GR1ZZL3R Posted February 3, 2023 Author Share Posted February 3, 2023 (edited) Fifty six minutes of 6 tabling, 505 hands played, 90 flops seen and €9.21 lost. Edited February 3, 2023 by GR1ZZL3R 1 "It turns out that 75% of all poker players think they play better than the other 75%." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GR1ZZL3R Posted February 3, 2023 Author Share Posted February 3, 2023 (edited) Part 2 went much better. Forty four minutes, 2 tables. 169 hands €4.08 to the good. And I'm quite happy with the amount played, not putting pressure on myself is good. Edited February 3, 2023 by GR1ZZL3R 1 1 "It turns out that 75% of all poker players think they play better than the other 75%." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GR1ZZL3R Posted February 3, 2023 Author Share Posted February 3, 2023 2 "It turns out that 75% of all poker players think they play better than the other 75%." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardGain Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 I don't know what it is but when there are missions and tokens to collect im always falling into some strange loop. Ordinary variance hits also, no monster holds, ecc. 6 BI down in a week (i know, no big deal).Seems I have to tighten my already tight and nitty style of play. I found out that it takes 1,5h playing 5 tables to reach 90 flops 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GR1ZZL3R Posted February 4, 2023 Author Share Posted February 4, 2023 From your figures @HardGainI'd think we were about as nitty as each other, and I'm not alone with this then. I keep saying I'll play what I want when I want as much (or as little) as I want then get sucked into playing more for longer. I was pushing up to 4-5-6 tables at 5-10c just to see the flops more quickly when I know it's not good for my game but not really wanting to play too long. The two tickets is my attempt to have the best of both worlds. 🤨 1 "It turns out that 75% of all poker players think they play better than the other 75%." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GR1ZZL3R Posted February 4, 2023 Author Share Posted February 4, 2023 Having said all that it can become too easy to fall into the trap of becoming too tight. Playing a long session and nitting it up too much makes the game boring and not a lot of fun, if you're not seeing flops then you're simply cutting down on opportunities to win hands. I think I took it too far and lost a lot of enjoyment from the game, but am now finding more balance, slowly but surely. A rarely spotted sight. Twenty minutes in and six tables, all with more than 100 BBs, none of them having been topped up. 🤑 It didn't last but I still finished ahead on enough. 🙂 The one thing I do find myself doing when chasing targets is tending to nit up too much near the end, either to preserve what gains I have or to prevent further losses. During normal sessions I can call a halt anytime I want, win a big pot and sit out (I don't always because I know how annoying it can be) but with a target how frustrating is it to be well ahead near the end then some lucky so and so stacks you when you go all in with AA? New Discord channel opening soon, Nits R Us. 😛 1 "It turns out that 75% of all poker players think they play better than the other 75%." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShcherbyna Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 1 hour ago, GR1ZZL3R said: The one thing I do find myself doing when chasing targets is tending to nit up too much near the end, either to preserve what gains I have or to prevent further losses. This is so familiar to me and incredibly maddening. How many years in poker, but still from time to time it is important for me to finish THIS SESSION in the plus. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardGain Posted February 4, 2023 Share Posted February 4, 2023 As i'm also playing only NL4 here and find myself in your own statements I believe we are overthinking when playing with opponents at this level. The majority of them don't think at all, what ranges?! Therefore they're not respecting continuation bets if they hold an Ace they will call call call til the end, and if they are calling all the streets and bombing the rivers (I am sure you see that a lot on that limit) you are more all less pot commited if betting strong. Seems that nowadays I really dont know how to adapt. I try to Cbet more/ less, don't play marginal hands, or don't go crazy with them, bet strong/week when I have a good hand, but in the end still seems nothing of that works good. On the other side, we really lose value if we close ourself in a tight misery. Will see in the evening, weekends are crazy usually 🙂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GR1ZZL3R Posted February 4, 2023 Author Share Posted February 4, 2023 1 hour ago, SShcherbyna said: This is so familiar to me and incredibly maddening. How many years in poker, but still from time to time it is important for me to finish THIS SESSION in the plus. A lot of things I do or that happen to me I think of as being unique, silly I know but that's how the mind works. It used to drive me mad as seemingly time after time If I was in front then win a decent pot, I'd attempt to just see out the "free" hands before stopping, get dealt AA or KK (well you have to play them or you'd have left straight away) and lose a big pot. Absolutely maddening. We know that poker is one continuous session and stopping today whether in front or behind makes no difference in the long run, but perceptions can be misleading. 15 minutes ago, HardGain said: As i'm also playing only NL4 here and find myself in your own statements I believe we are overthinking when playing with opponents at this level. The majority of them don't think at all, what ranges?! Therefore they're not respecting continuation bets if they hold an Ace they will call call call til the end, and if they are calling all the streets and bombing the rivers (I am sure you see that a lot on that limit) you are more all less pot commited if betting strong. Seems that nowadays I really dont know how to adapt. I try to Cbet more/ less, don't play marginal hands, or don't go crazy with them, bet strong/week when I have a good hand, but in the end still seems nothing of that works good. On the other side, we really lose value if we close ourself in a tight misery. Will see in the evening, weekends are crazy usually 🙂 I totally agree with you and am now playing fit or fold, even treating TPTK with suspicion. I seem to see the big pots coming from unremarkable hands, a flop of 962 rainbow doesn't scare anyone and they'll happily stack off with overpairs against your set. That's why I'm now happy calling (in position) with 87s or 55, flopping the odd straight or even a house can be fun. 🤑 2 "It turns out that 75% of all poker players think they play better than the other 75%." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GR1ZZL3R Posted February 5, 2023 Author Share Posted February 5, 2023 (edited) I'm showing this hand, not because it has any particular merit, it's very basic, but it does illustrate a couple of points discussed yesterday, one of them on Discord. I'm playing 2-4c and attempting to see 90 flops. I reach my target so click the "sit out next BB on all tables" and 5 shut down, this is the absolutely last hand I'm playing today at 2-4c. I'm about 80 BBs down and this is the first pair of Aces I've been dealt today. The table has been fairly passive except for villain on the button, so I see a perfect storm brewing, a chance to test the limp raise theory and should you sit out immediately your target is reached. Totally expected. 👍 Not totally expected but fine, only one thing to do and see where it takes us.🤔 This time things went well, 🙂 my cognitive bias suggests disaster. The result isn't all that important really, it was just strange that the circumstances arose at the so soon after two points were discussed and this hand came up to illustrate both. Conclusions: Always limp AA against aggros, and always play your "free" hands*. Ultimately 7c down on the day, 😭 ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- * Data sample size of 1 hand may not necessarily reflect real life. Edited February 5, 2023 by GR1ZZL3R 1 "It turns out that 75% of all poker players think they play better than the other 75%." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShcherbyna Posted February 5, 2023 Share Posted February 5, 2023 (edited) 47 minutes ago, GR1ZZL3R said: Conclusions: Always limp AA against aggros, and always play your "free" hands*. Allow me to disagree with you. Unlike the situation you described in Discord (we need a few more sites for the community to finally get confused about where and what they were talking about😁), this hand would have ended the same way if you had made an open raise, a cooler is a cooler. Limping makes sense only if there is information that the opponent will attack these limps, and even then a large sample and analysis is required, which is impossible in Unibet's reality. The only more or less workable option for open limps with top hands is when you are on the SB against the BB, but again, if the opponent is very aggressive (but not stupid and won't go with garbage to watch the flop), then the raise-3bet-4bet- strategy fold will make more money than limp-raise-3bet-fold. My personal sample (on other sites) in MTT for 2022 shows that limped QQ+ bring less profit bb/100 than open raises with these cards, the truth is that the sample is small, only 22 situations (half of them are headsup on SB) with limp . Edited February 5, 2023 by SShcherbyna 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GR1ZZL3R Posted February 5, 2023 Author Share Posted February 5, 2023 1 hour ago, SShcherbyna said: Allow me to disagree with you. I do agree with all you said there but.. 1 hour ago, GR1ZZL3R said: * Data sample size of 1 hand may not necessarily reflect real life. 1 "It turns out that 75% of all poker players think they play better than the other 75%." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GR1ZZL3R Posted February 10, 2023 Author Share Posted February 10, 2023 (edited) Tighten up or open up. Going through a rough patch (losing) I decided it was because I'm not concentrating enough on my decisions. I know 6 tables is a slow stroll for today's generation, a few seconds is the maximum concentration span for some. Instead of watching 1 video for twenty minutes they'd rather watch 40 vids for 30 seconds each, but I find if three or four hands are going down at once I'm rushing decisions and not reading situations properly, resulting in losses, more rushing to get back even, more losses and yet another vicious cycle continues. I've been playing 6 tables of 2-4, basically to see 90 flops as quick as I can, gaining no satisfaction or fun from the process, while at the same time, after a break, playing 2 tables of 5-10 and having some success in building the ticket back up again. I can't really say that's the miracle solution, again it's comparing tiny sample sizes, but anything to get the mental balance steadied is ok by me. So yesterday it was time to step down, 2 tables of 2-4 no matter how long it takes. I was going out yesterday so played an hour in the morning. I tend to only play an hour at a time anyway, taking a break for 5 minutes, so nothing unusual. 176 hands, 26 flops and a few € up. About three in the afternoon it was time for another stab, but this time very different, two tables of the nittiest play ever seen, especially for a 2-4 game. There weren't any big stacks, 120 BBs at the most , but on both tables, 4 players common to both including me, every hand followed a predictable pattern. Fold, fold, raise, fold, fold, fold. Or fold, fold, raise, three bet, fold, fold. Occasionally the monotony would be broken by a rare attempt at a call, or an even rarer 4 bet, me included, and a rare flop be seen, resulting in loads of checking down. The odd time I or anyone else for that matter tried to combat this we were slapped down, as though a mindset was in place that no one was allowed to disrupt. I should have moved tables to be honest but I seemed to be in a trance wondering who would be the first to crack. Ultimately I lasted an hour, 229 hands played, far more than normal as we weren't really playing any, a tiny 7 (I think) flops seen, and a soul destroying 7c loss😱 but I did get dealt the most atrocious dross as well. AA twice, once folded all the way to me in the BB and once folded all the way when I raised from UTG. 🤬 So after a ten minute break and a cup of strong tea it was back to it. Two tables with a change of identity, one table happened to be the same as far as I could tell, same three players in same positions with similar stacks, but two shorter stacks as well, maybe more action would ensue. Anyway I made 88 flops, got dealt JJ on both tables, raised on both, the flop came on both, so I clicked the sit out next BB button, but there was still drama to come. Being a couple of € ahead I sometimes go into defence mode, I don't want what is a winning session to turn into a losing one, it seems to happen so often right at the end, so I quite willingly checked down both hands. Nobody on either table showed any fight so I won both hands, breathed a sigh of relief, relatively happy, but then... got dealt KK the next hand. This is what drives ne mad, because I knew with absolute 100% certainty this was a set up and I was going into the evening blazing mad. I raised 3 BB, small blind re-raised and big blind called, so with a sinking heart I 4 bet, hoping against hope they were both trying it on and would fold. Well that didn't work. I know it's a set up but I can't possibly fold but one or the other has AA or a big pair and one is bound to hit but I should be ahead but if I fold I'll finish just ahead a win is a win but if I fold and would have won I would be madder than ever but if I call and lose I'll be mad anyway but... stop right there. It was always going to be all in wasn't it, wtf are you getting in a tizzy for, call the damned thing and get it over with. Spoiler One hour 20 mins, 312 hands 57 flops, €10.29 ahead. Happy days and so much fun. 🥳 Edited February 10, 2023 by GR1ZZL3R 7 "It turns out that 75% of all poker players think they play better than the other 75%." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P0kerM0nk Posted February 11, 2023 Share Posted February 11, 2023 Never folding KK 100bb deep ever! I rather see the AA and cry than fold KK 😆 And you should change tables if you don't like em, there are enough tables going the lower the stake you play so no excuse. I even leave tables with tight passive fish on it as even vs those it can be hard to win a decent pot. Why stay on a table with nits if you could be playing 1 or 2 maniacs on another table. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardGain Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 8 hours ago, P0kerM0nk said: Never folding KK 100bb deep ever! I rather see the AA and cry than fold KK 😆 We all know that 🙂 Im not fearing AA, Ax is enough. I have to check how many times KK holded the last 5 days. It was carnage, exept yesterday, when my KK was cracked only once 😋 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GR1ZZL3R Posted February 12, 2023 Author Share Posted February 12, 2023 11 hours ago, P0kerM0nk said: Never folding KK 100bb deep ever! I rather see the AA and cry than fold KK 😆 3 hours ago, HardGain said: We all know that 🙂 Im not fearing AA, Ax is enough. I was never going to fold KK there, I cannot ever remember folding them pre. It's funny but I was trying to illustrate all the negative thoughts that can cram your mind when you need to think clearly, even though no clear thoughts were needed as the decision to ship all the chips if necessary had been made long before. Let's just say we were 200 BBs effective, are we folding then? I don't think so! How about 300? 400? What is the limit? Is there one? It was 160 BBs at 2-4c, about €6. Would you have folded at 25-50? Would you fold 500 BBs deep at 200-400? I can't answer these questions yet, I may never be in the situation where I can, Id like some answers please from those that have. 2 "It turns out that 75% of all poker players think they play better than the other 75%." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P0kerM0nk Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 It gets more interesting when you are 200BB+ deep and maybe on 4NL it doesn't really matter too much but once you go higher up and a nitreg 5b you big with 200BB deep it's probably AA 😂 The deeper you are the more postflop I would play anyway so facing an all in that deep whilst I have KK would probably push me vs a fold all depending on villain though. You need to keep an eye on how people play and the reg pool in general is still very nitty and passive overall. Have played a while at 50NL now and I see a lot of QQ flats pre lol. Maybe they think Im a bloody nit too who knows! 🤣 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShcherbyna Posted February 12, 2023 Share Posted February 12, 2023 (edited) It doesn't matter if it's NL4 or NL4k, if you're playing with a bankroll, it doesn't matter. The size of the stack, in my opinion, does not affect much either, once in 500BB or 5 times in 100BB - it will only affect the variance. Only the analysis of the opponent's actions and its possible range is important. And opponents, of course, play differently depending on the limits and effective stacks. Therefore, my final opinion is as follows: Limits and an effective stack affect decision-making, but not directly, but depending on the analysis of the enemy's actions. Spam detected. 300 messages on the forum.🥳 Edited February 12, 2023 by SShcherbyna 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GR1ZZL3R Posted February 14, 2023 Author Share Posted February 14, 2023 (edited) "Who's kidding who?" or "Let's play chicken!" Edited February 14, 2023 by GR1ZZL3R 5 "It turns out that 75% of all poker players think they play better than the other 75%." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GR1ZZL3R Posted February 14, 2023 Author Share Posted February 14, 2023 Limping Aces, part 2. And the latest score is 2-0! 😂 3 "It turns out that 75% of all poker players think they play better than the other 75%." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
P0kerM0nk Posted February 14, 2023 Share Posted February 14, 2023 I feel for you, all the missed value with AA, what if he had a 4? lol 2nd AA, why aren't you full stacked? And if you never limp and then limp raise and SB is a reg it's pointless, I've come across it and I just insta fold whilst mumbling *smartass* and only value you got is the few blinds. It's so obvious it's not even worth doing unless the whole table is full of aggro mugs. And ouch, posting all these pictures, those are a lot of screenshots 😂 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GR1ZZL3R Posted February 14, 2023 Author Share Posted February 14, 2023 21 minutes ago, P0kerM0nk said: I feel for you, all the missed value with AA, what if he had a 4? lol I knew villain had nothing and it was purely a case of seeing how long it would go. It's something I've seen occasionally, min raises one after another, but it was just one of those things that took over. It may be silly but... 🙂 24 minutes ago, P0kerM0nk said: 2nd AA, why aren't you full stacked? If I've just lost a hand and another is dealt while I'm on another table then I can miss the top up, it gets annoying so many extra clicks sometimes I'll go a few rounds before topping up. 27 minutes ago, P0kerM0nk said: And if you never limp and then limp raise and SB is a reg it's pointless, It really does depend on villain, I only do it in certain circumstances and against a certain type of player, I've won 1 full stack and been folded to once. The other thing which I've not got round to checking yet is I've done the limp raise with trash and got a few through, definitely against regs. Don't forget I'm a rec and boredom can make you do funny things. 🤣 30 minutes ago, P0kerM0nk said: And ouch, posting all these pictures, those are a lot of screenshots 😂 I have a lot of time on my hands, I don't try to play 62 squillion hands a day, a few hundred are plenty for me. Then checking the racing cards, maybe a bit of roulette and it's then preferable to thumb twiddling. 🙂 2 "It turns out that 75% of all poker players think they play better than the other 75%." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GR1ZZL3R Posted February 22, 2023 Author Share Posted February 22, 2023 (edited) The more I play the more I'm coming to the realisation that poker and I are not compatible. The swings up leave me too high , the inevitable swings down leave me too low, but more than that I have a distinct feeling that chasing targets is really really bad for my mind set. Playing enough to make 90 flops per day is a trivial number for the serious players out there, but if I play for an hour, 200 hands, make even 10c profit, I'm happy. Chasing an artificial number for no good reason, (I suppose the value of Banzai Flip tickets is a good reason but who knows) other than to hit an artificial target is not for me. Ninety flops per day would be probably 6-9 hours one tabling, maybe 3-5 hours two tabling, both too long for me, and any more tables I lose concentration and start the slide into despair. I'm playing too quickly, aware that other tables are popping up and demanding attention, so rather than thinking things through at my own steady pace I'm pressing the raise button, moving on to the next table and coming back to see a villain's all in, snap calling with no thought when a few seconds perusal would make it fairly obvious I'm in a bad way. This morning's session was short and bitter, just over 100 hands to lose the remaining €14 on the 2-4c 🎟️more or less deliberately or more probably fatalistically, just to get the pain over and leaving me free to concentrate on the 5-10c 🎟️at my own pace. That's not in a fantastic state but hopefully I think it's possibly recoverable, maybe. 🤔 Forty hours, 12,000 hands and €40 loss, not pretty. I could rant and rave about bad luck, (that's the one thing I have plenty of 😂) bad players, bad flops, bad turns, bad rivers, but I think that's doing the modern thing of finding anyone or anything to blame but oneself, so rather than wallow in self pity it's time to be positive. I have to get through, something to do maybe this afternoon, half a €100 5-10c 🎟️to complete, a €5 community league 🎟️,a €250 UO 🎟️, UB as usual behind the rest of the world in announcing venues 😂and 80,000 BP's to play around with. Life on the poker tables may not be great (at least for me) but I can and will turn this around. It's all in the mind. Edited February 22, 2023 by GR1ZZL3R 1 2 "It turns out that 75% of all poker players think they play better than the other 75%." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SShcherbyna Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 Yes, your chart isn't very good, but to be fair it should be understood that it is ONLY 12,000 hands. Of course, this does not cancel the need to look for your shortcomings, but you should not despair either. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GR1ZZL3R Posted February 23, 2023 Author Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) Bronze: 103-5-95 Silver: 13---11 Gold: 1---5 Total: Won 117 Chopped 5 Lost 111 Returns: 580 BP's 2 x €1 Banzai 1 x €2 Banzai 2 x €5 Banzai. Longest winning streak: 6 twice Longest losing streak: 10 I had a about halfway through when I considered was it worth it winning 🎟️🎟️ which I wouldn't even enjoy playing, then something clicked and I realised they were Banzai and not Hexa. 🙂 Flipping good. 👍 Edited February 23, 2023 by GR1ZZL3R 3 "It turns out that 75% of all poker players think they play better than the other 75%." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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