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Probably unpopular opinion: recent changes in bounty tournaments & general view on tournaments


Mynona

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@Leo-Unibet  @Patric-Unibet @JeppeL @testuser1

hey everyone :)

So, i saw that the stack and levels changed for the bounty tournaments since yesterday.

As an example: the 1 € bounty tournament was 3k starting stack and 4 min levels. With 265 players, It took about 2h30-2h40 to finish and it is very popular in general (garantees are always met for months now).  The change is 5k starting stack and 8 min levels now and it is an absolute disaster in terms of length of tournament.

There is a tournament that started round noon today with 275 players so its a good base for comparison with 265 players in the old format:  we are already 4h30 in the game and it is still NOT finished.

So basically, this change is gonna make the tournaments nearly twice as long and i don't understand how this change is a good one for fun players ??  I do'nt want to play nearly 5 hours for a 1€ bounty tournament ! i play for entertainment and its not fun when its becoming that long: it becomes  a grind/work rather than a nice experience.  

While i understand some players want to play longer to have a better variance, i dont think this is the right move for a lot of fun players: there should still be average tournaments to choose from for some "lighter" players on unibet.

In general, the tendency for a year now is to:

- have more and more 6-max (i personally hate that format so the choice is getting smaller by the minute)

- have longer tournaments with bigger stack and bigger levels, even the old ones being shorter are getting changed little by little

- have more and more rebuy/addons/re-entry and what not,  that all add time to the length of tournament

I start to really not like the fact there are no alternative anymore.  And no, i don't think Hexapro is filling the blanks for shorter games.

One of the reason i played exclusively on unibet for 3 years is for fun tournaments, not too much addon/rebuy, and not too long to play. And now, Unibet is going exactly in the opposite direction and looking more and more like pokerstars/partypoker/bwin/etc.... If you are a regular, you don't mind playing for hours and its perfectly ok but i really thought unibet would also think of the other players like me who don't want to spend the whole day/night playing only one/two small buyin tournaments.

I'm not gonna enter a debate about "variance is better in long tournaments.....you can play better poker..... you don't know whats good for you, etc....."  because believe it or not, i don't care too much about this:  i just want to play an hour or two and have fun and the new format of most tournaments are going away from that more and more.   Not everybody plays for the absolute nuts value in poker.

I'm not a pro, i'm not living from poker, i just want to have fun from time to time.

Anyway, i told you it would be unpopular opinion but this last change was too much for me to just keep quiet so i'm trying to express a different opinion of most of you in this forum (for the last time probably, will go back to lurking after  :p)

Fire away in the comments guys & girls, or not ... :)

Last thing:  @Leo-Unibet    would it be possible for you to create a thread where you mention the changes you are doing to the tournaments in term of guarantees, stack, levels lengths, etc...  I notice it changes regularly every 2-3 weeks for some tournaments and it would be nice to have one place where we can look and have directly the right info and the occasion to express our opinions ? you have done that for some main things like the UOS or UO/UK your but not for all the  other tournaments. It would make it clearer and also give a better general view of where unibet is going in terms of guarantees and tournament structures.

 

 

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i also think that old shooting should stay  ...not replace.  change some hours for shooting 

but I think you are exaggerating with this time @Mynona 

how good ? maybe this fun players goes to 25e Ice Giant  Bounty someday  ... now they have easiest way  from 0.2e.

maybe this Falling would be better with 75% bounty prize pool ...  

"Small opportunities are often the beginning of great enterprises."
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Going trough your post quickly I want to add this.

1) It's good that they are trying to create a specific format for each name (same structure for all BI's) and I think this all is okay and there is no problem as it is with the new games. BUT

2) There remains the issue that there are just far too few tournaments in the schedule... So there is room to also add the old structures. And I know I said this already million times, but @Leo-Unibet please listen.
Have these 3 or 4 unique names for your "flagship" tournaments. (Shooting star or falling star (structure of falling is better as flagship), multiverse and singularity) Let them start at the same time each hour (Maybe with alternating BI levels and in the later hours with 2 BI levels)
And then fill up with "default" MTT's with variable structures. Like "Turbo Bounty", "Turbo Rebuy", "Re-entry", "Deep" etc.

An example below (CET times). This give you a very strong base structure of a shedule which everyonoe will  understand

8:
00 - 1 euro Falling star
20 - 2 euro Multivers
40 - 10 euro Singularity
9:
00 - 5 euro Falling star
20 - 10 euro Multivers
40 - 1 euro Singularity
10:
00 - 10 euro Falling star
20 - 2 euro Multivers
40 - 5 euro Singularity
11:
00 - 2 euro Falling star
20 - 1 euro Multivers
40 - 10 euro Singularity
12:
00 - 10 euro Falling star
20 - 5 euro Multivers
40 - 2 euro Singularity
13:
00 - 5 euro Falling star
20 - 2 euro Multivers
40 - 10 euro Singularity
14:
00 - 1 euro Falling star
20 - 10 euro Multivers
40 - 5 euro Singularity
15:
00 - 10 euro Falling star
20 - 5 euro Multivers
40 - 1 euro Singularity
16:
00 - 5 euro Falling star
20 - 2 euro Multivers
40 - 10 euro Singularity
17:
00 - 1 euro Falling star
20 - 10 euro Multivers
40 - 2 euro Singularity
18:
00 - 2 euro Falling star and 10 euro Falling star
20 - 5 euro Multivers and 25 Multivers
40 - 10 euro Singularity and 1 euro Singularity
19:
00 - 5 euro Falling star and 25 euro Falling star
20 - 1 euro Multivers and 10 euro Multivers
40 - 25 euro Singularity and 2 euro Singularity
20:
00 - 1 euro Falling star and 50 euro Falling star
20 - 2 euro Multivers and 5 euro Multiverse
40 - 10 euro Singularity and 5 euro Singularity
21:
00 - 5 euro Falling star
20 - 10 euro Multivers
40 - 25 euro Singularity
22:
00 - 2 euro Falling star
20 - 25 euro Multivers
40 - 10 euro Singularity

This you then fill up with random MTT's with variable structures (Following example could be the entire schedule between 4PM and 5PM CET)

16:
00 - 5 euro Falling star
05 - 10 euro PLO Turbo
15 - 1 euro Turbo Rebuy
20 - 2 euro Multivers
25 - 5 euro  Deepstacks
35 - 2 euro Turbo Bounty
40 - 10 euro Singularity

45 - 5 euro PLO freezout

And then you can fill this up with some sats, bbut I considered this would make everything too complex for a simple post like this.

I see now that the circumstances of ones birth are irrelevant... It is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are.
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@Mynona  i add smth  ...

and remember one thing when you criticize these  long levels and stack ...   you have late reg : 80min... you canenter to play with 25 Big blinds!!  this is a playable stack  ...  so this change is super for everyone... even prize pool can grow ... there many good things in  decent stack and levels ... 

"Small opportunities are often the beginning of great enterprises."
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Those were the tournaments that didnt need fixing. They could even add 3-4 a day more of them and they would meet the guarantees everytime. There was one (ONE!!!) plo shooting for 1euro that starts at ridiculous hour of 12;45CET and it always exceed the guarantees (ALWAYS). At saturday or sunday (or both) it was more than 130people there (were talking PLO after all). I asked why not add one or two more of them (at least one in the evening about 20cet) and nothing. Instead we got very deep, like more than 100bb on FT 0.65cents one on which Unibet is losing money 🤣. And even more ridiculous thing is the hour of the start of the 2e plo shooting star (still named that i guess someone went asleep) at 7;30CET. I dont know who thought its a good idea, maybe someone made a mistake and it supposed to be 19;30CET 🤣

 

the greatest trick the devil ever pulled was convincing the world he didn't exist
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I totally agree with all of you. Generally small stakes tournaments play recreational players and it’s pretty waste of time to play 5 hours or more for praise pool of 50-100€. I play small stakes( mostly freerolls) on 10 deferent rooms and I find that Unibet is the best for that kind of players, definitely,, from players for players”

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@popstani wrote:

I totally agree with all of you. Generally small stakes tournaments play recreational players and it’s pretty waste of time to play 5 hours or more for praise pool of 50-100€. I play small stakes( mostly freerolls) on 10 deferent rooms and I find that Unibet is the best for that kind of players, definitely,, from players for players”


@popstani I do not understand ... you're rec, im too ... you play mostly freerolls,  you dont have bankroll i assume ... if the prizes do not satisfy you  do why not bigger stakes? if you like plaing as shortstack ... so you can late reg ...  and you have 3.5-4h ... like before...  really i dont see big problem with that ... for someone who like only shoves ... I think also that late reg. in Falling Sky can be increased ... now you enter with 25bb .... so for some  no-patience rec. players,  freerolls/banzai  types  10BB in late reg is good move ... result ... you have your short MTT 2-3hours even 10minutes maybe ...

"Small opportunities are often the beginning of great enterprises."
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@jerry  i dont agree boss.  evert poker room needs some  Flagship tournaments,  stake/time  doesent matter ...  structure must provides :

-  1.5-2h late reg  ->  field can increase... especially in bounty MTT's field is important...then paid places even in late stage are not so important ... maybe at FT or smth.

- you can not scare other types of players too ... 

For example  old Shooting is no material for flagship MTT.  Maybe regular MTT  every hour or two.  Maybe some of them with 75% Bounty prize pool ...I guarantee it to you  if Unibet setup .. 400-500GTD on Falling Sky at 18;00 .. then you'll see every day there 400+ players ...

I dont speak about very deep stacks ...  5k and 6-8min levels for Bounty is decent in  rush hour event. Smth similar to  Stars....  Bounty Builder, Hot, BiG ... which start  18-21 for 0.55$-3.3$.  

I know that cashgames and sng are more profitable for pokerooms ... but MTTs schedule must also be stable with some 'bigger events' betwen 18-21  on stakes 0.5, 1, 2 and 5 euro etc. 

 

"Small opportunities are often the beginning of great enterprises."
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@pinki, 3.5-4 hours (or even 2.5 hours) is too long for some recreationals - for me personally it'd have to a pretty big buyin, if I was to play for more than 3 hours online. If I'm going to play a tournament with a buyin of € 1-5 on Unibet (where the prize pool isn't huge), I honestly wouldn't want to play for much more than 90 minutes.

Furthermore, I think it's a bit weird considering these two scenarios as almost identical:

1. Play a turbo tournament from the beginning with the same stack as everyone else and significant # of BB's

2. Latereg to a deepstack/slower paced tournament where you're up against huge stacks and have few BB's.

 

There should be space for both formats, especially if the strategy is focused around the recreational :)

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@testuser1  you have right...  others pokerooms also see this ... so ie. you have turbos/hyper every hour ...  but i think that in rush hours even on 1e  we can have some 500GTD very easily ... for sure in bounty MTT beacuse everyone loves them:) 

Even re-entry in bounty is good idea for  rush hours ... 

I realize that for German, Belgian  1euro is  nothing(for me  also,so i stared some challenge and i try to look at it as UNIT/buy-ins ) .. but we cant think that 1e is trash so ... 100% mtts must be  hyper/turbo  ... for many people here 1euro have some value.  I think that setup some decent daily MTTs is good idea.. especially in rush hours...  but this is the Unibets job ... but in first place  Application must be fixed! :Rofl:


@testuser1 wrote:

1. Play a turbo tournament from the beginning with the same stack as everyone else and significant # of BB's
2. Latereg to a deepstack/slower paced tournament where you're up against huge stacks and have few BB's.

There should be space for both formats, especially if the strategy is focused around the recreational :)

of course it is significiant but in these field on Unibet many players/recs.dont care ... they dont care late reg in shooting with 10BB so ... 20-25BB in 8min levels have some power ... You should play more nano's;0  very often in late reg with couples BB i easily reached top3 :)  

For  me also @testuser1  Unibet Monthly Mission are waste of time ...  no value at all... you can lost couple  Euro  for 1000GTD/3000GTD freeroll ticket  ...which is hyper + huge field and real value is small ... especially 3k should be with some decent structure ... but propably many people who can count see this :)

"Small opportunities are often the beginning of great enterprises."
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@testuser1 one thing in separete post ...

remeber if you have hourly turbos/hyper ...  even shooting  it is a problem for recs. playing 3,4,5h if they're playing ie.

18:00 Falling 

19:00 singularity 

20:00 Some Multiverse + wormhole or smth else...

when they finish a multiverse than ... Falling Sky is in FT stage ;)

Im also not fun focus on one table ...  when i;m playing nanos at the same time im watching a film, i have tables in the corners...  when im playing 0.5e Comet (6h+ nanos) 19:00 ... i also start with it ... deep impact, nano abyss 20;00,  nano titan, nano gargle later  ... now i can play every hour 0.2e qualifers ...  so formally these 3-5h is not so important because most of them probably play a lot of games in a few hours ... 

 edit: When i have periods o Stars ... i havent problem playing BIG 0.55, 1.1, 2.2  and when  im boring then i lunch  some hyper/turbo formats ... 

So i think with some flagship/normal-slow MTT should also stars  quicker formats... even Shooting 1e-2e at 19:00, 20;00. In diffrent types:  re-entry, r/a,r/a.  Bounty with 75% prize pool ...   The problem with Falling now is beacuse there is no choice  ... 

"Small opportunities are often the beginning of great enterprises."
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@Mynona wrote:

@Leo-Unibet  @Patric-Unibet @JeppeL @testuser1

hey everyone :)

So, i saw that the stack and levels changed for the bounty tournaments since yesterday.

As an example: the 1 € bounty tournament was 3k starting stack and 4 min levels. With 265 players, It took about 2h30-2h40 to finish and it is very popular in general (garantees are always met for months now).  The change is 5k starting stack and 8 min levels now and it is an absolute disaster in terms of length of tournament.

There is a tournament that started round noon today with 275 players so its a good base for comparison with 265 players in the old format:  we are already 4h30 in the game and it is still NOT finished.

So basically, this change is gonna make the tournaments nearly twice as long and i don't understand how this change is a good one for fun players ??  I do'nt want to play nearly 5 hours for a 1€ bounty tournament ! i play for entertainment and its not fun when its becoming that long: it becomes  a grind/work rather than a nice experience.  

While i understand some players want to play longer to have a better variance, i dont think this is the right move for a lot of fun players: there should still be average tournaments to choose from for some "lighter" players on unibet.

In general, the tendency for a year now is to:

- have more and more 6-max (i personally hate that format so the choice is getting smaller by the minute)

- have longer tournaments with bigger stack and bigger levels, even the old ones being shorter are getting changed little by little

- have more and more rebuy/addons/re-entry and what not,  that all add time to the length of tournament

I start to really not like the fact there are no alternative anymore.  And no, i don't think Hexapro is filling the blanks for shorter games.

One of the reason i played exclusively on unibet for 3 years is for fun tournaments, not too much addon/rebuy, and not too long to play. And now, Unibet is going exactly in the opposite direction and looking more and more like pokerstars/partypoker/bwin/etc.... If you are a regular, you don't mind playing for hours and its perfectly ok but i really thought unibet would also think of the other players like me who don't want to spend the whole day/night playing only one/two small buyin tournaments.

I'm not gonna enter a debate about "variance is better in long tournaments.....you can play better poker..... you don't know whats good for you, etc....."  because believe it or not, i don't care too much about this:  i just want to play an hour or two and have fun and the new format of most tournaments are going away from that more and more.   Not everybody plays for the absolute nuts value in poker.

I'm not a pro, i'm not living from poker, i just want to have fun from time to time.

Anyway, i told you it would be unpopular opinion but this last change was too much for me to just keep quiet so i'm trying to express a different opinion of most of you in this forum (for the last time probably, will go back to lurking after  :p)

Fire away in the comments guys & girls, or not ... :)

Last thing:  @Leo-Unibet    would it be possible for you to create a thread where you mention the changes you are doing to the tournaments in term of guarantees, stack, levels lengths, etc...  I notice it changes regularly every 2-3 weeks for some tournaments and it would be nice to have one place where we can look and have directly the right info and the occasion to express our opinions ? you have done that for some main things like the UOS or UO/UK your but not for all the  other tournaments. It would make it clearer and also give a better general view of where unibet is going in terms of guarantees and tournament structures.

 

 @Mynona First of all, thanks for your inputs, inputs like this is super valuable for us to having a better understanding on what att the players think of the tournament offering, perfect. I try to have a good balance in long, short, 6 handed 9 handed for all different buyins, so the offering is attractive for as many players as possible. With that also comes low buyin tournaments which will last for 3,5-4 hours, not just the higher buyins should have the option to play tournaments with "nice"  structure. I don't agree that we are moveing more towards 6-handed, it's a nice mix of both 9/6 handed.

 

The reason I started with these changes is so it should be easier for players if all tournaments with a specific namn has the same setup. Not like it's been for some time now that some "Shooting Star" had 2000 chips and 4 minutes and some 4000 and 8 minutes, with the changes (adding Falling Star) it will be easier to "understand" the schedule. I have a few more tournament-themes I will change and then we will have a much more comprehending offering.

 

When  all this is done I will create a thread here for everyone to see. The schedule will never be static, it's always options for making it better, and it wont be possible without the player communities inputs, so please have ideas posted here and we will always evaluate to see if changes can be done.

Thanks! 


 

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@Leo-Unibet   thank you for taking the time to read my post and answer.👍

I really hope that when you say you have a few more tournament theme ideas, it will also translate to bounty tournaments that have the same structure as before (and therefore don't last more than 2.5-3h) for small buyin 1-2 €

I liked @Leatherman suggestion  about having a slow-normal-fast structure for Bounties. (for small buyin)

I also think @VikingsAF idea about quick MTT is interesting (see here  https://www.unibetcommunity.com/t5/Unibet-Idea-Exchange/Quick-MTT-s-with-max-players/idc-p/209095#M2057

In the past, like i mentioned in my thread, there were those 18 players tournaments, starting when 18 players registered.  If i remember well, those disappeared because there was a problem with the network/servers.  Are those problems solved ?

This 'on demand/only start when full" type of registration would allow to offer a much larger structure choice and it would only run if enough people are interested: great way to test different types of mtt's.

I'm eager to see the result of your thinking and all the new/changed offering/theme tournaments coming up soon. :)

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  • 2 weeks later...

@Leo-Unibet@Patric-Unibet@JeppeL @testuser1

Could we at least have one 1€ bounty NLHE tournament being a shooting and not a falling one ?

There are zero shooting bounty NLHE at that price (except one omaha round noon), and zero at 2€ :(

Bounty tournament could start each hour/2 hours at that level of buyin  and it should be able to make one or two a quicker one ?  all that is left are tournament taking 6 hours to finish :(

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I think tourneys with buy-ins from €1 to €5 should be finished within 2-3 hours. 

However the more serious tournaments , buy-ins €5 to €50 should have a solid deepstack structure , for the more serious players. You want to play for 4-5 hours to reach the final table. Thanks. 

 

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