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Gathering player pool data


Onefloatyboi

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Something that has been on my mind for a while now while playing on Unibet:

Are you allowed to gather player pool data in a way that doesn't use external software, scripts or whatever?
For instance, can you have a spreadsheet with notes of opponents, with or without their aliases if it is not gathered by an automatic program, but just by you playing or going through hand histories? 

Can you share this information with other players? Or does this fall under 'collusion'? According to Unibet's poker rules "Collusion is a situation where two or more players attempt to earn an unfair advantage by sharing knowledge of their cards or other information at the poker table." 

Would it, for instance, be possible to have a study group with likeminded people that also play on Unibet (regarding they don't softplay or chipdump or anything else when they are seated together)? Because that would fall under collusion if I'm interpreting the rules correctly? However, studying together (which inevitably involves sharing gathered player information in some way) seems to me to not be an 'unfair' advantage but rather a 'fair' advantage.

Also, hands with screenshots and visible aliases are shared on this forum regularly, entire tournaments are streamed on twitch and you can open up any table while a tournament is playing to 'rail' your friends or see what is happening on a bubble for instance.

I'm not looking to exploit the rules or anything shady like that. This is just a genuine question from someone who is interested in getting better at the game but also willing to play by the local rules (even though some others probably don't). I'm really interested in finding out what Unibet representatives have to say about this. Unibet is such a unique playing environment so I wonder what would be permitted and what not, and how it compares to other networks.

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@Onefloatyboi for a start how could they stop you from doing whatever you like on a spreadsheet, second you obviously know it’s not right if you are having to ask and finally it would be pointless anyway people can have 4 or 5 aliases and you don’t know who is who so why waste your time? 

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What does "you obviously know it’s not right if you are having to ask" even mean if you're so convinced it is pointless? 

It is far from obvious what is allowed and what is not. Study groups and sharing data/information happens a lot on other networks, whether it is against the terms or not. Take for instance a poker course or coaching website, the coaches usually expose data/information they gathered on certain player pools and thus are sharing it with other players for them to benefit from (and even ask a lot of money for it). But if you would share and discuss similar data/information in a study group for instance you are saying it is "not right"? I'm not following what you're saying..

I'm not interested in knowing if and how Unibet will enforce these rules, that is for them to decide and probably best to keep secret. Many other networks are very non-transparent in the way they respond to these type of things. But Unibet has this forum so I might as well ask, right?

 

 

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I believe the rule you quoted is referring only to in play sharing. Like hey friend I have aces, or hey friend you should fold this hand cause I'll play, or hey friend I see you're thinking hard on this decision with your current hand, you should do this. These are all not allowed, and the first 2 are somewhat easy to detect if they happen a lot. Sharing databases has been a touchy subject on other sites but I don't see how stopping it could ever be enforced. I'm assuming since it has such a smaller impact on unibet due to non automated tools and changing aliases it wouldn't be much of a problem sharing some notes or info, but it would still be kinda rude to post a 5 page manifesto on the forum of how a certain player plays, unless it's @IanSimpson 🤣 

An official answer would obviously clear things up more, but on the sharing notes things it seems like such a gray area to have an official statement, like ah this guy is a nit, or I've seen this guy fold this hand, or icm suicider and other throwaway comments are probably very acceptable, but sharing a repository of hundreds of hands and large amounts of notes and stats compiled to ave a clear image of his game quickly becomes somewhat unethical.

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@FeelsBadMan  Hehe I get what you're saying. I'm not looking to target singular players by collecting/sharing mass data on them, just interested to do some research on population tendencies since that is what any self-respecting grinder should do at some point IMO. As a Belgian I'm currently trying to make a decision whether to keep grinding Unibet without rakeback or move to another network. If I'm officially not allowed to study the player pool in any way that will make my decision a lot easier ;) 
I'm also talking about MTTs rather than cash games (which I think is a much larger player pool than the cash game or SNG pool).

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I think that sharing of everything must be forbidden, also must be forbidden using software during playing even if software doesnt interract with unibet.

For example read rules of partypoker, where is forbidden everything (virtual machine software, teamviewer, opened solvers during playing etc). It would be cool if unibet will make same rules 

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You're not allowed to gather any information by use of 3rd party software, and you're not allowed to share player notes and details either, regardless if these are collected by manually typing the information in an Excel sheet.

Won't be very valuable either, due to the alias change option - I'd personally like to encourage (or even force) alias change more than we're today, so in the future it'll likely have even less value.

It'll be handled case by case, and a comment about a player in a Twitch chat is totally fine. There's a big difference between this and having a shared doc with notes.

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@Stubbe-Unibet Yeah, perhaps having to pick a new alias every time you log in will make the player pool fully anonymous without having to resort to random names like Player1558623 :atisfied: . It's a bit weird that people are so spooked by someone asking if it's possible to take notes on players, and then at the same time state that it will be useless. That sounds very contradictory to me. But anyway, the main reason I made this post is because I wanted to know if Unibet's position on this stuff is similar to other networks or not, and from your comment I think I can assume so.

@Sweeedeeen How can you forbid all software though, can you not watch twitch, youtube or facebook anymore while playing? Can you not have your work opened in the background? That would be impossible to enforce.. And if you want to play in an environment that is safe from this, go play live 😃 . Other networks just have a list of forbidden software (including screen capturing for instance, to recognize cards) and try to find out if certain scripts/software are interacting with the software client.

@f1v3h34dMaking some random accusations there? I play a lot of live poker as well so I have no intention of not playing by the rules. Just wanted to know if Unibet's position is similar to other networks because their philosophy differs from the mainstream networks.

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