General mechanics, RNG in online slots ...

[pinki]

@RayL   As in subject.  I am so curious. obviously my earlier look was wrong :)

path:  Casino  -> Provider(ie. Big Time Gaming)

 

[psrquack]

I'm also curios about RNG at online poker. I have this but I need more adequate answer:

Any thoughts @Leo-Unibet , @RayL , @JeppeL or other employee?

[pinki]

@psrquack  Topic is about Online slots! 🤣 

[psrquack]

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@pinki wrote:

@psrquack  Topic is about Online slots! 🤣 

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I thought the three points means and poker.😀

Sorry for spamming your topic.

BN-EZ577_rubber_EA_20141014045404

[pinki]

@pinki, the RNG for slot games is on the game providers end  the providers usually have more details on their website. NetEnt example here: https://www.netent.com/en/responsible-gaming/

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@Stubbe-Unibet  it's @RayL   fault :Rofl: when he showed footer from Unibet Site with RNG then I started to draw strange conclusions :)  My entire slots philosophy has been destroyed by one screenshot :Wonder:

[Livertool]

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@pinki wrote:

@pinki, the RNG for slot games is on the game providers end  the providers usually have more details on their website. NetEnt example here: https://www.netent.com/en/responsible-gaming/

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@Stubbe-Unibet  it's @RayL   fault :Rofl: when he showed footer from Unibet Site with RNG then I started to draw strange conclusions :)  My entire slots philosophy has been destroyed by one screenshot :Wonder:

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But casinos can set their rtp for slots, right? And rtp goes hand in hand with rng? Idk if they can set themselves or ask provider or what not but anyways. 

[Livertool]

And your intruction page in play n go slots seem to be on vacation 😛

[FeelsBadMan]

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@Livertool wrote:

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But casinos can set their rtp for slots, right? And rtp goes hand in hand with rng? Idk if they can set themselves or ask provider or what not but anyways. 

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I'm just making a lot of assumptions here from a coding/math perspective. 

I would imagine that RTP wouldn't have anything to do with the RNG and they would be 2 separate things that work together, just as any other 2 elements of a program have to work together to have a complete functioning program. So like let's say you would have an RTP scroll bar that you can set that goes from 99% to idk 1%, that would influence other scroll bars automatically to fit in that RTP, like a bar to idk give a bonus round x% of the time, a bar to give a 3 line a bar for 4 line, idk the slots terminologies. Having those probabilities generated then the game would make a call to the RNG and ask for a random number let's say between 1 and 8597 if that's the % determined by the rtp , and one of those numbers is predetermined to be a huge jackpot before making the call. If those 2 numbers match then bang jackpot, and then more calls to determine the size between number and number, or random flashy bits that are just for fun. This is just how I would think I would implement it just thinking about it for a minute, idk the actual implementation and I'm sure there are more efficient ways.  

When many people think of RNG they probably actually think of the implementation of the first thing rather than the actual number generator, so how the certain outcomes are determined, that being by having certain percenteges for every outcome, and those percenteges should pretty much be just automatically generatated though math to just fit that magic rtp number, obviously with some constraints like maybe you want more bonus rounds for this game but smaller value or whatnot. Ultimately the math behind those percenteges doesn't matter at all as long as the rtp number is verifiebly true (which can be tested (and probably is by multiple 3'rd parties) by making extreme sample size calls to see what it gives back, like in the trillions of "spins"). I would assume poker works in a very similar fashion, just with stricter rules (the rules of the game) and no need for an rtp slider as the money is deducted separately and would also not make any sense within the rules of the game.

As for the actual number generator, the only worry that can be with it is if it can be "cracked" if some person could find a way to determine all the next numbers that are to be generated (if they can even know all the variables that go into it), the way the number is generated, the algorithm it uses shouldn't matter at all as long as it's random enough, and in 2019 I would doubt they would use a crap algorithm. And cracking weak RNG methods has been done before, but I would think making sure having an extremely good RNG to be a massive priority for a casino where someone cracking it could cost them tons in the casino games. Of course there could be multiple RNG sources, like I assume the RNG of each slot game comes from the provider (very not sure about that), the poker (and their own inhouse slots)  RNG from relax or maybe some 3'rd party provider that gives this service to relax.      

[Livertool]

Hurts my head when i try figure rng out :waterfall: Old school slots with actual fysical reels is so much easier to understand.

I just thought if we have same slot, one rtp 96% and other 94% ,don't you have to fumble rng in order to other slot paying fewer times or smaller wins? So in that way they go hand in hand, i guess ???

I would imagine that rng for poker i much easier to do as there ain't so much to consider. Just make 52 cards to pop up randomly :laugh:

[FeelsBadMan]

 I guess in a way it's easier in the sense that there are no settings for poker, just the rules of the game, nothing else to calculate (although generating a deck form a set of numbers that you have to request also requires some simple calculations), but it's pretty much the same thing, you have an algorithm that asks for random numbers from the RNG and then those random numbers get used in whatever way the rules of the game needs to use them. As for the random number that is requested idk if it does a standard random between x and y call or just gets a random large number (or small) and uses that as a seed to generate other numbers in a useable format for the specific need (I'd think the latter is more likely). As long as the seed number can't be known by someone, the result obtained by using that seed can't either. 

If a dev were to come in here and actually explain the entire algorithm without dumbing it down and shortening it and making analogies, it would probably make all our heads spin :laugh:

[Livertool]

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@FeelsBadMan wrote:

 

If a dev were to come in here and actually explain the entire algorithm without dumbing it down and shortening it and making analogies, it would probably make all our heads spin :laugh:

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Yeah, i tried to watch some videos where they explained rng in slots and i am pretty sure i had small stroke :scared:

Good thingy i don't have to worry about that. I just click spin button again, again, again, again.....

[GR1ZZL3R]

Some explanations hurt my head.

[pinki]

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@FeelsBadMan wrote:

@FeelsBadMan wrote:

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As for the actual number generator, the only worry that can be with it is if it can be "cracked" if some person could find a way to determine all the next numbers that are to be generated (if they can even know all the variables that go into it), the way the number is generated, the algorithm it uses shouldn't matter at all as long as it's random enough, and in 2019 I would doubt they would use a crap algorithm. And cracking weak RNG methods has been done before, but I would think making sure having an extremely good RNG to be a massive priority for a casino where someone cracking it could cost them tons in the casino games. Of course there could be multiple RNG sources, like I assume the RNG of each slot game comes from the provider (very not sure about that), the poker (and their own inhouse slots)  RNG from relax or maybe some 3'rd party provider that gives this service to relax.     

  

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@FeelsBadMan  Agree. I think recent RNG's are solid. People do not understand many things  and when they lose they start to fall into paranoia. 

I heard from the contracts between  casinos and providers are drawn on the basis of whether the provider incur losses or profits. But on the other hand, the casino also needs winning players for obvious reasons. But I am convinced that we are dealing with the words here: Random, Luck.  If someone thinks that the provider is focused on a player individually  is wrong. There is simply no need for this and they can lose too much if strange things leak out. These are not companies with  2 programmers , 1 administrator and boss on the ship :)

[Livertool]

I didn't mean any paranoia with my question, just out of interest cause it seems to be (at least some cases) different markets with different rtps so i was just wondering can casinos set their own rtps without any limits, is it market based or something like that....

....and soon stubbe comes with create new thread as rtp has nothing to do with rng :laugh: