Why were heads up sng removed?

[DrCold]

As a lover of heads up sng they were the best part of the Unibet experience for me and stood out as something that separated Unibet from the rest of the crowd. I felt like the format was nice, there was no reserving of tables and no "mafia" like they have on some other sites etc. I felt like they were fair, fun and immediate action without having to wait for hours on end for someone to show up to play . I'm curious to know why were they removed?

[Uni-Rep]

A new chapter in the history of Unibet poker - Unibet Poker

There's a bit of info there, and you should be able to find older threads on the topic as well, where I explain some of the issues.

To keep it brief:

1. Poland market exit and market migrations having a huge impact on traffic for HU SNG specifically
2. It's just not a game that's very good for the product ecosystem as a whole - not having the game is likely to ultimately be for the better, even if we will take a revenue hit in the short term.

[DrCold]

Ok, I think I read somewhere that it was referred as a "predatory format" and "easily solvable". To my judgement neither of those held true. You really can't hunt for anyone in those because of the anonymous tables. And the easily solvable part is just a wierd argument. Sure it's relatively easy to solve when you for example call with 0-10bb stack or shove, but that very same argument could then be presented for Banzai, tournaments or to an extent any format where at one point you can engage your opponent heads up or have 0-10bb stack preflop. Doesn't make sense for me to get rid of HU sng while keeping 5 man sng.

Also the way I see it, if some recreational player would want to splash around and play some poker with the intention of A) not waiting for too long and B) getting straight into action with  C) a decent possibility of winning against even the toughest of pro's, there really isn't a replacement for HU sng. I can give my guarantee that splashing around and doing silly stuff in those is going to lead to having tons more equity than doing that in 100bb cash games. This change will ultimately lead to a more unpleasant playing experience.

So once again just want to make my point crystal clear: with the Unibet format in heads up sng there really wasn't that much of an edge for even the toughest of pros. Even if your opponent is just shoving 100% pf all in you were never guaranteed to win. In fact I don't think anyone could win over 65% of times even vs that kind of very basic strategy. That's what made them interesting and fun for all, for the recreationals and for the regs.

Well, I am fully aware that these kind of decisions are not going to get reversed, but still felt the need to state that this all was very likely a big mistake and express my unhappiness. Hopefully I will end up finding a replacement from some other site. I guess all things do come to an end eventually, had lots of fun and am going to miss them. Thanks for that though.

[tomvogel]

I have to agree with you Dr cold. I think unibet doesnt see what a lot of heads up players do see in the hu game. Its a very pure and fun game. Its also good to begin with, to understand ranges etc. Practicing for hu in tournaments etc. Besides the quality of the game, there is another aspect, and that is the anonymous software. There is no bumhunting, and the hu game on unibet is the most fair, in the world ( i am not joking haha). Its unique, and fun for everyone. I think unibet doesnt seem to view the game that way. The traffic was less, comapring to previous years. But instead of pushing the most beautifull game in poker, they cut it. It makes me kinda sad. I played for 10 years, with so much fun. Please reply on this message if you find some alternative game. or contact me on IG @tomwiggerss. GL 

[Uni-Rep]

1 hour ago, DrCold said:

Ok, I think I read somewhere that it was referred as a "predatory format" and "easily solvable". To my judgement neither of those held true. You really can't hunt for anyone in those because of the anonymous tables. And the easily solvable part is just a wierd argument. Sure it's relatively easy to solve when you for example call with 0-10bb stack or shove, but that very same argument could then be presented for Banzai, tournaments or to an extent any format where at one point you can engage your opponent heads up or have 0-10bb stack preflop. Doesn't make sense for me to get rid of HU sng while keeping 5 man sng.

Also the way I see it, if some recreational player would want to splash around and play some poker with the intention of A) not waiting for too long and B) getting straight into action with  C) a decent possibility of winning against even the toughest of pro's, there really isn't a replacement for HU sng. I can give my guarantee that splashing around and doing silly stuff in those is going to lead to having tons more equity than doing that in 100bb cash games. This change will ultimately lead to a more unpleasant playing experience.

So once again just want to make my point crystal clear: with the Unibet format in heads up sng there really wasn't that much of an edge for even the toughest of pros. Even if your opponent is just shoving 100% pf all in you were never guaranteed to win. In fact I don't think anyone could win over 65% of times even vs that kind of very basic strategy. That's what made them interesting and fun for all, for the recreationals and for the regs.

Well, I am fully aware that these kind of decisions are not going to get reversed, but still felt the need to state that this all was very likely a big mistake and express my unhappiness. Hopefully I will end up finding a replacement from some other site. I guess all things do come to an end eventually, had lots of fun and am going to miss them. Thanks for that though.

Just want to stress that this is not a decision made based on gut feeling. It's a decision based on data and how players engage with the different game types.

I understand the frustration, but this is the best for the site as a whole.

[DrCold]

Very well said. They were unique as far as I have come across on different sites. Basically anything else UB has to offer in poker is not, every site has tournaments, leaderboards, a form of hexapro, loyalty programs, emotes etc. You name it and the others have it.

What they didn't have was a fun format of poker where the field is evened between the regs and beginners in a way that that doesn't entirely take away the effect of skill, but undermined it. They were a great combination, and as you mentioned more "fair" than I have come across anywhere else. If I would have been the one responsible with decisions I would have taken what separated UB from the rest, what they had managed to do better than their competitions and then taken full advantage of that. They should have definitely promoted these instead of doing promos on stuff like Hexapro. There could have been exclusively HU tickets as loyalty rewards, maybe HU tournaments where promo stuff are awarded and titles like "Unibet HU champion" etc.  Lots of possibilies. I will update you Tom if I ever find a replacement.

[JanPatat]

Damn I really liked these Heads up's. 
Hope Unibet will put these back online

[OnionGuy]

Sad. Really enjoyed these.

I think It would have been good to only allow players to sit and wait at only one buy-in level. 50-200$ was pretty much always hold up by the same reg.

0gogogo must be having a tough day seing these disappear.

[TiltingMyWay]

On 06/11/2024 at 13:46, Stubbe-Unibet said:

A new chapter in the history of Unibet poker - Unibet Poker

There's a bit of info there, and you should be able to find older threads on the topic as well, where I explain some of the issues.

To keep it brief:

1. Poland market exit and market migrations having a huge impact on traffic for HU SNG specifically
2. It's just not a game that's very good for the product ecosystem as a whole - not having the game is likely to ultimately be for the better, even if we will take a revenue hit in the short term.

After raising the rake I assumed you were making enough money from HUs via rake, that they would be safe. (Relative high rake due - no HUD/HHs to analyze easily/able to play 5 alias simultaniously/blind lobbies/no table organizers/Slow soft).

Was quite disgusted, that this was done with no real warning. I now cashed out everything, but I still have a lot of points that I usually change for HU tickets. Do you have ability to convert those directly to cash?

[TiltingMyWay]

With the rake raise you already killed off a lot of reg battles of the site

[Uni-Rep]

6 minutes ago, TiltingMyWay said:

After raising the rake I assumed you were making enough money from HUs via rake, that they would be safe. (Relative high rake due - no HUD/HHs to analyze easily/able to play 5 alias simultaniously/blind lobbies/no table organizers/Slow soft).

Was quite disgusted, that this was done with no real warning. I now cashed out everything, but I still have a lot of points that I usually change for HU tickets. Do you have ability to convert those directly to cash?

Needless to say I would have loved to communicate it all earlier - always try to be as transparent as possible, hinting at changes several months before they happen. It's been a bit chaotic, and I communicated the change the second I was allowed to explain the bigger picture.

As for your bonus points, it's only fair to exchange these to cash, when you exclusively play a game that was turned off with short notice. All sorted now  

[TiltingMyWay]

9 minutes ago, Stubbe-Unibet said:

Needless to say I would have loved to communicate it all earlier - always try to be as transparent as possible, hinting at changes several months before they happen. It's been a bit chaotic, and I communicated the change the second I was allowed to explain the bigger picture.

As for your bonus points, it's only fair to exchange these to cash, when you exclusively play a game that was turned off with short notice. All sorted now  

Ty. 

Going to miss the wild insanity of Unibet HUs that isnt anywhere else due the same weirdnesses I listed - KOH, blind lobbies, all the aliases. 

[dondraper44]

Do you guys know any other site/app where we can play this exact heads up format?

[Xerka23]

@Stubbe-Unibet It is possible to convert my points also? I played also only husng-s and a lot, and i forgot to buy in the last day hu sng tickets! I remember u hinted that is will happens in future (the husng removal), but sill it was a really unpleaseant news. I thought that this year we are safe in that regard. 

[Xerka23]

12 minutes ago, dondraper44 said:

Do you guys know any other site/app where we can play this exact heads up format?

I guess only PS still has Hu Sng-s, but only hyper.

[tomvogel]

Stubbe, instead of saying that you were hinting before, could you maybe tell us the exact reason for the cut of HU games? I think its due to the fact that there are players making a living playing these game? my self included. I would love to get some transparency from you guys. Ive been playing for 10 years on Unibet HUsng. Ive seen the landscape changing , but to completely take it out, that need some more explanation imo. Ive seen some players in the comments (janpatat, onionguy) that i have played against a lot. i wanna thank you for the fun battles we had.  Ogogogo, tequilla, qoormi, to name a few, but also all the 10NL grinders the last couple years, i had a blast. Besides the bitter taste the unibet has given me the last couple years, with this as the final result. I still wanna thank you guys, i also played Unibet open, from bonuspoints,  and traveled with other dutch players to several stops. It was a really good time. Sad that you guys took a different route. The memories remain. GG

[Uni-Rep]

On 06/11/2024 at 14:49, Stubbe-Unibet said:

Just want to stress that this is not a decision made based on gut feeling. It's a decision based on data and how players engage with the different game types.

I understand the frustration, but this is the best for the site as a whole.

 

On 06/11/2024 at 12:46, Stubbe-Unibet said:

A new chapter in the history of Unibet poker - Unibet Poker

There's a bit of info there, and you should be able to find older threads on the topic as well, where I explain some of the issues.

To keep it brief:

1. Poland market exit and market migrations having a huge impact on traffic for HU SNG specifically
2. It's just not a game that's very good for the product ecosystem as a whole - not having the game is likely to ultimately be for the better, even if we will take a revenue hit in the short term.

See above

I might write a blog post later, with some more insight into the decision.

[Fk]

Yip

Going to miss these.

 

[Jefff]

Shame they have gone.

[ViperPP]

+1 on the disappointment. HUSNG was still my favorite format because it is still highly skill based while being short enough. When you only have 30’ other tourney formats are not doable. But I guess they rather push those players to the crapshoots named hexapro.