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NBA Division Futures/Bets Clarification


Lime

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Can we please get some clarification on how NBA division futures will be handled going foward by Unibet?

As these bets are still live and have not been voided my assumption is that you will grade these based on the completed standings at the end of each teams 8 seeding games to the teams who lead their respective divisions in line with the NBA's official tiebreakers/ results.

Some books such as BEt365 have already clarified for me that, yes this is how they are going to be handling these bets. Other books such as Willian Hill have clarified that no, as the format of the season has changed and in line with their policy these bets are void and I have already been refunded.

I have however received no clarification of the above one way or the other from Unibet. I'm a long time loyal customer and currently have over £5,000 worth of open NBA bets with you. I've tried contacting live support numerous times to no avail. Of all the sportsbook I deal with Unibet has been by far the least forthcoming. 

To be clear- I am not asking for these to be graded and settled, I am simply asking what is Unibet's current policy and position assuming the 8 regular season seeding games are completed successfully. I think as customers this is a fair expectation particuarly given the amount of my money you are holding onto.

I would be beyond outraged if you continued to hold onto my money for the next 2 months only to decide, actually we're not going to pay these out. Clarification is all that i'm asking for.

Best,

 

 

 

 

 

 

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@Lime Your assumption is correct, the reason these haven't been settled yet is because the regular season has not completed and thus the final regular season standings are not yet available for our Sportsbook to settle bets from.
There's another member on here who's questioned if that is the correct way to go in terms of settlement, so we're pushing the Sportsbook a bit to clarify for us why we are doing it the way we are. We'll keep you updated!

/Jeppe

Former Community Manager
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Respond here please, I would like the response to be public. I'm a moderator on a number betting forums and will be linking this thread because I know I speak for others who are just as frustrated.

And I just wanted to express how deeply dissapointed I am overall in Unibet's punctuality and general lack of communication to it's players during this period. I wholeheartedly understand that there is a global pandemic occuring but of all your competitors- which I likely frequent possibly every single one:

Bet365, Betfair, Paddypower, William Hill, Betway, Skybet, Betstars, Bwin to name the largest

Each were all at least able to cobble together a response to me, and I say dissapointed because Unibet has otherwise been one of my favourite books to bet on with with one of the nicer user interfaces but I definitely feel let down here as a long time customer. 

To hold onto the money of your customers at a difficult time like this not less with no explanation, guidance, timeline or explanation or what you're doing is just an appaling look.

I have precedent for how all my other books are handling these so i'll be keeping a very close on Unibet's decisions here given how long you have had to come up with one. I've been keeping up with every other thread of a similar nature including ChuckBassPokers NHL thread so I must say i'm not optimistic but I won't be one to accept what I deem to be unfair treatment here.

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@JeppeL  Thank you for getting back to me. I totally understand why they're not settled and I'm not pushing for settlement as in my original post. It doesn't matter to me either way as long as it's communicated to us however Unibet livechat, twitter, facebook have been less than helpful thus far hence the frustration.

You're holding £5k of my money with no indication that these bets are even live. I think it's reasonable to just want to be kept in the loop.

Thank you for responding though, I look foward to your reply.

 

 

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Not big deal to me as don't have much money involved but anyways i am having big difficulties to understand or believe that unibet wouldn't have sit down and figure out these thing about six months ago when they started close leagues. Like they did with uo and turned them to online. Even harder to understand  still the lack of ability to choose any direction they are going to go from now when clearly nhl season is over and all nba bets are over like stated in bet desciption like seen in picture.

bet.jpg.51af604a10ca09caf292b1b6bd42e353.jpg

While you get your customers pissed off and bad experience, what are you trying to get out of this delaying? Beats me...

I doubt this behaviour encourages customers to play more on your site so you are just sawing branch you are standing on.

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It's not same thing like with the poker tournament. If on poker it was Unibet part, on sportsbook they have a provider that is managing all of the rules and results. And of course the sportsbook provider have multiple clients, including in US. So they have to make all the clients happy which is impossible.

 

 

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@Lime wrote:

@JeppeL  Thank you for getting back to me. I totally understand why they're not settled and I'm not pushing for settlement as in my original post. It doesn't matter to me either way as long as it's communicated to us however Unibet livechat, twitter, facebook have been less than helpful thus far hence the frustration.

You're holding £5k of my money with no indication that these bets are even live. I think it's reasonable to just want to be kept in the loop.

Thank you for responding though, I look foward to your reply.

 

 


@Lime I understood that you weren't pushing for anything in your OP, but just a clarification. I'm curious to hear your personal opinion though(as long as it's unbiased 😃), how do you feel would be the best way to deal with these season bets from our side?

Former Community Manager
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To me, and based on what other books are doing I think I personally think it's clear that

  • NBA championship and NBA conference winner bets should stay live and this is the currently the case at all the books i've checked. No complaints and this seems fair
  • NBA Season total wins/losses, any bets which had mathmatically hit prior to the delay should be honored. The rest should be cancelled. Majority of books have an 81/82 game minimum for these to be live so there's precedent to void there. I understand that some books are honoring those bets which hit would be a gesture of goodwill from the book, but wouldn't argue if Unibet decided to cancel all of these as well
  • Season long players awards such as MVP, DPOY, ROY, 6th Man of the year should stay live and this is the case with all other books too
  • NBA division futures  - This is the interesting one and only one in my opinion which is a judgement call by the book, either to be based on the books policy or defaulting to official guidance from the league where there is no policy in place. Those that have been refunded, refunded me weeks ago, those that are keeping these live (the majority) are obviously still pending. The difficulty here is that because you haven't already refunded these the longer you hold onto these the more Unibet is signalling that these are live (which is totally fine by me), but will make it incredibly difficult to then go on to void these given how long you've held onto monies for if you do end up deciding to void. 

 

Thus, my gripe is that we have no confirmation if the division futures are actually live or not because the bets being pending would be correct if that is in fact Unibets position. We just haven't been told if they are is the problem.

And to clarify, I personally have no championship, conference or season total futures, and am indifferent to how the bets I do hold are handled. Of course you will have players holding futures on the "wrong" side of these futures complaining but it would be very difficult for them vast majority of bettors to argue with the above if this is how Unibet handled it.

The judgment call bet of those I have listed above are the division winners and these are the only ones where I don't see an obvious way to settle hence me trying to get an answer here.

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@JeppeL wrote:


I'm curious to hear your personal opinion though(as long as it's unbiased 😃), how do you feel would be the best way to deal with these season bets from our side?

No disrespect but overall what is the matter how he/she feels would be best way when you are going to do your way anyways?

Isn't this suppose to be mainly place where you get things settled rather fullfilling staffs curiosity :wonder:

And if you read between lines that is what customers are asking here, that you make any decision at all so they can  deal with further more ;)

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@JeppeL I see it like this

  • If you void everything now, you are going to make any bettors holding "poor" tickets happy at the expense of infuriating everyone else, particularly because of how long you've been holding on to the money for
  • If you honor everything, you'll have the inverse. "Poor" ticket bettors will whine, everyone else will be happy.

 

I say this to say: you cannot and will not make everybody happy, therefore it is of utmost importance in my opinion that whatever position Unibet does take is objective, logical, defensible by written policy or defaulting to league guidance where there is no comprehensive policy in place, because people will whine and throw tantrums depending on which side they are on, and you will need to answer with something concrete.

Any signalling by the book that it is not being impartial and settling in its own favour where it is not backed by written policy or something concrete would be a disaster and definitely cause some reputational damage.

I'd have no arguement or retort if Unibet were to say, we're defaulting to the league's official guidance, bets will therefore remain live and pending until otherwise, but you have to tell us that if this is the case. It might seem obvious but to hear it officially is important.

The only other way I can see to do this is, void those division bets for those who want them voided, leave those live that want them live, but I understand this would leave Unibet exposed on both sides so the chances of this are low.

By the way if its possible to speak on the phone, I am open to this.

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Hey, 

ReCorpH, how was the meeting yesterday, what are the news?

Well, I have posted already on this topic what I think is happening. 

1. NBA season under/over

2. NBA division winner futures

Obviously some of them might be placed as winner or lossers due to the 8 remaining games, so that the difference between 82-(75-72) =7-10 games (depends on team) is greater or lower. 

 

For example in the case of division winner.

Heat is currently +11 games and they need to be +10 games at the end of those incoming 8 games to win. So I understand It's play on.

Bucks are +14,  and need to be +10 to win, which is very likely to happen.

Rest of the teams there is a high chance they will be voided

I just wanna make sure, will this actually happen, or unibet have better idea? 

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Bucks and the Heat have both infact mathmatically won their divisions, they cannot be overtaken in the 8 remainaing games even if they lose every single one and the teams in 2nd win every single one so the above is a great point

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It's been even worse regarding NHL bets. The NHL regular season was over way before NBA, and Unibet still haven't paid out (or voided) bets. It's been 37 days. Regarding my bets, they settled nearly everything as a loss in categories where there are no results (bets based on player stats over an 82-game season), and the bets such as division winners where there actually are results they still haven't paid out winnings. I have no idea wtf is going on but this is one huge mess and it seems to me that NBA bettors have it pretty good comparatively speaking.

Blows my mind how Unibet has managed to make such a ridiculous mess over a simple thing when every other bookie took less than 24 hours to settle everything fair and square.

See thread: https://www.unibetcommunity.com/t5/Betting-and-Sports/NHL-Season-bets/td-p/331778

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@ChuckBassPoker wrote:

It's been even worse regarding NHL bets. The NHL regular season was over way before NBA, and Unibet still haven't paid out (or voided) bets. It's been 37 days. Regarding my bets, they settled nearly everything as a loss in categories where there are no results (bets based on player stats over an 82-game season), and the bets such as division winners where there actually are results they still haven't paid out winnings. I have no idea wtf is going on but this is one huge mess and it seems to me that NBA bettors have it pretty good comparatively speaking.

 

Blows my mind how Unibet has managed to make such a ridiculous mess over a simple thing when every other bookie took less than 24 hours to settle everything fair and square.

 

See thread: https://www.unibetcommunity.com/t5/Betting-and-Sports/NHL-Season-bets/td-p/331778


Yup, this was my point too in earlier post even if it seemed like to be rude.

So don't waste your time to write how you think it should be settled cause it don't matter horse:Heart::Hearts::Heart:. Instead demand them to make some decision to settle them in one way or other and then you can go from there whether accept it or complain about it.

And not saying this cause i like to be evil or want to bust someones balls, just from customers side (i would expect staff to feel same way if tables would turn) And sports betting expert would be highly appriciated to show up here so customers wouldn't have to complain to mods here who have nothing to do with settling bets. Poker problems work out fine and we even had casino expert too (dunno if anymore cause haven't been seen) so why not some chief from betting section too?

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@ChuckBassPoker 

I've actually been keeping up with your thread with heavy interest since you posted it. I have NHL division bets on other sites so was curious how they'd be handled here.

It definitely hasn't been the best to say the least but I appreciate that Jeppe and the other mods are at least acknowledging and trying solve the issue.

My educated guess is that the traders and odds compilers are far more distinct from Unibet than we'd imagine and likely sit within their own entity. 888 and Unibet share the same odds compilers so I wouldn't be surpised if they are totally 3rd party. That is likely where the information disconnect is happening because this level of service is not consistant with my general Unibet experience which is positive, but I guess this pandemic has exposed this weakness in the books operation.

@Livertool and totally agree that getting a trader who is responsible in the decision making process and settling these bets would make infinitely more sense and would likely be a lot quicker to answer our queries directly and explain their reasoning. 

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@Lime wrote:

@ChuckBassPoker 

I've actually been keeping up with your thread with heavy interest since you posted it. I have NHL division bets on other sites so was curious how they'd be handled here.

It definitely hasn't been the best to say the least but I appreciate that Jeppe and the other mods are at least acknowledging and trying solve the issue.

My educated guess is that the traders and odds compilers are far more distinct from Unibet than we'd imagine and likely sit within their own entity. 888 and Unibet share the same odds compilers so I wouldn't be surpised if they are totally 3rd party. That is likely where the information disconnect is happening because this level of service is not consistant with my general Unibet experience which is positive, but I guess this pandemic has exposed this weakness in the books operation.

@Livertool and totally agree that getting a trader who is responsible in the decision making process and settling these bets would make infinitely more sense and would likely be a lot quicker to answer our queries directly and explain their reasoning. 


Yeah, just trying to give you heads up that don't matter how you feel about things should be settled so it is just waste of time ;) Sure they can ask you friendly questions how you feel etc (especially that you told that you are mod in many forums and they don't want negative reviews) but feelings to my experience don't mean nothing.

And after all there is only couple ways to go:

1.Bets stand as they were (except season bets that can't happen cause not all matches can be played)

2. Void all bets (they probly loose some money over it but hey, there is no winners with corona(well maybe few company)).

3.Put banner or email to customers would they like to leave their bets or void them.

4. Settle all bets as lost.

5. Mixture of 1-4

So question is how many months does it take to figure it out cause delying it won't take it anywhere for many reaons: is there second wave of corona, does nba season even start, nhl already over so no surprises in there. 

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@kullfitre 

Not sure I understand your math here Kullfitre but I think you're missing something. The division winner is simply the team with the most wins or in this case with the higher winning percentage at the end of the season, it's not relative to 82 games.

This 8 game truncated schedule is all the regular season there will be this year. Obviously the Pacers being 12 games behind with 8 games to go cannot catch the Bucks. This is the same as in the NHL and is exactly what has happened this year, every team leading the regular season as of when play was suspended has officially been crowned the Division champion (my NON Unibet bet have been graded as Wins accordingly)

NBA division champions are not graded the same as NBA team over/under bets where there is a minimum game requirement to void because you are not shooting for a specific number of Wins and where the number of games played directly affects your chances. It is simply the team who has the most wins in the division at the end of the regular season.

My expecation for any books who didn't have a minimum games player criteria in their policy is that these division futures will remain live, the same as MVP and all the other player awards, conference wnner and championship winner though I'd still want to hear it officially from Unibet.

So if you are holding onto Bucks division futures, those have mathmatically clinched no matter what happens to these bets and I would be expecting to be paid for those regardless of what they do with the other division bets.

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@Limegood post, and I think what you posted here is a solid theory (sorry my quoting skills suck):

"My educated guess is that the traders and odds compilers are far more distinct from Unibet than we'd imagine and likely sit within their own entity. 888 and Unibet share the same odds compilers so I wouldn't be surpised if they are totally 3rd party. That is likely where the information disconnect is happening because this level of service is not consistant with my general Unibet experience which is positive, but I guess this pandemic has exposed this weakness in the books operation."

It's just been such an absurdly long time that's it's beyond unacceptable at this point. Like I don't care if hackers stole all their money and that's why they can't afford to pay us, but there should have been some meaningful communication a LONG time ago. I'm not sure when exactly the NBA results become official, but I'm guessing 2-3 weeks ago. With NHL it's been 5 weeks and the money is still stuck and there's been no statement, no emails to players, nothing. Dodgy as heck, no way around it. The pandemic really isn't an excuse either because it's been blatantly obvious since mid-march what will most likely happen with the regular seasons. There should have been a plan in place by early April.


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@ChuckBassPoker 

Totally unrelated but are you the Finnish Chuck Bass from 2+2?  If so.. small world.

You'll get no arguements from me. I'm generally as patient as they come when it relates to sportsbooks but I agree that the pandemic is no longer an excuse when every other book has by now been able to clarify their position. It's been more than long enough and I do find my confidence and trust in the book fading the longer this drags on. Even though I have no NHL futures here it's a brightly lit red flag for me. We shall see what happens to the NBA futures.

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@Lime

What are you talking about is absolutely ridiculous. You say that all regular season games are cancelled and only 8 seeding games matter for division winner? It's the weirdest thing I ever heard. First look for information then start writing.

 

"How will playoff seeding work?

 

The seven teams in each conference with the best records (regular-season games + seeding games) will have clinched a playoff spot. The usual tie-breaker scenarios will be in place for those seeds. The eighth seed could potentially come down to a play-in tournament"

 

You don't understand how this will work? Why I have to explain it so many times. You have 82 games total. Each team played ~64 games so far. Plus 8 seeding games(which are just continuation, nothing else really) that's around ~72 games. Substract that from 82.

Simple math. It's 10games. So team must have 11 games advantage or everything is void.

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@kullfitre  Sorry but you're just wrong, I wrote a very lengthy post for you but deleted it because honestly it won't do us any good argueing about it here and frankly doesn't matter to me nor will it affect settlement outcome either way.

All I will say to you is prepare yourself for disappointment if this is what you think because I have checked with 11 sportsbook so far and only William Hill which has the specific wording in their policy have voided the bets, the rest take Bet365's stance below, including those without specific policy wording.

Whether you think it is right or wrong the below is likely what you will get. I can only imagine Unibet will be doing the same otherwise these would have already been voided. However, lets just wait and see what they comfirm for us. Our opinions do not matter anyways.

l.thumb.JPG.ebfc6a966bf413f41f2d859ecbb25f91.JPG

Oh and FYI. Quoting you here:

"The seven teams in each conference with the best records (regular-season games + seeding games) will have clinched a playoff spot. The usual tie-breaker scenarios will be in place for those seeds. The eighth seed could potentially come down to a play-in tournament"

Here are the usual tie-breaker scenarios from the NBA's own rulebook.

Capture.thumb.JPG.4e0d4861ca61fbc2ec80c526059f34d3.JPGIf the usual tie-breaker scenarios apply at the end of the 8 games, it would be pretty difficult to break a tie with Division winners if there will be no official division winners at the end of the 8 game's don't you think :)

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