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Tillus Rank 12
Rank 12

"The Kindred Group’s poker product is the fastest growing licensed poker network in the industry. The Unibet Open live poker series took place in Copenhagen in May and had over 1,000 entries, building up a total prize pool of over EUR 500,000. In June, Kindred won the “Innovation in Poker” award at the prestigious industry event EGR Operator Marketing and Innovation Awards."

Sounds great, doesn't it?

Much of this is due to Unibet's initially unique approach when launching their standalone network (no HUDs, rake policy etc.), marketing strategies & good value for small stakes players (low rake, deposit boni, rewards via missions)

In the beginning of their launch Unibet did a lot to attract new players. While first deposit bonus has been lowered for a while now from €500 to €200 this isn't really the point, as small stakes players could hardly ever achieve the full amount of the prior bonus offer. Whilst the bonus was lowered, missions continued to offer great value for small stakes players (i.e. the foundation of any poker platform)  

Until recently. In the past months the value of missions has gone down continuously. I already posted my take on that matter in this thread: https://www.unibetcommunity.com/t5/General-Poker/August-poker-promotions/m-p/103681

Responding to a complaint from a player about the value of the Mission Freerolls, @Jeppe-Unibet stated the following: "Doubt it (making missions harder), unless we get the same sentiment from a bunch of players. Until then, the Poker team has set the criteria how they see it being best for most possible players and according to previous feedback"

Until this month, I could still somehow comprehend how s.o. could justify these changes with the sake of considering 'poker ecology' in its broadest sense.

  But then they shot the sheriff imo this month with Mission2 ''You have received free spins, Hot Sync free spins''. First I thought it were free spins for this King Of Flips thing. But no, it's actually for a casino slot.O_RLY.jpg

There's just no f***in way you can anymore argue with poker ecology by replacing formerly poker boni/tickets with casino rewards. And I'm not talking about a loss of value here, which in theory probably isn't that relevant. Don't know if/how much decrease of value it is as opposed to a 1€ SNG/MTT ticket as these slots probably pay out about 92.5% when you bet in the smallest denomination. So, it might actually be the same value as Unibet gets fee back from the previous poker tickets. But of course we know this is actually about lureing poker players into the casino, getting them hooked on slots/casino games in general and letting them donk off their rolls in the online casino. This obviously tends to happen much faster than when playing poker, so lol@keeping the money in the system as long as possible (esp. that of losing players, which usually have tilt problems anyway and which is why they are doomed entering the casino from the getgo), with the benefit of Unibet reaping in all the profit and no winning players having a share of the money lost.

This doesn't come as a complete surprise however, when looking at the current numbers of the kindred group:kindred_group2017.png

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

They are doing great since the past few years, all revenue numbers on the rise. Especially the quarterly % numbers of the poker branch increasing. Despite the revenue from poker constantly going up,  the percentage share of poker revenue with regard to the entire revenue has actually gone down since Q1 2016. With 2% the poker branch is basically irrelevant for the company, except for its marketing potential (Social Media, twitch, UnibetOpen) and the poker player base being seen as potential future customers for more profitable branches as casino & betting.

I don't know where these changes come from. Maybe the management is demanding more aggressive casino/betting marketing/advertisement within the poker branch to increase their entire revenue (as if the annoying casino buttons on the tables weren't enough already?!). But as someone who has been playing online poker for over 10 years now, this looks to me like ''we've now built up as solid base, let's go ahead and milk it for all it's worth''

Sure, some of you might think I am exaggerating and that this isn't as big of a deal. But these recent developments hint towards a direction which is troublesome to me as a poker player. Wouldn't mind a statement from someone of poker staff on this behalf.

Please don't turn Unibet Poker into a 2nd Amaya! Don't screw up the trust of the players and the positive developments of the past few years. I as a player, would like to see Unibet Poker grow and I am definitely sure that casino games within the poker branch is not the way to go.

What do you guys think? 

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VikingsAF Rank 20
Rank 20

I have to agree with this (sadly enough)

They try to get poker players into a more gambling environment. And that's not only for these free spins.

The amount of "flip" satellites is increasing aswell. This is pure gambling with a game that is close to a skill game. (I say close to, since it stays based on luck)

I don't mind about the value either. But the rewards should benefit the player as a poker player. Not as a gambler. (this was exactly the same with the moving on up flip, where only 200 players got a reward, based on RNG)

I actually have to be honest, that I like the mission freerolls a lot. And in the end they are good value (compared to what it was in the past)

Edit: @Tillus forgot to add that your post is amazingly well written Smile 

I see now that the circumstances of ones birth are irrelevant... It is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are.
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jonny2192 Rank 22
Rank 22

@DavidP_Unibet Mentioned on 2+2 that the missions will be having a lot positive changes not to do with casino, I wasnt that keen on this months missions but will wait to see what happens next month.

https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showpost.php?p=52786606&postcount=22796

Duckphobia is real and KK is cursed, If you know these 2 things you will do well on Unibet poker.
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Balonas Rank 13
Rank 13

After seeing those numbers, I think that, everybody from UNIBET (all the employess) got huge bonuses as rewards for a great half year. Why should they change their vision if everything goes in the right direction?

Have you ever seen a recreational complaining about anything related to a gambling business (including UNIBET)? (ok, maybe they had complaints if the site was down and couldn't play, but other than that?!)

The only ones that are complaining are the regs... but guess what, nobody from this business likes regs.

If you mention here a real gambling site that likes regsI'll be more that happy to see.

Good luck all!

 

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startelver Rank 16
Rank 16

I dont see the problem , as long as there are enough recreational players who likes to gamble on both sportsbet and casino.

Poker players who likes to gamble , there are a few of them .  That will only increase the profit of Unibet and us regular players can enjoy the benefits . 

 

 

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jonny2192 Rank 22
Rank 22

startelver wrote:

I dont see the problem , as long as there are enough recreational players who likes to gamble on both sportsbet and casino.

Poker players who likes to gamble , there are a few of them .  That will only increase the profit of Unibet and us regular players can enjoy the benefits . 

 

 


I think if the value of the missions drops as a permanent thing it will be a problem.

last september it was 11e in direct value of tickets.

this time 1e and spins and freerolls.

All the rec players I know on Unibet will come back at the beginning of the month to try the new missions, they wont if its for freerolls and spins.

Duckphobia is real and KK is cursed, If you know these 2 things you will do well on Unibet poker.
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Tillus Rank 12
Rank 12

hey @Balonas I appreciate anyone who takes part in the discussion and you obviously have a valid point. If there weren't any winning regs, losing players would go broke less quickly and thus the poker site would make more money. As casino games are unbeatable anyway, we can leave this out. When it comes to betting you are a 100% right I guess (sites not likeing these players). By that I mean consistantly winning players or players who place surebets. Don't know how Unibet handles such players. Their sportbookreview.com rating went from B+ entering the rating in '08 down to C- in 2014 and has been upgraded to B early this year. Some operators set the betting limits super low or have a bookie confirm any bet (and mostly decline), or super hard cashout requirements are imposed (like clearing x-times the deposit amount with the new very low betting limits) or some shady sitessimply close the acc. and at times even seize funds (not saying Unibet does this often, but they seem to lack a bit of transparency when money is being withheld). I don't really do sportsbetting so somebody else might have a more profound evaluation of this.

When it comes to poker however, I think your view is too one-sided. They obviously don't 'love' regs but they don't hate same per se, because they need them in a way. Especially a site like Unibet had to work a lot with affiliates at the start of their standalone client to get a decent player base. Not all of these players are winning players ofc but some are gonna be regs who are winning anyway and receiving additional rakeback in some form or the other. But these players help immensly filling the tables and we all know that recreationals don't like to wait for a game. Same goes for tournaments, where the funplayer has his eyes on the (top) prize and without multitabling regs some MTTs on unibet wouldn't even start and the GTD would be much lowever, which means the tournaments looks much less attractive to recreational players.    

As to all Unibet employees receiving huge bonuses, I doubt so. Obviously this depends on the rank of the employee in question. Generally, market-placed companies have some kind of a pyramid-system with regards to boni. That is, the lower levels of employees receiving little to nothing (maybe a watch or a mont blanc pen and sh1t) and the boni for high-ranked employees, esp. in the management being exponentially higher. I mean we are talking about a company that is on the stock market, so obviously their goal (or that of the management) is to increase shareholder value and thus increasing the value of the company, the money of the shareholders, their own boni and not primarily sharing with their fellow employees. Often it's exactly the opposite, increasing shareholder value by cutting personnel costs, dismissing/saving employees, lowering wagers, outsourcing etc.

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NMPfan Rank 16
Rank 16

The entire idea behind all the casino stuff being implemented is cross selling with other products, either to get players from other sections, or to get more budget to acquire more players and make bigger promotions for poker. I'm pretty sure that the main goal of the poker team is to grow the poker product as much as possible, not to maximize revenue or to transform everyone into a casino player. And to do that you need funding.

Also I've seen suggestions before idk if here or on 2+2 to add casino spins as rewards and it looks like they listened. 

Personally I'm not a fan of any intrusive casino stuff making it's way to poker, since it makes the game less safe for people that have gambling problems (and this becoming a trend everywhere), but I understand the reasons why they have to do it sometimes, and getting casino players into poker is obviously amazing if it happens. 

If a promo doesn't work or if many people don't like it I assume they will change it, so I'm curious to see what will happen with this.

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WuDu Rank 17
Rank 17

Tillus wrote:

Their sportbookreview.com rating went from B+ entering the rating in '08 down to C- in 2014 and has been upgraded to B early this year. Some operators set the betting limits super low or have a bookie confirm any bet (and mostly decline)

 

LOL at sbr being a reliable source, didn't those clowns have a few A+ bookmakers go broke in the past?



 

We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
God Emperor Trump
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livertool Rank 19
Rank 19

WuDu wrote:

Tillus wrote:

Their sportbookreview.com rating went from B+ entering the rating in '08 down to C- in 2014 and has been upgraded to B early this year. Some operators set the betting limits super low or have a bookie confirm any bet (and mostly decline)

 

LOL at sbr being a reliable source, didn't those clowns have a few A+ bookmakers go broke in the past?



 


I think they had too good terms and bonuses for players and there for got busted Very Happy

Just caught my eye that nordicbet, betsson and betsafe are all in different ratings although same firm and software so i don´t what is up with that?

"I've done the math enough to know the dangers of our second guessing"
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