NHL Season bets

[ChuckBassPoker]

@Livertool,

I think the main issue actually is that they already did go in a direction regarding some of the categories, but the direction wasn't too well chosen and they settled bets way prematurely without thinking it through. So having already paid out a ton of players money for bets they didn't necessarily deserve to win, they now only have bad options:

1) Void the bets for the rest of the players, meaning that they lose a ton of money
2) Refuse to void bets that should be voids and keep going with it, losing customers
3) Somehow try to get the money back from players who were handed wins prematurely, which will for sure piss everyone off

I don't even know which one is worst for them, but either way it sucks. I'm fairly sure that everyone wishes this was handled in a logical and professional manner since day 1, because then this wouldn't have happened in the first place.

I mean yeah, it doesn't help anyone to delay the decision-making, but I do acknowledge it's genuinely a huge decision to make and it seems like they've only now reached the point where they are equipped to start making it. Again, I have no idea how it's possible that we weren't at this point 6 weeks ago, but it is what it is and I think from this point onwards it's reasonable to give them time to sort things out given the context.

To me it feels and seems absolutely clear that every bet where one side gained from having played more games than the other should be a void. If we go over category by category, it should be really simple:

Team vs team H2H: Team x played 3 more games than team y. Did team x beat team y by more than 6 points (the max the other team could get in those 3 games)? If yes, then I think it's reasonable to settle the bet. If they won by less than 6 points, there's just no way you can settle it. Sorry everyone but this is a void. While you could theoretically also go by PPG, that too is far from perfect (one team probably played more home games than the other, one probably had more games left against the worst teams in the league so their point expectancy was higher... etc). I wouldn't hate going by PPG, it would make SOME sense as a "we know this sucks but it's the best we can do under these circumstances" kind of option, but it would still leave a sour taste in my mouth knowing that settling makes the company money and voiding doesn't, for which reason settling should only happen if everything is crystal clear (which it wouldn't be in this case).

Player vs player H2H: Player x's team played 3 more games than player y's team. You have to void this either way, because unlike in team points, there's no limit in player scoring. Even if one player was leading another by 10 points, if the other played one game less you just can't know what would have happened. It's the most obvious case of an artificial edge that's clearly against the metrics of the bet and should just result in a snap void of every bet in these categories (as other bookies did). But somehow, THESE were one of the few categories that they actually did decide to settle, instead of many way more logical ones where you actually kinda have results (division winners).

Again, I think the best way to do it would be to just void everything anyway except for bets where one side was mathematically eliminated from catching up (like reaching the o/u points). This way you don't have to worry about pissing anyone off, because everyone understands that a season lasts 82 games and the terms of the bet have changed so dramatically mid-season that it's just not the same --> bets are off. There's just no way this isn't the best way to do it. Also it would be tough for customers complain given that they would have taken the noble route as in choosing the option that nets them the least money.

What Unibet started doing, though, was none of these somewhat reasonable options, but rather they first waited for weeks, then received a ton of backlash about stalling, and then (I'm just speculating here) under a ton of pressure started settling bets hastily without much consideration. It's bizarre to me how they decided what categories have results and what don't and how they managed to come to a conclusion that basically similar categories would be settled in completely opposite ways without following any sort of logic, but that's what happened, and the moment people received their "winnings" on their accounts for bets they shouldn't have we reached a point of no return. Now whatever they do is just making it worse, yet they still have to do something (see 1-3 above). So yeah I think it's fine to have them consider their options carefully here.

To answer your question, I'm certainly staying away from making any bets on Unibet for now and I placed my playoff bets on other bookies. What the future holds depends on the outcome of all this. The amounts I have stuck as a result of this mess don't really affect my livelihood, but if i rewind 10 years they easily would've been really important for me to receive in time, and just out of principle and for all the man hours I've had to dedicate to this if the end result of this is them keeping all the money, yeah I'm voting with my feet. But then again it's not like they should be too worried about my measly stakes because it's a drop in a bucket for them, so realistically I'm not expecting this to have any effect on their actual decision-making. Still gotta be a man of principle though, it's not like the world will be running out of bookies anytime soon.

[Livertool]

It is hardly customers fault if they already paid to some? I have been paid wrong bets and then they have removed money from my account and i haven't think of it as bad since i never was entitled to that money. Sure they can't remove if money has been already withdrawn but what can you do but leave balance to negative and up to customers if they want to even it out. I've done that too to other site when amount wasn't too big and i knew that in time i'll get out of them more than that. Wouldn't have done it thou if amount would have been large enough.

Wouldn't have been wrong (and imo they should have)  void all bets from the beginning cause circumstances were extraordinary, it would have been easiest way to both party in bad situation. 

Delaying and asking for NHL results, which i doubt they never get if they are not partners with them, helps none, still they have to eventually do something. So still best way would be to do some decision, handle the possible losses, fire some peeps if necessary, like the wounds and life goes on...

[JeppeL]

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@Lime wrote:

@JeppeL thanks for looking into my query above, with regards to this statement below:

"We will be settling this when an official statement has been released by the NHL as to the winners of each Division.

We are in contact with the NHL to confirm if there is an official announcement for divisional winners. If not, bets will be void."

Could you also confirm the timeframe here you will be waiting for an answer before deciding what course of action to take because I can see the NHL having a whole host of higher priorities to deal with before getting to this issue. What would happen if you voided these before the NHL answered you and then they go on to confirm division winners?

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@Lime I wish I had a time frame on it, but as there's no confirmation from the NHL on a timeframe I don't have it either. I sent the link for an article claiming the Vegas Knights as winners, as well as the video conference of the NHL comissioner stating that the regular season is over to the Sportsbook, but they came back and said the winners still aren't announced officially, and as mentioned, that they're in direct contact with the NHL about it.

I think they're still dealing with the chance that the season might still get cancelled all together and thus there'll be no official division winners.

If we voided all the divisonal bets and the winners were announced officially later, then we'd have to pay out out the winners or else we would't be holding up our end of the contract(T&C) on the bets. 

I don't consider it an issue that "the NHL has higher priorities to deal with". They're a big company and can handle multiple things at once, and they're aware that thousands of bets worldwide are settled on the basis of the results they announce.

Lastly, me announcing that I'll issue Free Bets for season bets placed in connection to a community promotion is a seperate issue than dealing with the settlements of the bets themselves and they do not really relate. The promotion is mine and I can issue more Free Bets around it if I feel it's appropiate, but when it comes to the bets themselves, I can't change the Sportsbook Terms and Conditions. 

/Jeppe

[ChuckBassPoker]

Any updates?

[ChuckBassPoker]

I'm currently watching an NHL preseason game while Unibet is still trying to figure out who won what in the previous NHL event that ended in March. Yep, this is real life.

Seems a tad curious to be offering bets for this upcoming playoff season when you still haven't paid the players their money for regular season results that have been confirmed since May... nor have you corrected any of the errors you made settling some of those bets months ago.

If you look at my betting history, I did indeed place a couple of bets for the playoffs on Unibet to show that I still have a glimmer of hope these bets will one day still be handled fairly... but make no mistake, even if I'm a breakeven player sans rake this has already cost you a lot more than it would've to just admit you handled the bets wrong in the first place and compensate accordingly. I made like 6 bets worth 300 euros total on Unibet for the playoffs... and placed over 200 bets total on your competitors instead. So much of this money would've been placed on Unibet instead if this was handled fairly.

Your choice I guess, the effect is cumulative in the future, it just really doesn't make any sense at all to not finally settle this mess once and for all. I find it very hard to believe you wouldn't be losing more customers, and thus more money in the long run, by this insane stalling and randomly clicking buttons to settle a bet here and there completely wrong as opposed to just doing what you were supposed to do months ago and compensating the players (preferably quite royally) for everything.