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New poker loyalty system 1st of July - First official details


Stubbe-Unibet

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  • 2 weeks later...
  • 2 weeks later...

Hey!

Will there be rake carry overs?
Let's just say I'll make 22055€ rake in Q3, which is 1500 more than 20555 (which will be I guess 7-3 or 7-4) but probably less than the next level. It would be reaaly stupid for me to make those last 1500 rake for just 18% rakeback, knowing that I'll can't make it to the next step.  
But obv if that rake will count in Q4 than it's no problem

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@Beckham087, apologies for the slow reply, I have been off the last two days.

No, there wont be carry-over in that regard. Below the different levels and required rake:

LevelRake StepRake Total% Increase
 1                    -   
1-1         1.25               1.25100%
1-2         1.25               2.5050%
1-3         1.25               3.7533%
2         1.25               5.0025%
2-1         5.00             10.0050%
2-2         5.00             15.0033%
2-3         5.00             20.0025%
3         5.00             25.0020%
3-1       20.00             45.0044%
3-2       20.00             65.0031%
3-3       20.00             85.0024%
4       20.00            105.0019%
4-1     125.00            230.0054%
4-2     125.00            355.0035%
4-3     125.00            480.0026%
5     125.00            605.0021%
5-1     400.00         1,005.0040%
5-2     400.00         1,405.0028%
5-3     400.00         1,805.0022%
6     400.00         2,205.0018%
6-1   1,700.00         3,905.0044%
6-2   1,700.00         5,605.0030%
6-3   1,700.00         7,305.0023%
7   1,700.00         9,005.0019%
7-1   3,850.00       12,855.0030%
7-2   3,850.00       16,705.0023%
7-3   3,850.00       20,555.0019%
7-4   3,850.00       24,405.0016%
7-5   3,850.00       28,255.0014%
7-6   3,850.00       32,105.0012%
7-7   3,850.00       35,955.0011%
7-8   3,850.00       39,805.0010%
7-9   3,850.00       43,655.009%

Check the latest poker release notes. Have a look at our poker promotions

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  • 2 weeks later...

@P0kerM0nk @FreedoM

New gambling laws in Germany are calling for a 5.3 % turnover tax, starting on July 1st. If this laws goes through, this has huge implications on the Unibet player pool as Unibet would then have to make a decision on whether to still offer Poker to German players (probably only SNGs and MTTs) or move out of the German market completely.

Since such a decision has implications on the loyalty system as well, you'll now have to wait a little.

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We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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1 hour ago, WuDu said:

@P0kerM0nk @FreedoM

New gambling laws in Germany are calling for a 5.3 % turnover tax, starting on July 1st. If this laws goes through, this has huge implications on the Unibet player pool as Unibet would then have to make a decision on whether to still offer Poker to German players (probably only SNGs and MTTs) or move out of the German market completely.

Since such a decision has implications on the loyalty system as well, you'll now have to wait a little.

For customer or unibet? Sorry, aint't have such problems so dunno what this means

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12 minutes ago, Livertool said:

For customer or unibet? Sorry, aint't have such problems so dunno what this means

 

Well, who's bearing the tax burden in the end depends on the elasticity of the demand and the elasticity of the supply for online poker in Germany.

1024px-Tax_incidence_(mixed).svg.png

I'm sure, Unibet's best Public Finance Economists are already on the case computing the most efficient way to deal with these potential new tax regulations:

giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47cpii7be1ykxspbsbru

giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47cpii7be1ykxspbsbru

giphy.gif?cid=ecf05e47n85zhr2vxwvc8x4e7c

😀

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We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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1 hour ago, WuDu said:

 

Well, who's bearing the tax burden in the end depends on the elasticity of the demand and the elasticity of the supply for online poker in Germany.

1024px-Tax_incidence_(mixed).svg.png

I'm sure, Unibet's best Public Finance Economists are already on the case computing the most efficient way to deal with these potential new tax regulations:

 

What i wanted to know was that are you paying the bill with paying tax on your withdraws or is unibet doing it for you and hence giving shit promos? 

 

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I can't really comment on the German situation at this moment. Hopefully, the regulator will realize that this just doesn't work for poker, and a compromise will be made for this product - to me it seems obvious that poker hasn't been considered at all.

However, if that doesn't happen, it'll obviously have huge consequences for the German market - the tax is higher than the fees for cash games.... 

In regards to tournaments, I see 3 possible outcomes:

- All disabled (no poker for German customers)

- We disable SNG's and we take the hit (this can only be done if we're to solely consider poker an acquisition tool, as there'll obviously be no money in it for us). This would mean loyalty being disabled and Germany excluded from all monetary rewards.

- We disable SNG's and let the customers pay the new tax. 

Which one it'll be, I simply can't say at this stage. We'll of course let you guys know on here as the first, as soon as a decision has been made.

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Check the latest poker release notes. Have a look at our poker promotions

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10 minutes ago, Livertool said:

What i wanted to know was that are you paying the bill with paying tax on your withdraws or is unibet doing it for you and hence giving shit promos? 

 

 

😄

@Livertool

The state plans to collect from Unibet based on the turnover, not withdrawals. E.g. I play an SNG10, that's a turnover of 10 Euro, the tax man now goes to Unibet and demands 5,3 % of the 10 Euro I spent, which amounts to 53 cent for just 1 SNG at the 10 Euro level. 20 games at the SNG25 level would amount to over 25 Euro just in taxes. 🤮

Of course, that's pure madness, so the question is whether Unibet stays in the market or leaves. 

@Stubbe-Unibet

Why would you disable SNGs? Don't you mean cash games?

Edited by WuDu
We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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3 minutes ago, WuDu said:

Why would you disable SNGs? Don't you mean cash games?

Because of the low fee (and traffic) - if we let the customer take the hit, no customer will play them anyway. Cash games will be disabled no matter what, if the turnover tax is implemented.

Check the latest poker release notes. Have a look at our poker promotions

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5 minutes ago, WuDu said:

 

😄

@Livertool

The state plans to collect from Unibet based on the turnover, not withdrawals. E.g. I play an SNG10, that's a turnover of 10 Euro, the tax man now goes to Unibet and demands 5,3 % of the 10 Euro I spent, which amounts to 53 cent for just 1 SNG at the 10 Euro level. 20 games at the SNG25 level would amount to over 25 Euro just in taxes. 🤮

Of course, that's pure madness, so the question is whether Unibet stays in the market or leaves. 

@Stubbe-Unibet

Why would you disable SNGs? Don't you mean cash games?

Ok. Didn't know that. But how taxman know what you play? Unibet has to give that info to them?

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@Livertool

Probably, but you'd have to ask one of the employees for that...

@Stubbe-Unibet

Now I see! Have you thought about offering SNG tickets to Germans which would include the tax or parts of it?

We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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  • 2 weeks later...
On 4/25/2021 at 12:03 AM, Livertool said:

Ain't EU all about free trade, infact that is most important thing keeping this nonsense together? Well, whatever, all things come to end one day. Hint: don't buy any casino stocks 😀

 

https://www.egba.eu/news-post/germany-online-casino-tax-would-advantage-land-based-operators-in-breach-of-eu-state-aid-rules/

At least Unibet is a member here.

Hooray for lobbying groups! 🤢 And maybe the community mods won't get rid of me again...😁

Quote

EGBA has already shared its concerns about the proposed tax measure with the European Commission. Should the tax measure be adopted as proposed, EGBA will consider all options, including filing a formal state aid complaint with the European Commission. The European Commission has previously determined that differentiated tax treatment between online and land-based casinos qualifies as a state aid under EU law.[6] In that Danish case, the Commission concluded that a lower tax rate for online casino was justified by the overall consumer protection objectives of creating a regulated and safe online environment, in view of the inevitable competition with the unregulated online market.

What is that Danish case? Isn't Danish poker regulated to death as well?

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We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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4 hours ago, WuDu said:

 

https://www.egba.eu/news-post/germany-online-casino-tax-would-advantage-land-based-operators-in-breach-of-eu-state-aid-rules/

At least Unibet is a member here.

Hooray for lobbying groups! 🤢 And maybe the community mods won't get rid of me again...😁

What is that Danish case? Isn't Danish poker regulated to death as well?

Everone wants piece of gamblers :As::5s::5s:, like gambling itself wouldn't be hard to profit already 

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@Livertool

Especially since the whole cake would vastly shrink with such a taxation plan. Unless the government wants German players to play on unregulated sites...

giphy.gif

 

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We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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On 5/6/2021 at 5:54 PM, WuDu said:

What is that Danish case? Isn't Danish poker regulated to death as well?

Yes, when the Danish market was re-regulated, a lower tax was introduced on online operators than brick and mortar casinos. The tax rate not being the same for offline and online is what was challenged.

Check the latest poker release notes. Have a look at our poker promotions

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  • 3 weeks later...

How exactly are you going to calculate the value of carry-over challenge points?

I've usually made between 1,250,000 to 1,500,000 points per quarter.
In the past if I did not reach 1,500,000 points in one quarter it was not that bad as these carry-over points made it easier to reach that level next quarter.

If I don't reach 1,500,000 points this quarter are you going to value my carry-over points based on the 1,250,000 - 1,500,000 level or will you value my carry-over points based on 0 - 250,000 level?

There is a huge difference in these scenarios and I think the former would be more fair.

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