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Blog: Let's play one or two, or 200k sngs


monkeyheaven

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Thought something like that. I was wondering if reaching the 1.25M points to win a UO package would be possible for some sng grinders, but it doesn’t seem attainable unless the 50+ games would run all day too.

I think I got to 350k once, and average at about 200k. But my volume is a lot lower than yours off course, as I mostly play only 3-4 tables

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@Caladrias, Think I got 400k one month that a promo was running, so that would be about pace to hit 1.25m, but I was exhausted by the end of the month, don’t think I could do three months of that.

I did run the numbers on how feasible it would be to get to the magic 1.25m. I think almost impossible for a sng grinder; would need not just the 50s (which only take €1.5, so not much different from a 25 at €1.25) but really the 100s to run a lot. Don’t see that ever happening. 

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Hi,

Nice read:)

I have a few questions for you.

Didnt see you write about how you keep track of your profit/hands/tournaments if Unibet is ''Hud free'' so to say?

Also how do you stack your tables and do you use hot-keys? Also if you finish one sng during a session do you reg another shortly after or wait until most of your 12-14 sng-s are finished?

Just trying to figure out how to best multitable as much as you. Thanks for explaining:)

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  • 2 weeks later...

@PinchePablo, thanks for the questions, you can request results from unibet, so you can keep track of profit this way.  It’s not ideal, as it’s not as detailed as the data HM2 can generate, but it’s all we’ve got and I can live with that.  I’ve previously generated millions of hh on other sites and used that to analyse my play so it certainly helps to have that before playing on unibet. 

Im not doing anything special with regard to multitabling, I’m playing about 12 tables at once, I reg another as soon as I bust, so it’s continuous 12 tables.  

I have a huge amount of experience of playing these games, not to say that I’m playing perfectly, I’m certainly not, but I’m rarely in a spot where I hesitate, so getting more experienced will help with playing more tables.  Also, simplifying certain spots (eg the EV of flatting a raise might be similar to the EV of reshoving, I would tend to lean towards reshoving to reduce the number of decisions required in the hand).  If you can stick to one buyin level (I don’t) that helps; it’s harder to get decent reads if you’re playing a larger player pool.    

On stars when I could play with all kinds of 3rd party software, I was 22 tabling 6 max turbos, so 12 tabling without software feels quite relaxing for me. 

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  • 4 months later...

Been a while since I updated, been on a fairly spirit crushing breakeven run for last couple months.  Nothing unusual, been on much much worse runs on stars, but I’m so used to just winning since I’ve been playing on unibet, so it’s come as a nasty surprise.  Have dropped the highest stakes games to reduce variance for a bit, things seem to be turning round so should add them back soon enough.

GTO vs exploitative play:  This seems to be the topic of the moment, so what’s best in unibets 5man sngs? 

I’ve done some work this year with PIOsolver (a postflop GTO solver program).  It’s certainly been an eye opener, and it’s improved my strategy with regards to betsizes and what hands might be best to use as bluff candidates, for example.  I regard it as a good online coach; worth listening to, but impossible to emulate in every way, and not familiar with population tendencies in my games.  You are able to define some of your opponent tendencies in PIO, so we can build a GTO strategy vs a fish and this is certainly informative, but it doesn’t capture all the exploitable tendencies of fish, and applying one GTO strategy is impossible for a human, never mind applying multiple GTO strategies for each player type.

Many of the prominent voices in poker advocate a GTO approach because they play in tough highstakes lineups where it is most appropriate to play GTO and they are often highly interested in selling their knowledge on to players.  In games populated by weak players (hello, unibet 5mans) an exploitative approach will always be more successful, but it’s tough to teach an exploitative strategy without an understanding of specific population tendencies.  If you’re interested in reaching highstakes these days you probably need to be attempting to approach GTO, but reality is most of us will never get there (I accepted this long ago).   Also, unlike cash/mtts, sngs have ICM considerations from the first hand, something that PIOsolver is not able to account for.

Reg rankings; this is not a full list,forgot some screennames.  Onechugdoug seems very good, I’d guess he’s better than me, close though as he def makes some small mistakes but I certainly do too.  Not seen IanSimpson at sngs recently, not sure if he’s quit them, shame if he has as it’s always good to have someone promoting them.  The names above Ian are all solid players imo, and below him is a mix of very average predictable players and ones with glaring leaks. 

  1. Onechugdoug
  2. Runbetter
  3. Caladrias
  4. Tedwina
  5. Spr
  6. Iansimpson
  7. jordycroux
  8. IkerC1
  9. Crazyfusz
  10. Mervinjminky
  11. TonnyP1
  12. Csaiklacika
  13. Sect7G
  14. Fromri 
  15. Vilunki 
  16. Kroll
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  • 2 weeks later...

So are you changing your nick or sticking to same one? 

Imo unibet does lot of thing nicely with sng. Rake is low even if rakeback is not that great. Though I suppose its good compared to e.g. stars these days. Structure is very good in that it keeps playable stack depth for good amount of time and wont go up in big steps. Yet games are still pretty fast to complete. I played few years ago in partypoker and if I remember right there was some huge step in blinds where stacks leaped to being mainly shove stacks. Antes from beginning would be ok but its fine either way as to keep games better for weaker players no ante will favour them.

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@Ghaleon, yeah I change my screename, often multiple times within a session. I’m not sure if there’s players using HUDs illegally, and some regs get reads fairly quickly. 

I remember the old party sng structures were the worst, was the reason I never played there, they have changed the structure this year, much improved, but they have no traffic at 6m turbos, everyone plays 6m DON for some reason. 

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  • 1 month later...

What tools and study material would you suggest if one wants to advance his SNG game? Everything from basic level (besides fundamental stuff) to advanced knowledge.

is there any good offline SNG simulator out there where you can train different stack depths and situations?

Info note: Only play at sites which does not allow HUD’s.

Nice blog! Keep it going and gl with the gaming:)

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ICMizer or another icm calculator helps with a lot of the <20bb push/call spots. The quality of the output is entirely dependent on how accurately you input opponent ranges but it’s not too hard to generate good results. 

HU play is worth focussing on, often in unibet 5max you get hu reasonably deep.  I don’t have a subscription, but the free material upswing produces I think is good and easy to digest. 

I’m not aware of any sng simulator, PIOsolver would be the closest, doesn’t factor in icm considerations, and it’s a lot of work to output meaningful data (assuming you are against opponents who play far from optimally).  Think I’ve got the basic version (was $300) and it does everything I need.  

You say you can’t use a HUD, but if you play somewhere in addition to unibet, and can collect hh there’s a lot you do with your own data. I generated millions of hh on other sites and have been able to see, for example, which hands are not profitable to open.  There’s very little quality material out there for preflop ranges in early levels; 6max cash or mtt opening ranges don’t translate that well in my opinion.  

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@zeikosan wrote:

Приложения будут использоваться здесь???


Hey zeikosan. The least you can do is speak in English on this forum. Other languages are not allowed

I see now that the circumstances of ones birth are irrelevant... It is what you do with the gift of life that determines who you are.
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@monkeyheaven thanks man, great answer! 

Have looked at ICM a bit but not deeply but that is absolutely something that I need to practice. I need to be better around the bubble I think. There are some spots there where I'm not totally sure of. Guess it’s here in which ICM shall be used to crunch the numbers to figure out how wide we can push to gain that extra +cEV?

Regarding re-flop ranges I have constructed pretty ok ranges for the level I play, I think. Agree, 6max CG ranges are not applicable! Using those would be a less optimal solution. But with that said I have taken some inspiration from them and adjusted. Also keeping some flexibility in them dependent on the opponents, i.e. going over to an exploitative game style when the opponents are right. Not saying that I have GTO ranges figured out for SNG 5 max but just meaning that I try to lean towards a fundamental strategy and make deviations from it when I find it profitable. Likewise when it comes to post-flop play. There I have the same strategy as well (which I have applied from my cash game experience), works pretty well. I’m not an expert post-flop but think I might do above average in the SNG field. Seen much funky sh#t going on post-flop at the SNG tables And at the same, I do some messed up stuff as well. Been snapped of sometimes on river where I’ve been totally empty. The table must have thought “LOL, look at that fool! He is the table donk!” :D Any way, have loads to learn and I’m thankful for the information you shared.

If you have some good info around bubble-play I welcome that

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  • 3 months later...

Been a while since I checked in on here, hope games are going well for you. I've played a couple hexapros out of curiousity. Im not a fan of the jackpot sng format in general, to play professionally you need to be backed to take the variance out of the games, and that obviously takes from my profits.  Specifically Hexapros, the speed of the games, mostly you are playing 1minute levels, and the high rake, they don't look beatable (but everyone said that about stars spins when they were introduced, so maybe the player is soft enough).  So, no not interested .

I am surprised and relieved that their introduction hasn't killed the 5man games on the site, but the state of 5mans has deteriorated anyway from other factors .

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Yeah, I was afraid as well the 5mans would die. But I also noticed their state has become worse. Can't even remember the last time a €100 started. I started playing a bit more MTTs because of this, games have been going pretty well overall so far there in the first months of 2019 😃 

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@traart, 50s plus don't run so much these days, so mostly 10s and 25s. 

State of the games on unibet and in general is pretty terrible for a sng player, higher stakes don't run much at all on unibet and in my opinion there aren't any other options to play reasonable stakes short handed turbos, even stars is pretty dead, and the games their contain some excellent players that have had to drop down from playing 500s to 7s and 15s because there is no high stakes action .

I can still make decent money at the lower stakes, but I'm looking to transition into HUSNG and/or spins, where I have a decent transferable skillset and opportunity to play higher games and achieve a higher hourly than I can at low-mid 5mans on unibet.  Been playing unibet HUSNG and studying, mostly as side action to my main games, but with good success.  That's going to be my main focus moving forward. 

Anyone got any advice on HUSNG let me know, been a while since I learned a new game , gonna update here and prob a 2p2 goals thread if you'd like to follow along . 

Got a lot of questions in past regarding my results in the 5man games, no harm in sharing some results now, haven't requested results from unibet in ages, so these are from a sample that finished about 18 months.  Honestly don't think I'd get close to these results in the current game environment ; this was done 14-16 tabling :

100euro €9.48/game, n=186, roi 9.5%
Inc rb, €10.38/game, roi 10.4

50euro, €3.52/game, n=3107 roi 7.0%
Inc rb €3.97/game, roi 7.9

25euro, €1.29/game, n=16071, roi 5.2%
Inc rb €1.67/game, roi 6.7

10euro, €0.94/game, n=29276, roi =9.4%
Inc rb €1.09/game, roi 10.9

4euro, €0.49/game, n=6840, roi 12.2%
Inc rb €0.55/game, roi 13.8

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Nice blog. What do you think it would take for the 50/100s to run regularly? I grind HUSNGs 25+ but would switch to 5 max if the liquidity were there. Obviously if you and I were playing we would have 2 regs sitting most of the day but games would require at least 1 rec and 4 active regs, how likely do you think this could be?
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  • 8 months later...
  • 2 weeks later...
  • 1 month later...
  • 2 months later...

Been a while since I checked in on this board. Will get this blog going again as the sites sadly down mid-session for me.

I'm now back in the world of real work, sort of, I'm a poker fraud analyst for one of the other poker sites. Will probably write a bit more about this at some point in the future..catching bots and colluders is fun.

Obviously in lockdown at the moment I have a bit more spare time and games have been amazing so getting back into playing.

Been grinding 12 tables of the 5m sng's, only the 10s and 25s so far, tempting to sit the 50s and the 100s.  Not a secret anymore but 50s and 100s were, and probably still are softer than 25s, at times when they ran somewhat regularly they were softer than the 10s. Not putting in enough volume right now to grind through the swings in those games, but will prob start sitting them in next couple weeks if game quality remains this good. 

Hope everyone's well and enjoying the new mini-boom

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