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DepchZ Rank 12
Rank 12

Impressive background check on things and connecting some dots there. You definately can make that deduction from that information provided, but it could be unintended as well.

If it is unintended then they should make changes to such policy as it is a contradiction to responsible gaming policy. While it doesn't matter to majority, it can cause a few problems here and there. It's evident that slots are much more hooking mentally than something slow paced like live casino or poker.

If we suppose that it is intended, then one must ask that can you blame the companies for doing that. The companies / businesses run in modern economy are forced to have growth for the stake holders, also the money base experiences constant inflation (big or small) and majority of businesses are run by debt. Now I don't know is that so in the gambling business, it seems very lucrative with not much necessary operative costs in relation. But it's also a area of business that has a very high competition. So I understand if businesses do that, but it obviously is not very nice to the common player who might not be aware of such concepts and possible psychological hooks. You never have to accept or use an offered bonus/reward, but to offer possible traps as loyalty is bad, rather no rewards at all. That would be bad reputation.

Like mentioned as a player you would rather have loyalty rewarded within the gaming area you are playing in or at least have a choise do you want to test something else.

Maybe they can answer on this thread have you deciphered a not so positive company policy from the players POV.

This is not a real problem for me as I only play Unibet poker for some freerolls and spend my money on slots and live casino. The impressive case built here just demanded a response as a reward. Smile

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Nestabear Rank 19
Rank 19

Very interesting & good reading...I'de like to hear the official respone 👌 

Always remember... You can be... do... or have anything your heart desires !
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MetalWolf Rank 11
Rank 11

Really good read and interesting analysis. Not a big fan of having casino rewards myself as I ban myself from online casinos (including Unibets) because I do indeed have an addictive personality. 

If the intention is to increase growth in their poker sector I'm all for any idea they come up with, though. They said there is going to be an MTT overall hopefully ready for October which I hope happens. I do trust they are overall trying to improve the whole poker experience.

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Unibet Employee DavidP_Unibet
Unibet Employee

I'm glad you made this post as this is an important topic and it gives me the opportunity to clear it up. I'm going to try to address each of your points but I can start by categorically stating that the following is not even close to our agenda; ''we've now built up as solid base, let's go ahead and milk it for all it's worth''. Your points are valid and I can see how you have got from A to B but it's a conspiracy which I'd be happy to counter. For that I need to give a bit of context and some history, so apologies now if my post gets lengthy.

Poker is a small fraction of this company; indeed, the competive side of me finds it frustrating that no matter how quickly we grow, we can't currently outgrow the Sportsbook and Casino products and we remain at around 2-3% of the overall company. However, that just means that Unibet as a whole is doing well and that's good for all of us. However, there is no pressure on us to milk our playerbase or to accelerate the growth of Poker. If anything, the wider company is pleased and probably pleasantly surprised with how well Poker is doing in it's own right. I'd like us to be bigger than 2% of the business but if we stay at that level because Casino and Sportsbook is growing so quickly then I'll remain happy as it means we're still doing well.

Also some background on the Poker product and it's reason for existing. Back in 2012 (before my time, I joined in 2014) the situation was as such; Unibet would spend money on marketing to attract new poker players and those players would sign up and leave almost instantly (normally due to predatory games, etc). The company saw two options; kill the Poker product completely or try to do things in the right way so that Poker actually proved worth having. This decision-making went all the way to the CEO and as someone who is very much in favour of having a Poker product, he gave the green light for Unibet to take a risk. It's worth noting that this was a big risk. Unibet left the player pool of a network and went alone, trying out a philosophy that those here very much believed in but which hadn't been tried elsewhere and wasn't guaranteed to be successful at all. This decision was taken because those here (CEO included) believed that it was important for Unibet to have a worthwhile Poker product, not because they saw it as a sneaky way of potentially cross selling players into Casino in the future.

I mentioned on 2+2 in August that casino spins would be added to the September Mission and did my best to explain what NMPfan has essentially said above. If the Poker, Casino and Sportsbook teams each agree to cross sell players then Poker has the most to benefit, and it's not even close. Their player pools are huge compared to ours. We run betting freerolls, free spin freerolls communicated only to Casino players and also get to contact Sports and Casino customers with Poker news and offers. In exchange for that we have to give something in return, we can't just close our playerbase off to their products. This also benefits Unibet in general. If a player plays more products here then they are less likely to move to a competitor and might find an extra reason to stay with us which they weren't aware of before. Some players also asked for free spins to be included in the client (specifically buying sports bets and spins with bonus points, something we haven't been able to implement yet).

On to the value of Missions themselves. We spend x% of our revenue on retention each month and this figure hasn't decreased over time. That x% includes loyalty system, freerolls, tournament overlays, Missions, monthly promotions like King of Flips, social media giveaways, Twitch promotions, etc. While the overall % hasn't decreased over time, we do shift money from one thing to another over time. We would be pretty bad at our jobs if we just always left things as they were and didn't respond to trends and data we saw from our side. The number of players taking part in Missions had remained stagnant over the past year, despite overall play numbers growing. The long term solution is a different form of Mission which is more personalised and which occurs more frequently, but that is a few months off still. Robin has made some changes to Missions this year and the result has been more players engaging with them but we're always looking to improve them. If adding Casino spins causes less players to take part in Missions then we wouldn't keep offering them. I should also add that these spins have no playthrough requirement and have something like 97% RTP. On average these spins actually hold more EV for players than some low value tickets we could offer as an equivalent. 

I can assure you that nobody has ever given us orders to send our players into Casino or to 'milk' the playerbase. We currently have three main areas of focus, one of which is ecology. That would be a waste of time if the ultimate plan was to send everyone to Casino anyway. I'm part of this team because I want to help grow a Poker site which does something positive for the game and if I was told that I had to do something which went against my principles tied to that then I would be looking for a new place to work. I hope the explanation above is clear but of course feel free to quesiton me over anything that isn't. Things can always improved but I can assure you that the intentions are benevolent and that including Casino as part of the Poker client is a massive benefit to the growth of the platform. 

“Heroes are heroes because they are heroic in behavior, not because they won or lost.”
― Nassim Nicholas Taleb
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BundleFjoy Rank 10
Rank 10

If i read you right the way to get extra bonus is to buy shares of the Kindred Group? 😉

I also have banned myselve on Unibet casino for the same reason as MetalWolf, so this kind of reward is also something i am not happy about. 

I enjoyed reading your post! 

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KrustyTheClown Rank 11
Rank 11

Very decent Explanation @DavidP_Unibet
Thanks for taking the time to write such complete response.

While I also feel where @Tillus thoughts come free, I feel we shouldn't exaggerate.
Yes it can be a bit annoying to get an offer for free casino spins, if you are or were a bit of a degen.
But as you have the option to let yourself ban from these kind off games, I don't see the big problem.

Let's not forget that these casino players or sportsbettors hop onto the poker tables aswell occasionally.
They certainly makes the games much softer for all the regular pokerplayers...

Oh btw, the king of flames promo is HeartHeartsHeart rigged tho! Happy

 

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KrustyTheClown Rank 11
Rank 11
DepchZ Rank 12
Rank 12

This explanation provided was good and it's nice to know that it's not an intended model.

I am pondering something between the finer nuances of things here. There seems to be quite a few players who have banned casino from themselves acknowledging that it's an area of gaming that can cause them problems even in this thread. Promotions are just promotions and missing on those is fine and it's a personal decision you have chosen to avoid something. What needs to be addressed is however that do poker players who have banned casino from themselves miss out on some loyalty rewards? It's important can it be perceived as a true loyalty reward or more of a promotion of something if something is not given in instead. I'm just asking because I don't know, it at least should be something Unibet should acknowledge. This carries beyond poker to all areas of gaming sectors and their loyalty rewards. Smile

The solution obviously is a more personalized loyalty reward system.

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Unibet Employee DavidP_Unibet
Unibet Employee

DepchZ wrote:

This explanation provided was good and it's nice to know that it's not an intended model.

I am pondering something between the finer nuances of things here. There seems to be quite a few players who have banned casino from themselves acknowledging that it's an area of gaming that can cause them problems even in this thread. Promotions are just promotions and missing on those is fine and it's a personal decision you have chosen to avoid something. What needs to be addressed is however that do poker players who have banned casino from themselves miss out on some loyalty rewards? It's important can it be perceived as a true loyalty reward or more of a promotion of something if something is not given in instead. I'm just asking because I don't know, it at least should be something Unibet should acknowledge. This carries beyond poker to all areas of gaming sectors and their loyalty rewards. Smile

The solution obviously is a more personalized loyalty reward system.



Personally I think that the loyalty system (Challenges) can be considered 'loyalty' and something the player can expect based on their regular play. In that regard, there is a good argument to say that loyalty should only ever include poker rewards or cash.

Anything else I would class as a tool Unibet has to try to incentivise or reward certain groups of players. We might use those tools (such as missions, double trouble or monthly promotions) in different ways each month and if we really lost our minds then we might decide to scrap them altogher. I think getting used to something that's always there and being entitled to something are two different things though.

“Heroes are heroes because they are heroic in behavior, not because they won or lost.”
― Nassim Nicholas Taleb
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DepchZ Rank 12
Rank 12

DavidP_Unibet wrote:

DepchZ wrote:

This explanation provided was good and it's nice to know that it's not an intended model.

I am pondering something between the finer nuances of things here. There seems to be quite a few players who have banned casino from themselves acknowledging that it's an area of gaming that can cause them problems even in this thread. Promotions are just promotions and missing on those is fine and it's a personal decision you have chosen to avoid something. What needs to be addressed is however that do poker players who have banned casino from themselves miss out on some loyalty rewards? It's important can it be perceived as a true loyalty reward or more of a promotion of something if something is not given in instead. I'm just asking because I don't know, it at least should be something Unibet should acknowledge. This carries beyond poker to all areas of gaming sectors and their loyalty rewards. Smile

The solution obviously is a more personalized loyalty reward system.



Personally I think that the loyalty system (Challenges) can be considered 'loyalty' and something the player can expect based on their regular play. In that regard, there is a good argument to say that loyalty should only ever include poker rewards or cash.

Anything else I would class as a tool Unibet has to try to incentivise or reward certain groups of players. We might use those tools (such as missions, double trouble or monthly promotions) in different ways each month and if we really lost our minds then we might decide to scrap them altogher. I think getting used to something that's always there and being entitled to something are two different things though.


If you mean the missions in the poker room I must disagree on that definition of being a loyalty. They provide incentive to complete the tasks but it is not directly loyalty from playing poker at the tables for example. In other big rooms it's directly some points or rake back to the player playing. Maybe you meant some other poker challenges that I'm not aware of since I'm a casual player to poker. I'm planning to start spending more money on some tournaments and sng:s though at Unibet. This case was just very interesting to me overall and I got curious regarding all the nuances and stuff what goes on behind the mind of the company doing these things. There is no quarrel here, just out of sheer curiousity (I possess an inquisitive mind and it's not something to always like, I don't bring it out always though and usually just leave it be publicly).

To not leave everything at critcism only here I must point out that the community challenges here definately fit to a loyalty reward category for active and general players playing at Unibet. So there is reason to be happy from that alone as well (always look on the bright side of... etc.). Smile

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