious players - many recreational - but they were never good for the guy new to poker. The effect on the ecosystem was not inline with the goal of being the best place for recreational players.

A lot of numbers have been posted here, so I thought I'd share some proper ones. Looking at UO qualifiers from week 30 2018 till week 2 2019 with a buyin of € 1 or more, exchangers excluded:
- More players playing the qualifiers 👍
- Cash buyin increasing 👍
- Ticket buyin decreasing (this and the above for one obvious reason) 
- Overlay pretty steady with a slightly negative trend (see first graph), and there're a few outliers affecting the trend. See graph below. The € 50 tournaments do indeed have a bigger overlay now than before the exchanges stopped. The € 250 are doing really great (see last graph) - overlay just twice since the change.

508359531_overlaygraph.thumb.png.38ebcd3434d414dcf3f04e881f4587d9.png893620817_Overlay250e.thumb.png.5987157d94ab476d2a8bf51d46e2c3ba.png

We'll need more data and thorough analysis to draw any conclusions, but I don't think it's as bad as it's made out to be in this thread.
I totally get why some players are extremely disappointed with the change - I would be too, if I was in your shoes - but the previous ticket exchange policy simply didn't benefit the casual recreational player.

So, it’s a combination of several things that caused this change; ease of planning and strategic focus being two key points.

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So basically the explanation in this topic went from we're hoping to "grow the series" (debunked) to we have to "cut costs" (debunked) to "the trend is our friend" (debunked) to "it's easier to schedule" (however the overlay increased) to "better for the poker ecology".  Did I miss something?  


@Stubbe-Unibet wrote:

Unibet has been targeting the recreational player for many years, and nothing has changed in that regard - it's a level playingfield great for the guy/girl new to poker. Ticket exchanges - however awesome some think they are - were never something that benefited the casual recreational player (feel like we need to distinguish here, as recreational player is a pretty broad term covering several types of players). The exchanges had two primary effects:

- Made it significantly cheaper to qualify for someone who's serious about their poker
- Made the games tougher, especially at the lower stakes (not saying they were tough, just tougher) 



So basically Unibet's strategy is to prop up the "casual recreational player" through the early stages of the qualifier tree by pushing out the "serious recreational player" in order to then feed the casual recs to the wolves once they reach the (10s), 50s and 250s? All while making it more expensive to qualify for all recreational players. Sounds like a solid plan, bro!


@Stubbe-Unibet wrote:

- More players playing the qualifiers 👍

Great news, yet still not related to the stop of exchangers.
- Cash buyin increasing 👍
- Ticket buyin decreasing (this and the above for one obvious reason) 

If cash buyins increase by e.g. 10 Euro and ticket buyins decrease by 100 Euro the overall result is still negative.
The € 50 tournaments do indeed have a bigger overlay now than before the exchanges stopped.

The 50s were steadily providing profit for you guys before, they went from profit to overlay after the exchanges.

The € 250 are doing really great (see last graph) - overlay just twice since the change.

Sure, because the amount of guaranteed tickets to the UO250 provided by you is steady and a lot of tickets have to be "killed" by the ticket hoarders.


 

 

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We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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@WuDu wrote:

So basically the explanation in this topic went from we're hoping to "grow the series" (debunked) to we have to "cut costs" (debunked) to "the trend is our friend" (debunked) to "it's easier to schedule" (however the overlay increased) to "better for the poker ecology".  Did I miss something?   


The full story should have been shared from the beginning, but as I mentioned above, it's a combination of many things, I just added a very important point. I do believe the series will grow, the costs will be cut (taking everything into consideration, I think the trend is pretty neutral). The planning is already easier and the finals are doing really well, as shown above. Leo is contantly monitoring things and will obviously make changes wherever needed - it's not been that long since the exchang options was removed.


@WuDu wrote:

So basically Unibet's strategy is to prop up the "casual recreational player" through the early stages of the qualifier tree by pushing out the "serious recreational player" in order to then feed the casual recs to the wolves once they reach the (10s), 50s and 250s? All while making it more expensive to qualify for all recreational players. Sounds like a solid plan, bro! 


No. I don't think we're pushing out anyone. Everyone is playing on the same terms - the same terms you'll find on literally ever other site - the lower stakes become softer and the higher stakes should not really become tougher - so overall it should be easier to qualify for the casual recreational player. Impossible to please everyone in this case, but offering a service which make the games tougher at lower stakes, that really doesn't fit with the strategy.


@WuDu wrote:

@Stubbe-Unibet wrote:

- More players playing the qualifiers 👍

Great news, yet still not related to the stop of exchangers.

- Cash buyin increasing 👍

- Ticket buyin decreasing (this and the above for one obvious reason) 

If cash buyins increase by e.g. 10 Euro and ticket buyins decrease by 100 Euro the overall result is still negative.

The € 50 tournaments do indeed have a bigger overlay now than before the exchanges stopped.

The 50s were steadily providing profit for you guys before, they went from profit to overlay after the exchanges.

The € 250 are doing really great (see last graph) - overlay just twice since the change.

Sure, because the amount of guaranteed tickets to the UO250 provided by you is steady and a lot of tickets have to be "killed" by the ticket hoarders.


The increase in cash buyin is not far from matching the decrease in ticket buyin.

And yes, if you simply look at the overlay in € 50 buyin tournaments, there's been a noticeable increase. Of course something Leo is on top of.

Again, if this turns out to have a really bad long-term effect on the UO qualifiers, we will of course look into it again, but so far that doesn't seem to be the case.

Also want to highligt that the UO stops have been announced (at least the first 3, last one to follow soon) https://www.unibetcommunity.com/t5/Unibet-Open-UK-Tour/Unibet-Open-2019-schedule-out-now/m-p/218176#M5626. UK tour will be announced soon as well

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@Stubbe-Unibet wrote:



The full story should have been shared from the beginning, but as I mentioned above, it's a combination of many things, I just added a very important point. I do believe the series will grow, the costs will be cut (taking everything into consideration, I think the trend is pretty neutral). The planning is already easier and the finals are doing really well, as shown above. Leo is contantly monitoring things and will obviously make changes wherever needed - it's not been that long since the exchang options was removed.



You sound like you're talking yourself up for the current Schalke season. "I believe things will grow", "costs will be cut", yada yada. The great thing about future promises is that current underachievements are supposed to be forgiven. Let's take a look at the real numbers:

This Sunday the final dropped from 53 to 47, still in the plus but not even close to offering another full package. The finals are doing so well that today, the Wednesday final didn't even run. Again. At least for the 4th time since November. But wait, it gets better:

uniop.PNG.f6716781cb0197c15cf99106b83ae92b.PNG

A 200 Euro loss on a 500 Euro GTD tourney is pretty bad. Yesterday, the UO50 had 19 participants. I don't see a neutral trend there, I see fluctuation around a much lower average. 

Also what I find really funny is the "it's not that long since the changes were implemented"-excuse. Like @XY said before, people are using up their old tickets. Actually for the first few weeks or even months after the stop of exchanges, you should have seen an increase in participation, not a decrease. I'm currently sitting on 25*50 Euro tickets, that's 1250 Euro worth in total. Those tickets are probably going to lead to 4-6 UO250 tickets, which means another 1000-1500 Euro turnover on top of it.

A guy sitting on a lot of UO10 tickets would have to kill them first, then play the 50s and then play the 250s, giving you roughly 3 times the turnover of his early November ticket value.

However like you could read here, a lot of ticket hoarders will simply stop playing after they cleared the tickets. So where's the growth to come from? Regular Unibet growth that you're then trying to sell us as growth due to the ticket exchange reform? Come on...The fact of the matter is that those changes alienated a huge part of your UO player base, something that obviously no one on the Unibet poker team saw coming and now we're up to explanation #5.

 


@Stubbe-Unibet wrote:


No. I don't think we're pushing out anyone. Everyone is playing on the same terms - the same terms you'll find on literally ever other site - the lower stakes become softer and the higher stakes should not really become tougher - so overall it should be easier to qualify for the casual recreational player. Impossible to please everyone in this case, but offering a service which make the games tougher at lower stakes, that really doesn't fit with the strategy.


 

Don't let facts get in the way of a good narrative. Everyone was playing on the same terms when those terms included exchanges as well. You were talking about casual recreational players being given a higher chance to qualify for the UO. If you give one of those casual recs a UO2 ticket, his chances of reaching the live event without rake is 1 in 1000. If you include the rake, it's what? 1 in 1600? If you then consider that those guys are at a serious disadvantage compared to the more sophisticated opponents playing the UO50s and UO250s, their chances are what? 1 in 2000? 1 in 2500? 1 in 3000? 1 in 5000? Pretty easy way to the finals if you ask me...

giphy

 It's also cute that you're talking about making the lower levels less competitive, yet on the other hand you're talking about growth and cost effectiveness. Let's say you manage to not alienate 100 % of the former ticket hoarders and some will stay on. Where in the qualifier tree do you think they are then going to play again? I started with the UO2s and probably must have had a 50 % ROI there. Then I moved on to the 10s, beat that level and went to the 50s. I clearly made the UO2s and the UO10s tougher for the other guys when I played there and when I left, those games became easier. Once my tickets are used up, I'm staying at Unibet but I'm leaving the UO games for good. However for someone like me, still interested in playing for a live package, it would be good business to start at the lower levels again, once all those tickets are used up! Which then would make these levels a tougher place for the other guys. And as I've said many times here before, I'm sure I'm not the only one thinking that way...

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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@XY

To be fair to Unibet, these tournaments happen from time to time. Have I ever seen that at the UO2 level? No...

The UO50 today is looking to clear the GTD, so what are the odds for the Unibet guys telling us that the trend is finally turning positive? :atisfied:

We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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This is probably the first time in history when players berate the company for having too many overlays 🤣 🤣 🤣

I get it tho, someone that doesn't have thousands of € to spend on satties won't be able to take advantage of the overlays anyway, most of the low stakes players that had a chance at qualifying until now got eliminated from the system / will be soon. 

And yes I'm bothered as well by some of the bs arguments used (sometimes on both sides) and cherrypicking of data to prove ones point (again on both sides), feels a lot like the amaya approach, but hey amaya is the industry standard now. That being said it's their job and their decision, whether good or bad or maybe even inconsequential to them despite possible higher costs, it's theirs to make. Continuing the comparison with Amaya, in this case there was no promise broken / players that didn't receive funds owed to them so no real reason to crucify them. 

 

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25 players for the UO50 on Friday, 24 on Saturday. Jubilation all over the Unibet poker team. The negative trend has been reversed, UO London might finally draw the people back in...Today:

open.PNG.19d5f65ac02a046cecd9661bd5287d0e.PNG

 Does anybody have the numbers for the 6 tix game?

 

 

We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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I’m not sure about the UO tour because I don’t spend that much in the sat tree but I think credit has to be given for changes to the UK tour. I’ve made it clear a few times I don’t like the 4->50 step and they often overlay, but there are other sat trees to pick up a 50 ticket. The weekly final is a success in my opinion now, though. 40-50 players each week whereas before it would struggle to reach the 3 seat guarantee. Now it comfortably gives away 5+ as far as I can see. Monday night game could do with some tweaking I think. Would rather see 25 freezeout to seat only rather than 10 rebuy. I think that currently overlays most weeks.

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@WuDu wrote:

25 players for the UO50 on Friday, 24 on Saturday. Jubilation all over the Unibet poker team. The negative trend has been reversed, UO London might finally draw the people back in...Today:

open.PNG.aa0c152c30474e5aa6f714f8809bc532.PNG

 Does anybody have the numbers for the 6 tix game?

 

 


27

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uop.png.edd2dac3de62543f60ff57e27864e939.png

16 players today. The positive trend continues, just give it some more time...😃

 

 

 

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We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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