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jerry
Rank 21
Rank 21

@Leo-Unibet @Andy-Unibet @Stubbe-Unibet 

Yesterday i got contacted about ratholing.

Dont know if it was for my overall effort, or because of yesterday play. The email is in polish and is very standardized and vague and at no point im asked or accused by name. The content of it is that they are contacting about ratholing and the description of the term . At the same time email is titled with number so im thinking that maybe i triggered the system Scared

Yesterday didnt have the time for cash session so i went only for those 17 flops for St Patrick flip. Went away from tables too soon thinking i have the number [i have notifications off] and came straight back for one or two flops. The same thing happen probably more than a dozen times through other promos with flops to see. Was the system targeting me because of that? If yes i dont really know what to say Geek

WHAT EXACTLY IS CONSIDERED BY RATHOLING? When i have very aggro tables and and im few BB down and i win more than 1BB back and i dont want to play deep is that ratholing? When i have crazy allin guy at the table but somehow i win something from him [usually on Uni those guys are unbeatable] but i dont want to play with him anymore is that ratholing?

I need to know EXACTLY what i can and what i cant. Some softwares have solutions for it implemented in the client.

Email is saying also that Unibet reserve the right to suspend or close the account. Is my money in danger? Is this some kind three strikes thing or something. Im kinda worried here and im def off the cash tables for a while...DisappointedAngry

the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist
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HardGain
Rank 10
Rank 10

well, very interesting questions here, because I'm doing something like that when trying to "survivive" with my cash game ticket and see 300 flops...
I hope we are not doing something bad :/

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Bl3ss3dMMA
Rank 10
Rank 10

tenor

finally they are doing sg about ratholing!!!

ofc it would be better if the software could prevent it fully but this baby step shows some effort i really appreciate!!

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HardGain
Rank 10
Rank 10

i agree, but if they give you a cash game ticket for a buy in that is 3x or 4x higher the one you play normally, what can you do?
And on top of that you ahve to see 300 flops to unlock it

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FreedoM
Rank 23
Rank 23

@jerry wrote:

Email is saying also that Unibet reserve the right to suspend or close the account. Is my money in danger? Is this some kind three strikes thing or something. Im kinda worried here and im def off the cash tables for a while...DisappointedAngry


Not a Fan of Ratholing but it's kinda aggressive af from Unibet. 

Ratholing is the act of cashing out chips from a cash game table then rebuying with a smaller amount of chips. It is considered unethical behaviour, and against the rules in many cash games. Interestingly,ratholing confers no specific advantage to the ratholer and no disadvantage to the other players at the table. In other words, there is no decent reason why ratholing should be considered unethical. It’s simply a case of players feeling bad that they can no longer win back the chips they lost to a certain villain. Must agree, if the villain plays 50bb-100bb and he does this i don't really get have a reaction, but there are those 400bb-500bb+ pots where they do this and if they also got lucky, man it tilt's me like a mf. But all of this can be easily fixed by implementing a 15-30 min clock like on the other rooms where the villain needs to wait the time amount implemented if he wishes to play again with 50bb-100bb at the same table, if not he can continue playing with the same stack. But idk, this day's i'm kinda undecided about my stance on this subject. 

“The unfed mind devours itself.” – Gore Vidal
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Andy-Unibet
Unibet Poker Expert
Unibet Poker Expert

@jerry wrote:

@Leo-Unibet @Andy-Unibet @Stubbe-Unibet 

Yesterday i got contacted about ratholing.

Dont know if it was for my overall effort, or because of yesterday play. The email is in polish and is very standardized and vague and at no point im asked or accused by name. The content of it is that they are contacting about ratholing and the description of the term . At the same time email is titled with number so im thinking that maybe i triggered the system Scared

Yesterday didnt have the time for cash session so i went only for those 17 flops for St Patrick flip. Went away from tables too soon thinking i have the number [i have notifications off] and came straight back for one or two flops. The same thing happen probably more than a dozen times through other promos with flops to see. Was the system targeting me because of that? If yes i dont really know what to say Geek

WHAT EXACTLY IS CONSIDERED BY RATHOLING? When i have very aggro tables and and im few BB down and i win more than 1BB back and i dont want to play deep is that ratholing? When i have crazy allin guy at the table but somehow i win something from him [usually on Uni those guys are unbeatable] but i dont want to play with him anymore is that ratholing?

I need to know EXACTLY what i can and what i cant. Some softwares have solutions for it implemented in the client.

Email is saying also that Unibet reserve the right to suspend or close the account. Is my money in danger? Is this some kind three strikes thing or something. Im kinda worried here and im def off the cash tables for a while...DisappointedAngry


Hi @jerry,

Just to confirm what we're referring to, I'll quote the English version of the email: -

"Ratholing is the act of cashing out chips from a cash game table for then to rebuy almost instantly  with a smaller amount of chips. It is considered unethical and is one of the most common complaints from our customers when it comes to reasons why they have a poor playing experience. While we believe it is ok for a player who is uncomfortable playing with a large stack to leave the table occasionally, repeated removal of chips, especially for small amounts, is not considered acceptable."

I don't think we can make the part in bold much clearer to be honest, other than adding "per session over an extended period of time". The emails were sent out to a select number of customers that were ratholing hundreds of times over a 45 day period from the start of the year. It is not related to any actions during the St. Patricks Day promotion and what you did during that would not be considered an issue. Playing a few hands and then finishing your session is fine, repeatedly joining and leaving the while taking small amounts of profit off the table is not.

Your money is safe. In the unlikely event a customer continues their pattern of persistent ratholing, after being warned, and we need to close their account they will still be able to withdraw any funds. It's much more likely we'll just block access to the poker client rather than close the account entirely but we'd hope that we don't need to use either of these options with any of the players and they take heed of the information given to them and change they way they go about their sessions.

 

 

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FreedoM
Rank 23
Rank 23

@Andy-UnibetAbout blocking account's after the customer as been warned, don't you think it's better to have a system where you block the customer for 1 month then 3 then 6 and then 1 year, etc. This gives them time to reflect and also you don't lose them for eternity. 

“The unfed mind devours itself.” – Gore Vidal
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Andy-Unibet
Unibet Poker Expert
Unibet Poker Expert

Hi @FreedoM,

How we would deal with players that ignore any warnings we give them would obviously be on a case by case basis and I hope we don't have to do it with any of the players that received this email or any other we send in future. Having said that, we also have to consider whether it is worth allowing a single player back when they've made the playing experience of many other customer worse in the past. We don't take account blocking/closure lightly and it is considered a last resort. 

As far as I'm concerned, if a player received a one month block and then came back and continued to persistently rathole then a 3 month, 6 month or 1 year block is not going to change their behaviour. The email sent out should be the trigger for these players to reflect on their behavior and decide if they want to change it or not.

Automatic ratholing prevention is on the development roadmap and will hopefully eliminate this issue in the future.

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Bl3ss3dMMA
Rank 10
Rank 10

@Andy-Unibet good job guys and thx your work very much!!

'Automatic ratholing prevention is on the development roadmap and will hopefully eliminate this issue in the future."

the sooner the better! LFG!

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Argevolen
Rank 16
Rank 16

@Andy-Unibet wrote:

Hi @FreedoM,

How we would deal with players that ignore any warnings we give them would obviously be on a case by case basis and I hope we don't have to do it with any of the players that received this email or any other we send in future. Having said that, we also have to consider whether it is worth allowing a single player back when they've made the playing experience of many other customer worse in the past. We don't take account blocking/closure lightly and it is considered a last resort. 

As far as I'm concerned, if a player received a one month block and then came back and continued to persistently rathole then a 3 month, 6 month or 1 year block is not going to change their behaviour. The email sent out should be the trigger for these players to reflect on their behavior and decide if they want to change it or not.

Automatic ratholing prevention is on the development roadmap and will hopefully eliminate this issue in the future.


Slowroll is also unethical behaviour. Etiquette and poker are not compatible at all! We are not in an English club for aristocrats.
Many annoying things are part of the players' strategy.  Constant use of timebank on the bubble in a tournament is also unethical behaviour.
Banning player accounts for one thing and turning a blind eye to everything else is also unethical behaviour.



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