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Hey @JeppeL sure, but can we schedule a time (doesn't need to be exact, but like a 2-hour window or so) in advance please? I'm going to be a bit tough to reach this weekend, but I'll be available from ~10.30am GMT+2 (CET) onwards on weekdays, late night works too.

Just let me know when you think you'll roughly call, any day / time works after 10.30am (from Monday onwards) but I'm quite busy normally so it'd help to know when to make myself available :)

Feel free to email me at the address linked to my account to schedule a more specific time or just post here, I'll make sure to check this thread. Thanks!

Edit: Private message at this forum works too I think

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I never received a phone call *shrug*

It's now been roughly 6-weeks since the NHL announced the regular season is finished. Quite a long time of having all this money confiscated without explanation. Still no email, no statement, wrongly settled bets haven't been corrected, winning bets haven't been paid out. I know I sound like a broken record, but this is not how a publically listed company is supposed to operate. I had to place my bets for the upcoming playoffs elsewhere, since getting, you know, paid by the bookie in case I win is actually kind of crucial.

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@JeppeLalright, thanks! I'll be available from roughly 11:30am CET onwards all day and all evening. There might be some short pauses here and there when I won't be near my phone, but if I don't pick up please just try again a little bit later!

I also don't really expect the kind of treatment where you guys actually call players, so if you're too busy to call but think you have a fair solution to finally sort this mess out, I'm more than fine with just reading a post about it :)

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No worries @ChuckBassPoker, the reason I wanted to do the call first is that I don't have the greatest of news as the decision we've made is the one you were worried about. This is what we got from our Sportsbook about the different bets:

We have settled the following markets based on the outcomes deriving from current standings:
• Top Goal/Point Scorer in the league and for each team
• Best finishing position in the Regular Season between Team X and Team Y – This will be settled where both the average points per team and total points per team do not conflict on NHL.com. For instances where there is a conflict bets will be void. We do not have a rule stating a minimum number of games should apply.
• Awards as confirmed by NHL.com

We have settled the following markets as VOID, unless the total has been reached already:
• Over/Under Total Points/Goals of Player X
• Over/Under Team Total Points in the Regular Season

The following term applies:

Settlement of bets will not include any changes deriving from and/or attributable to, but not limited to: disqualifications, penalisations, protests, sub judice results and/or successive changes to the official result after the event has been completed and a result has been announced, even preliminarily. For bets referring to competitions which span over more than 1 round/stage (E.g,:.Season Bets), only amendments effecting bets which settlement has not been decided yet will be taken into consideration. Such measures must be announced by the governing association before the last scheduled round/stage will be considered. Any changes effected after this date, or else referring to bets which have already been settled based on events happening during the event/competition will not be considered.

We will be settling this when an official statement has been released by the NHL as to the winners of each Division.

We are in contact with the NHL to confirm if there is an official announcement for divisional winners. If not, bets will be void.

----------------

I realize there's a statement made that the NHL season is already over, but the division winners have not officially been announced yet as per the above.

The issue for us is that if we don't settle on the basis of our rules, that we follow the official results, I believe we'd be legally liable when voiding what would be winning bets - so we've decided to settle the bets each way in accordance with our Terms and Conditions. Even though the regular season is incomplete, the official stats are the ones that are on NHL.com now and they're the ones that'll be the years from now when you look up official numbers from this season.

/Jeppe

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@JeppeL wrote:

 

We are in contact with the NHL to confirm if there is an official announcement for divisional winners. If not, bets will be void.

----------------

I realize there's a statement made that the NHL season is already over, but the division winners have not officially been announced yet as per the above.

 Even though the regular season is incomplete, the official stats are the ones that are on NHL.com now and they're the ones that'll be the years from now when you look up official numbers from this season.

/Jeppe


You contact NHL if they confirm official results yet say that official results are on nhl.com already :wonder:

Well, not my problem but if i get it right (not sure cause too many fancy words in there) NBA winner bets stand as they are until play offs are played/settled?

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@Livertool We're awaiting the confirmation of the divisional winners, but as for the stats, they are on site and based on the games already played.

You're right, the NBA season bets stand until a winner or found or the season is potentially cancelled fully, in that case they'll be voided as well.
I'm going to issue a Free Bet for everyone who placed a bet for the LA Lakers or 3pt record promotion, I think that's the best course of action here. We have a new back office in place though and I'm awaiting approved access(hopeful that will complete today) before making the change.

/Jeppe

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@JeppeL

Hello, from this at least the case with NBA season over/under wins per team is clarified, thank you.

 

You said that "it covers seasonal bets in general on US sports." In this case NBA will be treated exactly 100% as NHL right?

So,

"We are in contact with the NHL to confirm if there is an official announcement for divisional winners. If not, bets will be void."

Which means that the reply from nhl.com and final decision about NHL division winners will apply also to NBA division winners?

 

Why can't you do the same as with • Over/Under Team Total Points in the Regular Season, when you settle the market as VOID, unless the total has been reached already, in this case the second team can't possibly catch up based on 82games. It would be unfair if you just copy NHL decision, because if Bucks division winner gets void it's clearly bad decision because it is obvious they gonna win, the opposite case with for example Raptors, they have 3 games advantage but anything could happen if 82 games were played, because they might have tougher opponents at the end. I just want to have the fair outcome at the end.

 

 

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I just checked NHL on

nhl.com/standings 2018-2019 season and teams have symbols x, y, p, z next to their names. For example y - Clinched division.

On the 2019-2020 there are not such symbols, therefore I think they don't issued official division winners and so all nhl and nba division winner bets should be voided.

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@kullfitre wrote:

@JeppeL

Hello, from this at least the case with NBA season over/under wins per team is clarified, thank you.

 

You said that "it covers seasonal bets in general on US sports." In this case NBA will be treated exactly 100% as NHL right?

So,

"We are in contact with the NHL to confirm if there is an official announcement for divisional winners. If not, bets will be void."

Which means that the reply from nhl.com and final decision about NHL division winners will apply also to NBA division winners?

 

Why can't you do the same as with • Over/Under Team Total Points in the Regular Season, when you settle the market as VOID, unless the total has been reached already, in this case the second team can't possibly catch up based on 82games. It would be unfair if you just copy NHL decision, because if Bucks division winner gets void it's clearly bad decision because it is obvious they gonna win, the opposite case with for example Raptors, they have 3 games advantage but anything could happen if 82 games were played, because they might have tougher opponents at the end. I just want to have the fair outcome at the end.

 


@kullfitre The announcement and final decision on NBA divison winners would have to come from the Adam Silver and the NBA itself. There'd be no reason to cancel the divison winners bets, unless they fully cancel the season without declared team winners. We're awaiting this confirmation and my feeling is it won't come until what remains of the season has been completed.

Bets that were already decided since the opposition doesn't have the chance of catching up, you're right that those should be settled on the basis of the result - I believe these bets have already been settled on this basis. 

I agree 100% that it should be a fair outcome, which is also why I've been asking for opinions on what you guys think is fair in a situation like this!

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@JeppeL 

"Bets that were already decided since the opposition doesn't have the chance of catching up, you're right that those should be settled on the basis of the result - I believe these bets have already been settled on this basis. "

This obviously isn't true if the bets were held as part of a parlay where the other legs haven't yet settled but please confirm that we will still get paid for our winning legs of the parlay as per your statement above should the other elements be eventually voided? 

I know what best practice for books here should be (ex-auditor), i'll be stunned if this isn't the case but at this point it seems necessary to clarify even the most basic things.

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@Lime wrote:

@JeppeL 

"Bets that were already decided since the opposition doesn't have the chance of catching up, you're right that those should be settled on the basis of the result - I believe these bets have already been settled on this basis. "

This obviously isn't true if the bets were held as part of a parlay where the other legs haven't yet settled but please confirm that we will still get paid for our winning legs of the parlay as per your statement above should the other elements be eventually voided? 

I know what best practice for books here should be (ex-auditor), i'll be stunned if this isn't the case but at this point it seems necessary to clarify even the most basic things.


@Lime  That goes for any bet which is voided, that if it's part of a parlay, the remaining bets on the coupon still remain active at the odds to which they were placed. I can check up on if there should be any kind discrepancy on these bets, but I don't believe it to be the case.

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@JeppeL thanks for looking into my query above, with regards to this statement below:

"We will be settling this when an official statement has been released by the NHL as to the winners of each Division.

We are in contact with the NHL to confirm if there is an official announcement for divisional winners. If not, bets will be void."

Could you also confirm the timeframe here you will be waiting for an answer before deciding what course of action to take because I can see the NHL having a whole host of higher priorities to deal with before getting to this issue. What would happen if you voided these before the NHL answered you and then they go on to confirm division winners?

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@JeppeL 

Thanks for your post. I still can't get quote to work, so I'll be quoting you piece by piece here. Everything in quotations is from your post, everything in bolded is my comment.

"We have settled the following markets based on the outcomes deriving from current standings:
• Best finishing position in the Regular Season between Team X and Team Y – This will be settled where both the average points per team and total points per team do not conflict on NHL.com. For instances where there is a conflict bets will be void."

This is very smart

"• Awards as confirmed by NHL.com"

Obviously

"We have settled the following markets as VOID, unless the total has been reached already:
• Over/Under Total Points/Goals of Player X
• Over/Under Team Total Points in the Regular Season"

Agreed

But then, randomly, instead of including "Top Goal/Point Scorer in the league and for each team" (I assume this also includes "top goal/pointscorer from nation x") in the VOID category you're somehow settling them, even though players in these bets played different amounts of games and the whole idea of the bets was to bet on production on an 82-game season. It really isn't different from the above two categories which you voided. In what world is it fair that, say, in "Top swedish goalscorer" one guy's team has played 68 games and another player got to play 71 games? How can this possibly not be a void when clearly players who played more games have an advantage over others and thus there's a clear artificial edge created due to the cancelled season? While you're at it, why not settle ever over/under bet that didn't hit yet as under? The effect is the exact same... the "results" here are not what people were betting on and the playing field is not even. Should be incredibly obvious to void bets where this occurred, and only settle bets where you have official results from the NHL and/or bets where the cancellation didn't have effect on the outcome (the way you handled team vs. team H2H is a good example of doing this in a very smart way).

Making things worse, you quoted this explaining why the divisional bets still haven't been paid out:

"The following term applies:

Settlement of bets will not include any changes deriving from and/or attributable to, but not limited to: disqualifications, penalisations, protests, sub judice results and/or successive changes to the official result after the event has been completed and a result has been announced, even preliminarily. For bets referring to competitions which span over more than 1 round/stage (E.g,:.Season Bets), only amendments effecting bets which settlement has not been decided yet will be taken into consideration. Such measures must be announced by the governing association before the last scheduled round/stage will be considered. Any changes effected after this date, or else referring to bets which have already been settled based on events happening during the event/competition will not be considered.

We will be settling this when an official statement has been released by the NHL as to the winners of each Division.

We are in contact with the NHL to confirm if there is an official announcement for divisional winners. If not, bets will be void."

So you aren't settling divisional bets because you claim to not have official results. Mind pointing me to the official announciation by the NHL about the player bets? They have not crowned anyone in any of these categories. The only exception is league top point/goalscorer in the sense that they will still get the awards for bets goalscorer and pointscorer at the NHL awards. Regarding anything else related to player production the results are not final (nor will they ever be) and there has been no official announcement. Why? BECAUSE THE PLAYERS PLAYED DIFFERENT AMOUNTS OF GAMES and I'm pretty sure you can't just give some players advantage of 3 games over others and pretend that it's a level playing field.

Like yeah, I have some bad bets in the league top point/goalscorer categories where we can pretty safely say they weren't hitting anyway because even if my players got to play the extra 3 games it would have required absurd production for them to catch up. So if everything else was handled fairly, I'd be fine with you voiding them, even though it sucks ass that I had the winning choice in the same categories on other sites yet had them voided because they have read the situation correctly and just voided the player bets for obvious reasons.

It's clear as a day that the announcement about who won divisions has been a million times more obvious than the one about player bets. I don't see any sort of progress being made here, it's a lot of jargon but the situation remains the exact same and seems to be driven by either greed, incompetence or both. When you settle bets, you make money. When you void them, you lose money. So you've decided to settle every single bet as a loss regardless of the fact that results for said bets don't exist.

Also, again as you wrote:

"For bets referring to competitions which span over more than 1 round/stage (E.g,:.Season Bets), only amendments effecting bets which settlement has not been decided yet will be taken into consideration. Such measures must be announced by the governing association before the last scheduled round/stage will be considered. Any changes effected after this date, or else referring to bets which have already been settled based on events happening during the event/competition will not be considered."

Isn't this exactly what happened? The NHL announced the season cancellation way ahead of the date of the last scheduled round. Thus the changes must be considered = the results are not valid = time to void everything like all the other bookies did? What am I missing here?

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@Lime wrote:

@JeppeL thanks for looking into my query above, with regards to this statement below:

"We will be settling this when an official statement has been released by the NHL as to the winners of each Division.

We are in contact with the NHL to confirm if there is an official announcement for divisional winners. If not, bets will be void."

Could you also confirm the timeframe here you will be waiting for an answer before deciding what course of action to take because I can see the NHL having a whole host of higher priorities to deal with before getting to this issue. What would happen if you voided these before the NHL answered you and then they go on to confirm division winners?


That was my point too. If you search past division winners, at least i don't find any announcements of them but just stats where everyone can see who were winners. There is also winning persantages added for this year results so idk what makes it more official. I get that this year has been xtra ordinary but honestly what NHL  can respond to that query?

A. No, those are just fun stats.

B. Yes, team at top of each division table are infact winners.

Just seems like waste of time :)

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I guess I'll add one more thing to my previous post. I'm aware this will come off as a little bit douchy, so please don't take this personally.

So you said that you'll ask the NHL about the divisional results now, in mid-July, when the season was cancelled in May and it's been 4 months since a game of NHL was last played. What exactly have you guys been doing for the previous 6 weeks? I started this thread 6 weeks ago and it only now occurs to you that hey, maybe we should do something about this? Do you have any idea how much time, effort and mental stress it has taken me to get us to this point, in a case that is 100% your fault?

I bet regularly on what I think are roughly the 8 biggest sportsbooks (excluding segregated markets and some UK sportsbooks). None of them had any issue settling these bets in May. Bet365 took TWO DAYS to settle them, and they sent me an email apologizing they took so long and offered me additional compensation (they voided my missed goalscorer bets and paid out the winning one, which I thought was pretty sick). Coolbet paid out immediately. Betsson paid out immediately. Pinnacle, Betfair, William Hill, yadda yadda, it's been so long since they paid out it feels like a lifetime ago. I bet the Brits at WH don't even know the rules of ice hockey but even they were capable of doing the only thing a sportsbook should be doing within a reasonable timeframe, yet here we are still with Unibet.

When I read the NBA thread, it seems you're addressing free bets to every single guy who complains about their promotional FREE BET having some minor issue with the NBA standings. More free money to people who were freerolling to begin with and who bet on a league that announced its cancellation way after the NHL. Yet here I am, having deposited what I assume must be tens of thousands of euros over being a customer of 12 years, still being owed money, having wasted hours and hours of my time trying to sort this out, and all I'm getting after 6 weeks of waiting is "Ok bro, we'll ask the NHL now if they have any results, we'll get back to you at some point" trololol. (All the while still keeping the money about other categories that have no results, see previous post)

I don't know what this great meeting you had last week was, but it sure didn't sort out anything at all. If anything, I'm even more convinced to never bet on your site again because after 6 weeks I'm still being owed a ton of money and I've received nothing but excuses. I've tried to help out in every way I can, I've explained over and over what other bookies have done and what clearly should be done in a situation where some teams/players played more games than others, I've quoted your own betting rules. I've said since day one that you are more than welcome to simply void every single NHL season bet that I have including the winning ones, there we go, problem solved. If you don't want to do that, just do the right thing, works for me. Butnahhhhhhhh the stance you've chosen has been to keep the money and do nothing, even sending an email to the NHL has taken you 6 weeks. I'd be really curious to know how you plan on making this right by your actual real money customers and why we are being shuffled to the bottom of the pile while the freebettors are being treated like royalty.

Again sorry for the rant, nothing against you personally @JeppeL 

By the way re: player bets you've settled without results. I just realized the NHL haven't even announced the top goalscorer / pointscorer winners yet which would be the only player bet category that makes some sense to not void. It's not even guaranteed the NHL awards will happen and they may never crown a winner in either category. So what do you plan on doing if the NHL can't finish the season and annouce that this whole season is void and nothing counts for anything? Yeah, that's unlikely, but it's a real possibility as well given there has been no announciation about the results. Yet somehow you found a way to settle all of these as a loss, but the one damn thing that is actually obvious (which is team is at the top of each division) requires a 6-week brainstorming process for you to even react followed by contacting the NHL for more clarification.

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@JeppeL wrote:

 

I'm going to issue a Free Bet for everyone who placed a bet for the LA Lakers or 3pt record promotion, I think that's the best course of action here. We have a new back office in place though and I'm awaiting approved access(hopeful that will complete today) before making the change.

/Jeppe


@JeppeL  seen my friend?

free.jpg.51d512b65f8094c2c563e1ecb31b848f.jpg

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@JeppeL wrote:

Seen it @Livertool, 2% milk is your favorite? :)


Meh, like in all liquids, more persentages they have the better 😛

Can you ship my friend home, i miss him. And planning to make him as fat as possible , got perfect recipe. Bit of 2.02, hint of 1.50, whole lot of 1.20, mix them together and wait for incredible cuisine :D

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Man I like how you continue to totally ignore and not address totally valid criticisms from @ChuckBassPoker and myself in my NBA thread who have literal thousands on the line with you and instead choose to focus your time on 10euro free bets!?!?

I get that it's way easier to please the masses with these small gestures but where's the equal treatment for your high level players?  I just don't feel at all you are giving enough time and attention at all to your most inexcusable queries and concerns.

I am generally not one to complain at all in life, even when I have valid ones. I have no NHL season bets but this treatment of your most valuable players is abhorrant. The length of time this has gone on now is absolutely unacceptable. Small updates here and there but primarily ignoring the majority of large posts, not addressing any real and valid points being made. It's already been raised but let's bring it up again Bet365 handled these NHL bets in 2 days. T W O. In what planet has this timeline been acceptable?

On the back of how you've handled this and lets be honest, the absolute mess that i'm sure will be the NBA season bet i'm already stressed in advance knowing i'm going to have to deal with this for months on end. Unibet is shiny on the outside but this has just shown me what a mess you guys are internally, it is night and day here in comparison to Bet365. This company needs to be restructured, seriously.

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I had a good chat with Jeppe over the phone just now. I don't want to quote him on anything on the off chance some of it was confidential, but I'll just say that I'm fairly convinced they are doing their best to sort this out. I have no idea what the outcome will be, and the rulings we have so far don't really make sense at all, but I also understand that Unibet are in quite a pickle here.

My feeling (and I'll further clarify I'm not quoting Jeppe here, this is just the impression I'm left under) is that mistakes were made at the beginning, and we are still suffering from a snowball effect of sorts. My stance remains that many categories were settled in a completely insane fashion (settling player vs player bets when one player got to play 3 more games than the other etc), and now whatever they choose to do from this point onwards sucks because either they stand to lose a lot of money or they'll be pissing off a lot of customers. Furthermore, it still doesn't make any sense to me how they settled some categories and settling others is 6+ weeks late when they have the equal amount of results in every category related to the NHL regular season bets. But at least it seems to me that it's being acknowledged within the company what a mess this is and they're trying to find a way to sort it out for everyone. I also completely understand that whatever they choose is going to suck for them (either lose money or customers) so it won't be an easy decision to make. While I'm not fine with having had to wait this long and all the time I've wasted on this, I find it reasonable that it'll take some more time to sort things out from this point onwards.

I'm sure they'll be the first to admit that this process shouldn't have taken this long (and who knows how long it'll still take), and it's quite strange to me that this happened in the first place. But here we are, and at least I think they're doing their best to move towards a solution now.

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@ChuckBassPoker wrote:

 I also completely understand that whatever they choose is going to suck for them (either lose money or customers) so it won't be an easy decision to make. 


Needs Trumplike decision making, in the end they have to go some direction. Hard too see delaying things helps anyone. Or are ou likely to make season bets for them after all this? 

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