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Livertool

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@Nikzzzz wrote:


@DoktorAvalanche wrote:

So clearly that 3 of them the game had almost restarted before they were found. I'd rather the refs did their job and didn't rely on VAR to fix their errors.

 

And if the refs are so ❤️♥️❤️ that they miss those decisions then YES i'd rather it finished 4-2.

Goal line technology works almost perfectly, let's leave it there. Or would you do away with the officials altogether?


Of course. We all want that. But thats never going to happen, so here we are. Not sure what almost restarted means. After a goal theres not a lot of other options to wait before restarting play. 

 

 

 

It's when they all walk back to the halfway line and stand ready to restart while the referee stands with his hand on his ear listening to the pearls of wisdom from the VAR official. If it was clearly offside it would be sorted quickly.

Do you honestly thinkthat the game is better on any level for having VAR? I genuinely don't. I preferred it's beautiful but natural imperfection. Now it's still imperfect (because even cameras don't always make it obvious) but feels weird and unnatural.It's strangling the game, get rid.

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@DoktorAvalanche wrote:


@Nikzzzz wrote:


@DoktorAvalanche wrote:

So clearly that 3 of them the game had almost restarted before they were found. I'd rather the refs did their job and didn't rely on VAR to fix their errors.

 

And if the refs are so ❤️♥️❤️ that they miss those decisions then YES i'd rather it finished 4-2.

Goal line technology works almost perfectly, let's leave it there. Or would you do away with the officials altogether?


Of course. We all want that. But thats never going to happen, so here we are. Not sure what almost restarted means. After a goal theres not a lot of other options to wait before restarting play. 

 

 

 

It's when they all walk back to the halfway line and stand ready to restart while the referee stands with his hand on his ear listening to the pearls of wisdom from the VAR official. If it was clearly offside it would be sorted quickly.

Do you honestly thinkthat the game is better on any level for having VAR? I genuinely don't. I preferred it's beautiful but natural imperfection. Now it's still imperfect (because even cameras don't always make it obvious) but feels weird and unnatural.It's strangling the game, get rid.


 I am saying i dont understand what else they should do, other  then  walk back. Basically you are deciding that it was close bacause the referees spent a long time deciding, rather then you looking at the incident and deciding for yourself. I already said, and agree that there is to much time beeing spent reviewing decisions. But thats a result om bad use of VAR not VAR itself. Which will only get better as referees get more used to it. I dont think any of the calls were close when viewed in replay, and they should have made the calls much quicker. 

 

I understand your point of view regarding the flow of the game, and as you say natural imperfection. I hope and believe improvments will be made, but regardless; correct decions being made(most of the time) still trumps it for me at the moment. 

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Each to their own. :)

You'd think they'd have the hang of VAR by now and  they even seem to have got worse at using it. I just think that there are now way too many variables, they've made a fairly straightforward decision very complicated now. Mistakes can even be made in communication or lack of it. It makes refs lazy and rely on the system too much. 

At the end of the day we managed without VAR for over 100 years. The game works better without it. 

Cani just make one last point about offside decisions given by VAR. At what point do you stop the film to draw the  lines? As the player's foot touches the ball or as it leaves his foot? Watch a super slow motion of a ball being kicked and you'll see how fallible this system is.

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Yeah and it is referees job to make those educated judgements. Same like to give ot not freekick, card etc... There is no absolute truth in those either yet decision one way or other may have crusial effect on score. Next step that they start viewing those with videos too and only whisttle blows we hear is start and end of game 😏 Wouldn't mind if they would use VAR to totally wrong calls but not like this.

Besides if assist ref don't flag offside and game continues, that is very wrong decision too. Even if there is no goal in situation that follows, i can guarantee game isn't same if they allow it to continue vs defending team gets freekick from that offside that never has been called. Where is justice in that?

 

 

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@DoktorAvalanche wrote:

Each to their own. :)

You'd think they'd have the hang of VAR by now and  they even seem to have got worse at using it. I just think that there are now way too many variables, they've made a fairly straightforward decision very complicated now. Mistakes can even be made in communication or lack of it. It makes refs lazy and rely on the system too much. 

At the end of the day we managed without VAR for over 100 years. The game works better without it. 

Cani just make one last point about offside decisions given by VAR. At what point do you stop the film to draw the  lines? As the player's foot touches the ball or as it leaves his foot? Watch a super slow motion of a ball being kicked and you'll see how fallible this system is.


Yes abosolutly 😃

 

Its a good point regarding when to draw the line. It should be when the ball leaves the foot imo, and if done incorrectly even by a small margin that does indeed make a big difference in some cases. I dont know what cameras are used and how many frames pr second they register. However if the player recieving the ball is offside when the player touches the ball and also when the ball has left the foot, it doesnt matter as he is offside regardless. If this is not completely clear i think the goal should be given. 

 

Its true the game was fine without VAR. But id bet there are many things you are doing differently now even though you managed fine without them before, things can always get better 😀 

 

 

 

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@Nikzzzz wrote:


Its true the game was fine without VAR. But id bet there are many things you are doing differently now even though you managed fine without them before, things can always get better 😀 

 

 


That is the key thing. If something ain't broke, no need to fix it.

None complained about chip in ball to tell if it is goal or not, player that don't effect game to be offside, goalkeeper can't take ball to hands when own player passes ball etc cause those made game better and more smooth unlike thise "improvement" straight from hell 🤫

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@Livertool wrote:


@Nikzzzz wrote:


Its true the game was fine without VAR. But id bet there are many things you are doing differently now even though you managed fine without them before, things can always get better 😀 

 

 


That is the key thing. If something ain't broke, no need to fix it.

None complained about chip in ball to tell if it is goal or not, player that don't effect game to be offside, goalkeeper can't take ball to hands when own player passes ball etc cause those made game better and more smooth unlike thise "improvement" straight from hell 🤫

 

Absolutely.

Even the chip in ball can malfunction though. A couple of weeks ago a 'goal' wasn't given even though it was clear to the naked eye that it had crossed the line. The on field referee even said later that he thought it was over the line but he trusted the technology over his eyesight.(probably a fair assumption for most referees 🤣) But because a defender and the goalkeeper and the goalpost were all so close together it caused a  malfunction. 

That said i'm happy with goal line tech as that's possibly the only example of it not working properly and it's not open to 'interpretation'.


 

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@Livertool wrote:



That is the key thing. If something ain't broke, no need to fix it.

None complained about chip in ball to tell if it is goal or not, player that don't effect game to be offside, goalkeeper can't take ball to hands when own player passes ball etc cause those made game better and more smooth unlike thise "improvement" straight from hell 🤫


The game is already different without VAR anyway. It is played at a higher pace, and game changing incidents happen more often than they used to. More teams are playing high lines etc.

 

Player transfers are also completely different. A bad season at a different time. No problem, go again next season. Now? Players leave. Losing out on Europe can have enormous consequences for a club for years to come.

 

Again, I come back to the original topic of this discussion. The 4 offside decisions in the Napoli game were all correct with the use of VAR, and it stopped Sassuolo from winning the game. 

Potentially costing Napoli Europe next season. Players that would have left, might now stay. 

The consequences of a decision are different than 30 years ago. 

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@Nikzzzz wrote:


The 4 offside decisions in the Napoli game were all correct with the use of VAR, and it stopped Sassuolo from winning the game. 

Potentially costing Napoli Europe next season.


I am quite sure they would have been offsides regardless of var, difference is they would have called immediatly and we woudn't have seen goals which lead to this conversation. It is no secret that pre-var they called offsides pretty safely to favour defensive team if it was close call. Nowadays they seem to be afraid to raise the flag cause, you know there is always var to points "Absolute truth" 😏

@DoktorAvalanche 

This must be only time so far that i've seen chip to fail and it should have been goal. But it is acceptable if at least 90% of time that chip works when var don't reach even 50% 🤣

https://www.unibetcommunity.com/t5/Betting-and-Sports/LOTS-OF-PREMIER-LEAGUE/m-p/334842#M43068 

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@Nikzzzz wrote:


@Livertool wrote:



That is the key thing. If something ain't broke, no need to fix it.

None complained about chip in ball to tell if it is goal or not, player that don't effect game to be offside, goalkeeper can't take ball to hands when own player passes ball etc cause those made game better and more smooth unlike thise "improvement" straight from hell 🤫


The game is already different without VAR anyway. It is played at a higher pace, and game changing incidents happen more often than they used to. More teams are playing high lines etc.

 

Player transfers are also completely different. A bad season at a different time. No problem, go again next season. Now? Players leave. Losing out on Europe can have enormous consequences for a club for years to come.

 

Again, I come back to the original topic of this discussion. The 4 offside decisions in the Napoli game were all correct with the use of VAR, and it stopped Sassuolo from winning the game. 

Potentially costing Napoli Europe next season. Players that would have left, might now stay. 

The consequences of a decision are different than 30 years ago. 


Irrelevant.

 

To sum up. I dislike VAR because it slows down the game and makes officials lazy.

You like it because errors are potentially avoided (if VAR is applied perfectly)

The End.

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@DoktorAvalanche wrote:


@Nikzzzz wrote:


@Livertool wrote:



That is the key thing. If something ain't broke, no need to fix it.

None complained about chip in ball to tell if it is goal or not, player that don't effect game to be offside, goalkeeper can't take ball to hands when own player passes ball etc cause those made game better and more smooth unlike thise "improvement" straight from hell 🤫


The game is already different without VAR anyway. It is played at a higher pace, and game changing incidents happen more often than they used to. More teams are playing high lines etc.

 

Player transfers are also completely different. A bad season at a different time. No problem, go again next season. Now? Players leave. Losing out on Europe can have enormous consequences for a club for years to come.

 

Again, I come back to the original topic of this discussion. The 4 offside decisions in the Napoli game were all correct with the use of VAR, and it stopped Sassuolo from winning the game. 

Potentially costing Napoli Europe next season. Players that would have left, might now stay. 

The consequences of a decision are different than 30 years ago. 


Irrelevant.

 

To sum up. I dislike VAR because it slows down the game and makes officials lazy.

You like it because errors are potentially avoided (if VAR is applied perfectly)

The End.


Only irrelevant reply here is yours. You could have just moved on, I wasn't even replying to you. I am well aware of your position and that is absolutely fine 😃

 

My response was a direct reply to what @Livertool Livertool said, and certainly very relevant regardless if people disagree with it.

 

We see things differently, no problem. For me a discussion is not about trying to change peoples mind, and it doesn't have to end just because opinions are different. I enjoy giving my view on football related matters and expressing my opinion without being told they are irrelevant if that is ok with you   :lovekiss:

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@Livertool wrote:


@Nikzzzz wrote:


The 4 offside decisions in the Napoli game were all correct with the use of VAR, and it stopped Sassuolo from winning the game. 

Potentially costing Napoli Europe next season.


I am quite sure they would have been offsides regardless of var, difference is they would have called immediatly and we woudn't have seen goals which lead to this conversation. It is no secret that pre-var they called offsides pretty safely to favour defensive team if it was close call. Nowadays they seem to be afraid to raise the flag cause, you know there is always var to points "Absolute truth" 😏


That might very well be true. I do think refs seem more hesitant now, and often just waiting for VAR to bail them out 🤣

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I always thought that VAR is essential for things like World Cup [to avoid final goal in England 1966 or Maradona's hand]. You cant wait 4 years for a tournament only to be fooked by referee like in Korea 2002. Is it needed in leagues? Maybe in final stages, lets say last 10 matches? Until then maybe go old school and no VAR?

Champions League involves too much money so i think var is essential there. You cant get thrown out of competition because of fookin offside goal and lose 20mln. For example team from my country played Panathinaikos in final CL qualifier and they scored a correct goal that was called off. Thanks to that they went into financial crisis that is prevailed to this day.  

I think something like tennis challenges maybe could work in football. Every coach could have 2-3 var challenges [if the check stands they dont lose them]. Refs are now lazy and are afraid to make any decision and having var every fookin 10mins is making the game insufferable. And the bigest problem with VAR is that even with this technology the refs are still making painfully bad decisions. Most of all it looks like that they just ignore some sticky situations with the help of TV that doesnt show the replay of it. 

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@jerry wrote:

 

Champions League involves too much money so i think var is essential there. You cant get thrown out of competition because of fookin offside goal and lose 20mln. For example team from my country played Panathinaikos in final CL qualifier and they scored a correct goal that was called off. Thanks to that they went into financial crisis that is prevailed to this day.  

That is quite poor bankroll management if one cancelled goal slips your team to troubles. CEO went big and then he went home :D

There is many small things that ain't called right yet big influence of match. Lets take notorious supertoto match Barca- Osasuna for example. In the end better team rightfully won 😛 but not because of right calls from ref. He gave Barca two freekick from 20 metres as totally gifts. In other one Rakitic tripped Osasuna player yet Barca had freekick. In that one Messi missed slightly goal. In other one Suarez had slight touch and went down to his knees faster than Kim Kardashian in her prime days, from  that Messi scored which was expected cause from that distance he often do score.

Sure it don't mean that if can't make game perfect that you couldn't try to improve at least some aspect of game but it will never be perfect no matterwhat they bring up. In long run variance equals things out like in poker :laugh:

If they are thinking about next improvement, imo it should be step back and let refs do their joc and use var only to call mistakes that refs don't see :)

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