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GR1ZZL3R Rank 23
Rank 23

Literally in the last 5 minutes.

Screenshot (388).pngScreenshot (389).png 

It's not always what you've got that counts, it's what they've got that has a large bearing on profitability or otherwise. Waterfall

It Is What It Is
MetalWolf Rank 19
Rank 19

Thanks @GR1ZZL3R I think I am going to give it a go when I'm ready.

I know how many hands they say in holdem etc and I think I would agree with that at a high level where the more skillful people will play. At the levels I can afford to play I always think people who say that believe they should be beating the game but aren't in profit, and can't admit defeat or go back to study more. There are so many people still around those levels making consistant mistakes over and over. I suspect the overall level of PLO is worse than holdem too. If I played 300,000 hands at 10PLO and was down I would accept I can't beat the game and need to improve. I would accept it long before that. Variance or not there will be 1000's of oppurtunities in that time to be able to pick off a weaker player with the 'right bet' or just squeeze that little bit extra out of someone to counter the times when you will get coolered. Even the odd 10cents here and there improvement is going to help counter overall variance. I want to focus on that side.

I'm not sure what a good performer looks like at that level though. ROI? BB per hour rate? It's going to be interesting. 

I will almost certainly struggle mentally with the swings. Always have always will so thats a big risk. 


GR1ZZL3R Rank 23
Rank 23

@MetalWolf I've just come off the cash tables after what's definitely been an up and down session. Twenty minutes in and I was about €40 down, (I won't go into details Sad) 4 tabling 5-10c. In the past I would have screamed and thrown a hissy fit but the "New Improved GR1ZZL3R" stuck at it and finished "only" €20 down, but still just up on the week. Smile I really think I'm coming to terms with the mental battle, slowly but surely, there is so much positive info out there these days. I've seen the good and bad today as usual, and it really is worth pursuing the mental battle if you have faith in yourself. I think the biggest mistake I see over and over and over again is that players are willing to go all in with top pair, especially Ax, and in PLO you see players overvalue under straights and non nut flushes day after day. 

From what I can see you should be aiming to roughly double your win rate at PLO compared with NLHE but that's only a couple of opinions. Are you going public with your results? If so, don't do it too soon.

Best of luck. Thumbs Up


It Is What It Is
MetalWolf Rank 19
Rank 19

Cheers @GR1ZZL3R . I shall defo be looking at all advice I can with the mental game. I won’t be diving in too soon I have a lot of reading to do. Also got to set some targets on what I want to achieve. Moving up and down levels etc. I class myself as a fairly competent plo player - certainly above average but depending on what mental state I’m in I will also be the one overvaluing little straights and flushes. 

I will , of course, be going public with results Very Happy

Rushbie Rank 22
Rank 22

Reading stuff won't necessarily make you better at gaining money at plo tourneys. So many times the classic fail imo is when ppl don't have the courage to gamble at pressure moments, when they should.

Gamblers 4life 😀


"Wise men know their limits. Great men have no limits."
MetalWolf Rank 19
Rank 19

@Rushbie  That’s what I tell myself about that hand I posted the other day 



MetalWolf Rank 19
Rank 19

Won two tournaments today and come 2nd in a community game and still minus profit for the day Rofl

Freeroll still counts... lol 


KrustyTheClown Rank 14
Rank 14

@MetalWolf wrote:

Incidentally I'm looking for a bit of advice on PLO cash if anyone can help.

I hate cash. Historically I've been terrible at it, it bores me, I tilt easily and I generally have no interest in it. However, I seem to be very comfy at the 10PLO tables and making money from them over the course of this year but I'm mindful that I don't play for that long or that many hands.

How many hands should of be looking at to get a good feel for wether I'm a winning player? What's a good hourly win rate for PLO? What's people's overall feeling on the strength of the various player pools on Unibet?

Obviously I would have to change the way I record it and measure it because my current method is not fit for purpose.

It is maybe something I will look at playing more seriously next year. I love PLO and would love to be an expert at it. 

Hey @MetalWolf.
I have played at least 200k hands of PLO cash at Unibet, mostly at 10PLO, also a bit of 4PLO and 25PLO.
I would say 50K hands already gives you a good idea.
But more importantly you should get a feel from the game itself if it is juicy or not.
Are you winning cause you win the unavoidable flips or are you cause people are going bonkers with for example bottom 2 pair?

A few things about the PLO game on Unibet:
- The general skill level compared to NL is way lower.
- People love to gamble. It will be easy to spot those ofc
- A significant portion of the players has virtually no bluffing range on later streets.
- People give huge sizing tells. On wet boards a bet under potsize is rarely ever strong.
- Most of the pool does not have a good starting range. Overplaying double suited crap is a major leak I often see.
- ...



MetalWolf Rank 19
Rank 19


Nice one mate thanks for that. Some really good info there. Looks positive too in terms in being able to win at that level. 

I'm looking forward to testing this out. 

mathew1982 Rank 9
Rank 9

Yeah i agree with you

Definitely and more probably u are facing weak player here

Also, with u best luck, poker and especially mtt tournaments can be very cruel and swing are often very hard to handle mentally

i know it by myself, i one month i am crushing the tourney and feel like poker is greatest thing ever, then i cannot win a single flip and feel like  worst player ever

Dont let this affect you, i lost so much because i was tilted from these swings

Also, i am still making tons of mistakes, because its different to analyze hand after, or be forced to make sudden decision

I wish u good luck at poker tables