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How delayed live bets work?


psrquack

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Hey guys,

yesterday I put a live bet on tennis. Match was suspended so I get back the buyin of my bet today. Some minutes ago my received a mail, that my account was modified and they reduced the original stake due the match continued and my bet lost.

Please let me know what are the rules giving back the original stake if the match is terminated(timeframe, is this work prematch or live bets etc).

Is there any reminder on the homepage that your bet is still running albeit you got the refund to avoid the situation when you are thinking you have more money  than your current balance?

Is there any place on the homepage where you can check your not showing but running bets status?

Thank you.

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@psrquack, not skipping them at all, I wouldn't dare.

But what I would like is to provide a comprehensive explanation which covers most if not all of your questions. I shall be back with more info as soon as I have a broader understanding over what happened.

 

/Ray

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Former Community Moderator
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I know you are ready asking all the questions @RayL, but I think it's not so easy as it seems. Personally I'm a little bit sad that you are the victim who needs sorting this out (it would be awesome job for the new mods if you wanna scare them out😏), because answers will occur more questions. I hope your contact person will be one of the master of the occupation and could give a proper answer all of them.

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@psrquack I'm not sure why the bet was first voided and then later settled as lost - that sounds like a manuel error in the settlement process, but the general rule is that all bets on tennis matches finished within the tournament framework are to be settled the match completes.

/Jeppe

Former Community Manager
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@psrquack, and an answer came in regarding this specific bet and it's settlement. After checking, the bets in this match were mistakenly settled as void after the match was interrupted. Once the match has resumed, bets were then resettled accordingly once the match was completed.
https://www.sofascore.com/fiquet-jeanjean-boulais-pielet/XpDcsxtDc
I've seen it happen a couple of times and the reasoning is that basically the bets were initially settled with a particular outcome which was wrong due to an error and then re settled with the correct outcome based on the market that the bet was placed on. Sorry about the whole confusion. :Disappointed:.

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Ok @RayL , now it's time to use your superpower, because the answer described what happened and was already mentioned in my first post. Means I'm totally dissatisfying with the answer. Now I'm wating for answers to the rest of my question and we all know you won't dare skip that so please could you give me proper answers? Thank you.

 

 

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A couple of things before we get tangled up in the small details @psrquack:

"yesterday I put a live bet on tennis. Match was suspended so I get back the buyin of my bet today. Some minutes ago my received a mail, that my account was modified and they reduced the original stake due the match continued and my bet lost."

Indeed, your explanation perfectly matches Kambi's response:
Match is suspended -> Bets are voided in error -> Traders realize error and reverse voided bets -> Bets are settled accordingly. 

"Please let me know what are the rules giving back the original stake if the match is terminated(timeframe, is this work prematch or live bets etc)."

If the match is "Terminated" and by that we mean that it successfully finished then your bets are paid automatically, goes without saying.
If by "Terminated" you mean interrupted or suspended and won't be played in the foreseeable future then the bets are voided within 36 hours.
If there is an official re scheduling of the match and that match is played within 72 hours of the original start time the bets remain valid, if it's after 72 hours, they are voided.

"Is there any reminder on the homepage that your bet is still running albeit you got the refund to avoid the situation when you are thinking you have more money  than your current balance?"

From the moment these bets are voided, they are considered as settled. Now if in the meantime it turns out that they were voided in error and we need to reverse the funds, than that's dealt with on a case by case basis. 
To answer the question, no, there is no reminder, because the bets are considered as settled from the moment of settlement until up to the point that an error with that specific bet is confirmed. But again, this can't be generalized, it goes on a case by case basis.

"Is there any place on the homepage where you can check your not showing but running bets status?"

By not showing but running we are referring to a bet that might be reversed right? In that case no because as mentioned above the bets are considered as settled from the moment of settlement until up to the point that an error with that specific bet is confirmed. 

 

It's a nasty little error, I understand that. You have winnings and suddenly you don't. The later settlement is correct, but this transaction causes confusion. I wish there would be another way to settle this but this is the system, this is how it works and errors although rare, especially the ones of this type, they happen. 

If you wish to keep going with this, please feel free to ask, but I will need concrete questions to concrete problems @psrquack. The ramifications of an open question like some of the above are vast, time consuming to research and answer, and even if I do my best to answer them, there's always the possibility that that's not exactly what you were interested in, thus a waste of both of our time.
All the necessary information is found in the betting rules sorted by sport, tennis being C.28. But as mentioned, I am happy to address any concrete  bet that you have placed, or any imagined situation as long as it to the point.

/Ray

 

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Thanks @RayL , that's what I can call an answer. I appreciate your effort. So let me epitomaze what happened.

I placed bet on live tennis match (the prediction was the winner of second set). The game was stopped and suspended. The rules say:

"If there is an official re scheduling of the match and that match is played within 72 hours of the original start time the bets remain valid, if it's after 72 hours, they are voided."

Somebody (human or system) acted against the rules and voided my bet. Or in other words: "After checking, the bets in this match were mistakenly settled as void"(official Kambi answer). Do we have any further information why this happened?

Some hours later the interruption was over and players started to play again. Before this happen my live bet already transformed to settled and might be supervised bet and lost all the benefits of the live bet as the

  • traceableness
  • flexibility
  • cash out option.

As you can see the first and against the rules act by Kambi occured a situation in where I could find a wrong status of my bet (void) but is was pending when the second set started (remember the 72 hours rule), and I also wasn't able using the special abilities of the live bet (because it didn't appear in my ongoing bet section again).

Long story short: due to the company's mistake my live bet transformed to prematch bet which was invisible in my pending bets pool, showed wrong status but was evaluated correctly.

Conclusion: Current live betting provider can't handle the situation when they wrongly voided a bet and can't put them back to live status when the match started after a suspension within the 72 hours period.

Do we have any further information why they voided my bet and acted against the rules?

 

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I've had couple of those, with kambi and other, and got my account to negative balance because of them. Lesson learned: better to wait for a while or doublecheck elsewhere if you think something fishy is going on (like in this case bet was voided obviously too soon) or win is significant enough that you don't want to deposit later just to cover it (been there, done that)

So does it really matter why it happened? Like you quacked, it is either human or techinical error. And only real solution to those never happen again would be that bets would be double/treble checked by provider and settled more slowly but who wants that?

Idk if redusing number of matches that you can bet on would help, imo there is too much these days. Night and morning time it is ok when there is not many ongoing matches but is every lower league necessary in prime time of betting? You can only bet them on low stakes and i would think exchange ain't too big on those so no loss to anyone.

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Wrong setteling events are everywhere. Be happy that your matches are settled good. I had problems on other sportsbook where i need to upload the videos of the match on youtube to be settled good because they we saying the bet is settled good.

It was a mistake which it doesn't happen every day. 

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Guys, the main problem is the contract between me and Unibet was for a live bet with all pros and cons. They did a mistake and transferred the live bet to prematch bet without asking me about that or sending me a warning to recheck my bet status. I accept if they can do it, but if so then please support this with sentences from TC not only with error happened. If that would happen with the wrongly evaluated bet then I wouldn't say any word, but in this case they should reset my bet to pending status (and deduce the sum from my account ofc) as the second set went live again, because we were within the 72 hours period.

@Livertool: for me it's important who did it, because I want to understand how the system works.

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@psrquack wrote:

Guys, the main problem is the contract between me and Unibet was for a live bet with all pros and cons. They did a mistake and transferred the live bet to prematch bet without asking me about that or sending me a warning to recheck my bet status. I accept if they can do it, but if so then please support this with sentences from TC not only with error happened. If that would happen with the wrongly evaluated bet then I wouldn't say any word, but in this case they should reset my bet to pending status (and deduce the sum from my account ofc) as the second set went live again, because we were within the 72 hours period.

@Livertool: for me it's important who did it, because I want to understand how the system works.


That is fine by me but idk if you are hunting answers that none will tell and therefore just wasting your time getting hunged up on that. Sometimes easier just let go and learn from others mistakes and don't trust that every bet is settled 100% correct and i don't think it will help you in the future even if you can know what caused problem this time, next time it could be different.

In the end everything was settled right, right?

And i am actually surprised that you had any email that outcome of bet had changed and balance reducted. I never had any.

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@LivertoolI understand your point of view and sometimes it seems better to move along, but if I won't ask the questions which have rarely answering rate things will never change. For example the common case handling in cases like this are usually following the "error happened, move along" sentence as final decision. I hope they will change the policy and will tell customers what was the type of the error, who occused that and what will they do to avoid this in the future. I think this is big step towards to gain trust from customers and cooperating as partner.

In this case I'm really curious how could the wrong decision fit to their TC (the void of the bet) and which paragraph gives them a right changing the bet type from live bet to prematch bet without letting that know towards the customer. If they will send a mail to all customers next time and will attract attention that the live bet will turn to prematch bet and the already voided sum could be change depending of the final outcome of the match that would be a good step forward.

I also would like to copy the mail when they let me know my account balance was changed but it wasn't written in english so I don't see any point to do it.

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Yeah, trying to improve is always good obviously and i would imagine that they are trying to do that and avoid mistakes in Kambi/Unibet too. There is no benefit of wrong settlements for any party, only more work and pissed off customers. So in that way i don't see urge to know every detail why it happened cause it won't change a thing but it could take time out of other customers needs, something that cs can actually help with.

In other words, give poor reiska some slack 😛

One thing i didn't understand though, why was livebet turned to prematch? Do you mean just that you couldn't see it and have option to cash out?

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@psrquack I understand the frustration of the bet being settled the way it was, from the T&C there are two points I think apply here:

 PSRTC1.PNG.72a2cd8b621511bf2522c71b9bb3bd45.PNG

Simply put, all Tennis bets are always settled as per the T&C as long as the match is completed when the tournament is running.

As for your bet effectively being changed from a live to pre-match bet, I belive this technically covers it:

PSRTC2.PNG.dae299854f9c5f347d64a299d4b18507.PNG

I don't disagree that an email or on-site message about the wrongful void of bet going out would be nice and it's something we can suggest, but I'm not sure if for the rare instances where this kind of wrongful settlement does happen, that the resources aren't better spent collecting the data and correcting the issue as fast as possible. 

/Jeppe

Former Community Manager
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@Livertool wrote:

 

One thing i didn't understand though, why was livebet turned to prematch? Do you mean just that you couldn't see it and have option to cash out?


When they  voided the bet I got back the stake but in the background I had a running bet and I didn't have any information about it. It didn't appear in the live bet section (you know on the right side of the site), my history also didn't state that this bet is still pending. I lost all the opportunity tracking the bet's progress and using the benefits of live bets like odds change or possible cash out. That's technically a prematch bet.

@JeppeL: my answer depends on if your words are the final and official statement from Unibet or just a helping hand to understand better what happened? If we are talking about the second case could you please add which type of error happened when the bet was voided, who made the bet void and which regulation was used and why this regulation isn't contrary to the 72 hours rule?

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@psrquack I believe that any final statement should serve as a helping hand for a better understand of what has happened, and personally I think we've been pretty clear in outlining what happened on this bet.

- The error that happened was a settlement error, where live bets placed on the match that should have been paused where instead incorrectly voided.
- The error was made by a live trader within the sportsbook, I'm neither going to look for a specific name or publish it here, as we never hand out employer details due to past cases of personal threats along with other security concerns. 
- No regulation was used for the voiding of the bets, they were supposed to have been paused - hence why we're using the words "error" and "mistake" when describing what happened. The bets where re-settled not in line with the 72 hour rule, but in line with the rules for tennis - which are that all matches played within the tournament framework are to bet settled. There are specifc rules for this in regards to tennis, as matches are often paused and delayed due to bad weather. 
- All live bets that were mistakenly voided initially, were then re-settled in accordance with the rules for tennis, that a mentioned states that all matches played within the tournament framework are to be settled. 

/Jeppe

Former Community Manager
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Thanks for clearing me that. Now if i'm correct an employee wanted to pause the live bet till it starts again but that happened.

"The error was made by a live trader within the sportsbook, I'm neither going to look for a specific name or publish it here, as we never hand out employer details due to past cases of personal threats along with other security concerns."

I also didn't want to know the name only if it was made by a human or a system. Now I know albeit your rules said "but in line with the rules for tennis - which are that all matches played within the tournament framework are to bet settled." if an employee make something against the rules all the responsibility goes to customer.

If this correct:

"All live bets that were mistakenly voided initially, were then re-settled in accordance with the rules for tennis, that a mentioned states that all matches played within the tournament framework are to be settled." then could you please answer:

-if it was re-settled why didn't appear in my ongoing live bets section?

-if it was re-settled why didn't appear in my betting history?

-if it was re-settled why couldn't I find the bet anywhere as a running one?

I appreciate your help and answers @JeppeL .

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