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WuDu Rank 21
Rank 21

The handball by Otamendi against Schalke was a stupid VAR decision, you're right. He was even pulling his arm back. But this one today by Kimpembe you can absolutely agree with. He looks at the ManUtd player, jumps and slightly pulls up his arm thus enlarging the total surface of his body.

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Livertool Rank 24
Rank 24

I´m with @GR1ZZL3R  on this one. Sure he was slightly bigger but i think it was rather natural movement than intentional. You can all try jumping like that with holding your arms to your thighs and see how well you do Very Happy

But i´m happy thta PSG is out so welldone VAR. Not right decision yet awesome Smirk

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Unibet Poker Expert Stubbe-Unibet
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I agree with every handball penalty call made so far, and both in the Bundesliga and CL it looks like they've almost started using what's hopefully going to be the new handball rules: "It appears that the change, if put forward, would remove the word “deliberately” and define handball as to do with the hand or arm being in an unnatural position at the point of contact. Agreeing what is an unnatural position might also be tricky but one proposal is for it to be defined as if the ball strikes the arm above shoulder height. It would also be an offence if the ball hits the arm below shoulder height but in an unnatural position, which could be defined as more than eight o’clock or four o’clock from the body. Any goal scored after striking the arm of an attacking player would be disallowed".

VAR is great for the sport already, and it's going to be even better. Even if you don't agree with the call made yesterday, you can't blame VAR for it. The video assistant referee did not make the call. Skomina watched the replay several times from different angles and made as informed a call as its possible.
To me it's a clear handball.

@WuDu, the fact that Otamendi is moving his hand towards his body at the very moment the ball hits, that doesn't (and imo shouldn't) make any difference at all. Only thing that should count is the position of the hand when there's contact.

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WuDu Rank 21
Rank 21

@Livertool wrote:

I´m with @GR1ZZL3R  on this one. Sure he was slightly bigger but i think it was rather natural movement than intentional. You can all try jumping like that with holding your arms to your thighs and see how well you do Very Happy


 You know, nobody forced Kimpembe to jump! giphy

kimpembe1.PNG

kimpembe2.PNG

Nice extra surface he gained there to block the shot. If that's not totally on purpose, I don't know what is. Laugh

@Stubbe-Unibet 

otamendi.png

Caligiuri is launching full force from 7-8 meters away, Otamendi is pulling his arm behind his body. Look at the tape, his arm was totally loose when he was shot. That's not a penalty!

 

 

 

We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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Livertool Rank 24
Rank 24

@WuDu wrote:

@Livertool wrote:

I´m with @GR1ZZL3R  on this one. Sure he was slightly bigger but i think it was rather natural movement than intentional. You can all try jumping like that with holding your arms to your thighs and see how well you do Very Happy


 You know, nobody forced Kimpembe to jump!


Yeah but that is usually what defending players do. Try to get block shots by jumping, crouching etc Very Happy

Point is, although some say different, var changes nothing. Even if you go over and over situations there is always room for second opinions. I wouldnt mind if they would use it for clear mistakes by referee or something they didnt see. But it is what it is Annoyed

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Unibet Poker Expert Stubbe-Unibet
Unibet Poker Expert

@Livertool wrote:

Point is, although some say different, var changes nothing. 


VAR changes everything. Obvious wrong calls affecting the outcome of the game are not possible anymore. The only reason there're issues today is the way some rules are written. There's too much room for interpretation today, the handball rule being a perfect example. You might not agree with every call made involving VAR, but it helps the referee to always make an informed decision. The refs are human and the rules can be interpreted, but that's got nothing to do with VAR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpazjQOGi-M

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Livertool Rank 24
Rank 24

@Stubbe-Unibet wrote:

@Livertool wrote:

Point is, although some say different, var changes nothing. 


VAR changes everything. Obvious wrong calls affecting the outcome of the game are not possible anymore. The only reason there're issues today is the way some rules are written. There's too much room for interpretation today, the handball rule being a perfect example. You might not agree with every call made involving VAR, but it helps the referee to always make an informed decision. The refs are human and the rules can be interpreted, but that's got nothing to do with VAR.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NpazjQOGi-M


LOL, you troll.

Like in that Ajax - RM first leg. There is a lot of doubt. Was he offside, was he affecting the play... You could remove that player in front of gk but he wouldn´t never got to that ball. 

But anyone can believe what they want Lovekiss

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GR1ZZL3R Rank 23
Rank 23

My main issue with VAR, although it has and is being used to clear up some mistakes, is that it is supposed to be used to correct "clear errors" and "clear and obvious" errors. An incident occurs, the referee waves away the penalty claims then gets a call that VAR is reviewing the situation. They look at the incident from many different angles, then decide there is no case to answer, or say it is a penalty, without consultation, or ask the referee to review it again. It's this last case that causes an issue, as after reviewing and not coming to a decision it seems to me there has not been a "clear and obvious" error, simply because they can't decide in less than a couple of minutes. If an error is clear and obvious it should be able to be called pretty quickly and not after 2 or more minutes.

As for the hand ball incidents, they are open to interpretation, but now it seems if the ball hits your arm it's a penalty when your trying to move your arm out of the way, away from your body, into your body or even behind your body, imo clearly what Oatamendi was trying to do. If the strike had been from 5 yards further out he would have had time to get his arm behind his back, no penalty, if the ball had come from nearer he wouldn't have had time to move, penalty, but the fact he's trying to do the right thing and not handle the ball is not taken into account just seems wrong to me. All footballers seem to say no penalty, all referees are saying penalty, so it seems the referees are dictating how a footballer uses his arms, naturally or not, is not to be considered.Wonder

@Stubbe-Unibet  "Obvious wrong calls affecting the outcome of the game are not possible anymore."  I'll leave that one for the time being, it's open to interpretation.Rofl

 

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Livertool Rank 24
Rank 24

Amen to @GR1ZZL3R 

If you think about why rules are made, you understand football.

Was offside invented cause peoples obsession to know if attacker was 1 millimeter offside? No, just that attacker don´t get any advantage to get to ball over defender or you can´t leave your attacker to opponents goal and wait for someone to kick the ball to him.

Was handball rule invented so players must move like statues with hands glued to body? No, you just can´t play ball with your hands.

And so on.

You can´t get football perfect unless you put all sorts of sensors in players that measures with what pressure players are pulled, pushed, kicked, who goes first over which line and what time etc.

And if you are that obsessed that everything goes absolutely right and no room for conversation, chess might be good sport for you to watch. Boring as hell but who cares as everything is perfect Tongue

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GR1ZZL3R Rank 23
Rank 23

I've got to agree @Livertool any game that involves interpretation of rules is going to cause controversy and discussion, all part of life. You get your money all-in pre-flop, the cards come out and there it is, you win or lose, no interpretation of rules needed, the discussion is all about wether you should have shoved or called. In fast moving physical games mistakes are going to me made, by players and officials, but these usually even out over the long run, call it variance if you like. No matter how many officials or cameras you use mistakes will still be made, maybe fewer and fewer as more technology is added, and over the long run these should even out, some for you and some against. If a game ever became 100% perfect it would surely lose that human element, no discussions afterwards, no controversies, no rights and wrongs, we lost 1-0 and the referee was 99% right and VAR correctly righted the only small mistake, life is perfect so move on. It could become a little boring. Interpretation can be highly subjective as this thread is showing, it all adds to the debate.

I'm not against VAR only the use of it for decisions that are not "clear and obvious" errors, what is going to be the upper time limit on making a decision? What is going to be the criteria for arms in an unnatural position? How long before some scientist studies photos and clips from every angle and says the arms were 3 degrees inside the limit for unnaturalness(Wonder) so it shouldn't have been a penalty and his team is going to sue UEFA as they should be in the final. This might sound a bit fanciful but in the long run these things have a way of expanding far beyond what they were intended for. Seriously I don't think things will get too much further down those roads but I'm trying to make a point, your "clear" mistake is shoving the turn with middle pair, my "clear and obvious" error is calling with bottom pair and hitting trips on the river.Rofl It can all be a bit subjective. 

As you say, who wants boring?

 

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