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Vaccine on/vaccine off


Livertool
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I actually find conversation about covid/vaccines quite boring as none knows anothing for certainty, all we have is educated and not so educated guessing. Just wanted to ask this (without derailing buli thread again) will uneffiency of current vaccines against omicron, and if/when it spreads as rapidly warned, be concidered fault of people who haven't got vaccine which are minority or majority who has got shot. Which group is responcible if ICUs get filled up?

https://www.ft.com/content/27def1b9-b9c8-47a5-8e06-72e432e0838f

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Von der Leyen can come and try to give me that shot herself and see how it goes 😄

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/01/eu-must-consider-mandatory-covid-jabs-says-von-der-leyen

Or they can come up with something that actually works in big picture with this situation and i will volunteer to take it.

What will it be remains to be seen...

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5 hours ago, Livertool said:

Von der Leyen can come and try to give me that shot herself and see how it goes 😄

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/dec/01/eu-must-consider-mandatory-covid-jabs-says-von-der-leyen

Or they can come up with something that actually works in big picture with this situation and i will volunteer to take it.

What will it be remains to be seen...

 

You still haven't understood it so far, have you? It's not about public health or saving people, it's about control. The politicians here in Germany have lied so much, you have to be a clueless boomer to not see the big picture. Forget about masks, social distancing, washing your hands and closing of shops and other facilities for a second. Just regarding the vaccinations, it went from:

  • We have some vaccines. We encourage all vulnerable people to take it. 
  • Save yourself and others and stop the spread.
  • It's just one little jab and then we can live normal again.
  • OK, 2 little jabs to be on the save side.
  • We need to vaccinate more people to reach herd immunity, at least 50 60 70 80 100 %.
  • Hey, we just "found out", "boosters" are really helping, we encourage the vulnerable people to get some.
  • BOOSTERS, everybody BOOSTER NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
  • There will not be mandatory vaccinations of the general population (a few weeks before the election).
  •  A few weeks after the election: Mandatory vaccinations for everybody twice a year!

The politicians here will do everything in their power to keep the scamdemic alive. Why keep it at 2 jabs per year? Make it 3 or 4 or order monthly shots. People are getting angry, time for a new mutant version of the virus. It will be interesting to see what happens next, this country is on such a downward spiral since Merkel took over, this is just the icing on the cake.

Edited by WuDu
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We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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1 hour ago, GLENGYLE said:

has it crossed your mind that its something they have never dealt with before

and they just dont know the best solutions

and are learning (or not ) as they go along

 

are you blaming Merkel for Covid?

At last (besides Stubbe) a voice of reason. 👍

"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"

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@Livertool  the first is to establish the facts and what we are dealing with:

fact 1: vaccines (each) are in clinical trials -   that is, virtually every person taking a dose becomes the object of the experiment. There is nothing wrong with that, because experiments are allowed -  There is only one problem here and the most important thing, introduced few years after the "games" during World War II i think   - International Law - that the subject of the experiment must be properly informed that he/she  is taking part in it.  This is understandable, because each medical preparation requires time to test possible side effects as soon as possible. Many opponents raise the issues of: fertility, carcinogenic effects - and many other things that a "smaller group" of clinical trials can pick up on.  so question:  whether you know the person or have you been informed clearly and openly about the fact of taking part in the medical experiment. (such a thing must be concluded between the two parties in writing.)

fact 2:  what WHO and medical env.  say about: Does the vaccinated person infect less than the unvaccinated person? this is a rhetorical question, because we all know that vaccines are introduced on the wave of information - that the  disease is easier to pass through. So here's another question: why discriminate against unvaccinated people? why then restrictions on them and tests? 

fact 3: why is so much talked about vaccines and incomparably little about looking for a cure or treatment. I am convinced that they use some in hospitals. Why are doctors who present therapies according to effective (based on drugs that have been in pharmacies for several decades), instead of organizing and looking for answers? 

 

ps, accrd. fact3: Suppose the vaccine is working and the number of people with "light" symptoms - allowing them to function rather than "bed rest" - increases significantly.  What about their impact on the spread of the virus, especially in the elderly and people at risk, who are unlikely to be helped by even the vaccine - because people after taking the vaccine also die in hospitals.

ps2. @WuDu what is happening in Germany now is a drama, hugs. Let me put it this way: cows are treated better. 

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if one does not ask such questions: why the rush, especially in vaccinating people who are not at risk? What will we do if we vaccinate, for example, 95% of societies and in 5, 10, 15 years we will see large increases in other diseases - heart problems, diabetes, leukemia, etc. How to conclude that this is not a vaccine effect if clinical trials were too short and it  can greatly affect younger people  - but how do you check it? if we do not have a suitable comparison group? 

Which countries approved the vaccines without being able to sue the company producing it?

If someone thinks carefully, a medical preparation released in such a way can, over the decades, cause incomparably more damage than the virus itself, which it was supposed to fight. Therefore, clinical tests do not last a year or two before introducing a given drug. Research objects are probably monitored for longer than we think.  

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3 hours ago, GLENGYLE said:

has it crossed your mind that its something they have never dealt with before

image.thumb.png.83e572fe2bf6039bf2670c724f709ef8.png

https://qcovid.org/Calculation/Unvaccinated

1 in 200.000 chance for me to die. 1 in 3.000 to end up in the hospital and being a fit, non-smoking German wasn't even an option for me to chose...

For an overweight 70 year old with all kind of heart, lung and health issues who got vaccinated:

image.thumb.png.d28dadc555ed6ed4c7cfbe637f92d1a7.png

 Let's not pretend that we're dealing with Ebola here...

3 hours ago, GLENGYLE said:

and they just dont know the best solutions

and are learning (or not ) as they go along

Yeah, sure. They must be slow learners then...I'm sorry, but Chancellor and Health Minister are not some kind of entry level trainee positions. These people and everybody else in government in senior positions is getting paid to make the right decisions.  

2 hours ago, GR1ZZL3R said:

At last (besides Stubbe) a voice of reason. 👍

VaxAcceptUBcomm.png.df76951bb9e76c31a0acacd57b2a03b3.png

😄

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We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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8 hours ago, WuDu said:

You still haven't understood it so far, have you? It's not about public health or saving people, it's about control.

Trolling, right? Or forgot everything i've written insane thread.

Just with few words: With every crisis or conflict EU, and Germany in charge, is stealing more and more autonomy of EU countries and now apparently plans go even further to individual level. So yeah it is about control. Told this already but Merkel has done whole lot of better job taking over Europe's lands, recources, funds than Adolf ever did. And what i've read, even worse is coming from Merkel's follower... Good bye democracy. Don't matter who to vote here when strings are pulled more and more from EU.

But anyhow, sure it is learning game. What have we learned?

Are the current vaccines answer to beat covid in pig picture? No

Do they work on individual level? Yes, at least for people with weaker immunity.

 

Seasonal influenza kills and fills up hospitals every year too. Mostly same group of people with weaker immunity. Some take vaccine against it too every year, that is fine. But to force it when it does not help majorority of people anyway, is another thing.

https://www.euro.who.int/en/health-topics/communicable-diseases/influenza/seasonal-influenza/burden-of-influenza

 

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I just (don't) love, how anti-vaxers put a tonne of volume, how smarts they are. And they  always speek against the fkin mandatory vaccine, no matter the life-situation, no chance to being controlled by governement. (LOL)

I really don't give a shit about this whole thing. Vaccine accepted with my 125 IQ and forget this insanity. Just tired of these "smart explanations".

(Yea, for sure lethal illness in 10 years caused by Sputnik and Pfizer, of course, YAY)

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6 hours ago, WuDu said:

 

VaxAcceptUBcomm.png.df76951bb9e76c31a0acacd57b2a03b3.png 

Way way too late, already done, double dose, and boosted as well. Hopefully I won't catch it and pass it on to anyone else. Partly selfish, 34%, partly pragmatic, 34%, partly empathy, 34%, (maths again).  🤞

 

 

 

"How often have I said to you that when you have eliminated the impossible, whatever remains, however improbable, must be the truth?"

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3 hours ago, Livertool said:

Von der Leyen: omg, omicron coming. We are doomed unless we jab everyone.

Doctor: symptoms very mild.

https://www.bbc.com/news/av/uk-59450988

Of course...

New regulations for Germany: Lockdown for the unvaccinated and no fireworks on New Year's Eve. 🥳

I find it funny how sometimes the masks slip and politicians are telling the truth: The PM of Lower-Saxony demanded mandatory vaccinations for "years to come" every 6 months a few days ago. Yesterday, he demanded a National Vaccination Registry to get a better overview on who's vaccinated and who's not. Protection of data privacy, what was that again....😄

 

We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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On Monday got Pfizer_Nr3 and the hottest thing in all three was muscle aches for 1 day and the best sleep of my life, slept like a baby and this is coming from someone that has been sleep-deprived for years. About the governments, I think they truly don't know what they are doing at least the people that take the last decision. I'm not really for or against vaccination but I have always been a sickly individual and had some close relatives that aren't among us from catching covid. #RIP So it's not a time and age where we have hunter-gatherer skills that allow us to go and survive in the wilderness, we, unfortunately, are slaves to this system and its luxuries so regardless if we like it or not we need to make money to survive and from the news this means VaccON. 

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12 hours ago, Sparrow473 said:

I just (don't) love, how anti-vaxers put a tonne of volume, how smarts they are. And they  always speek against the fkin mandatory vaccine, no matter the life-situation, no chance to being controlled by governement. (LOL)

I really don't give a shit about this whole thing. Vaccine accepted with my 125 IQ and forget this insanity. Just tired of these "smart explanations".

(Yea, for sure lethal illness in 10 years caused by Sputnik and Pfizer, of course, YAY)

It's not about being smart or not .

find out how previously similar products were introduced to the market. What restrictions pharmaceutical companies had on their shoulders. How many of them have been removed in the case of the preparations we are talking about? Why do you want to force people whose hospitalization risk is below 0.03%( even 0.1). And if it comes to hospitalization, the chances of recovery are enormous. Why do you want to force people if they can still spread the virus - just like unvaccinated people? Explain this to me ?
Why do you deny others the right to have doubts - especially here when you have a preparation not fully clinically tested. At first they told you about one "shot", then two ... then three ... now they talk about every six months of vaccination. Earlier, when you took part in a medical experiment, you got a certain salary - and now you take an untested product, after which people also die, and in terms of numbers it does not look so optimistic. Yes, yes, of course, we have a new variant, mutations - you know we can have fun like this even in the next 20 years and stuff people with whatever we like. 

I'm even convinced that we may have doubts about the numbers presented to us - i'm curious that "flu deaths" were as easily attributed a few years ago as covid is today (as the main cause of death - i doubt that some doctor put in file: flu as main cause 😄). There is still a panic factor that has been sustained for 2 years, in each country the health system is designed based on statistics - system overload can have dramatic short-term and long-term consequences. 

even today, in many countries, deaths presented to us as: covid-vaccinated, covid-unvaccinated - may be the result of previous blockages in the health system: periodic examinations, access to specialist examinations, people's fear of the hospital and more ...

There is also the so-called financial factor in health care in many countries - a covid patient is worth a lot, even if you enter: covid in the death certificate - another factor that may affect the data reaching us.

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When the guy with the Freddy Kruger profile picture on a gambling forum gives a better analysis than the highly paid clowns on public TV...

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We're gonna win on so many levels! We're gonna win, win, win. You're gonna get so tired of winning, you're gonna say: "Mr. President please, we don't wanna win anymore, it's too much!" And I'm gonna say: "I'm sorry, we're gonna keep winning because we're gonna make America great again!"
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Here is an example of how to give information to a crowd.  Later people with  so-called 125IQ refuse to criticize one and have doubts.

Let's go:

Translate: 

Over 71 percent deaths reported today concern unvaccinated people. This means that of the 502 who died, 359 were not fully immunized.

First comment by  Ministry of Heath:

-> Over 62 percent of those who died after full vaccination, the so-called multi-disease.

-> The average age of those who die after full vaccination is 77 years.

===========================================================

* fully vaccinated (vaccinated with J&J and 2 doses of other preparations)

===========================================================

@Sparrow473how does a person with 125IQ receive this information? Are you missing something? See any weird stuff here?

-  I won't even mention what they told people a few months ago about the two doses.

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1 hour ago, pinki said:

Why do you want to force people whose hospitalization risk is below 0.03%( even 0.1). And if it comes to hospitalization, the chances of recovery are enormous. Why do you want to force people if they can still spread the virus - just like unvaccinated people? Explain this to me ?

This is simple. There're two key aspects:

  • The vaccination will lower the viral load and you aren't as contagious as non-vaccinated. In other words: by getting vaccinated you help protect those that are vulnerable. You help prevent serious restrictions and complete shutdowns
  • The vaccine comes with less significant symptoms than COVID itself

Are there alternatives? Sure, we can implement really extreme restrictions like last year. The vaccine is the best weapon against COVID at the moment. There's so much data now on the impact of the healthcare systems around the world... There's so much data in general on COVID. Data which is completely being ignored in your post.

In Denmark, there are approximately 370% more COVID positive in the non-vaccinated segment vs the vaccinated (as share of population). The difference is even greater when looking at hospitalizations where it's currently 7 per 100k for non-vaccinated and 1.5 per 100k for vaccinated.

I think I made it very clear in another thread that I was all for opening up and as few restrictions as possible; keeping the load at the hospitals at a high level, but not so high that it affects other treatments. This is still the case. It's just ridiculous to refuse the best tool in the toolbox. It's like; please make a hole in the wall with these tools, you're handed a drill and a hammer and you proceed to knock down the wall with the hammer...

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@Stubbe-Unibet 

I have great concerns about these vaccines and their quick release to the market, without testing them in a comprehensive and long-term manner. This is of great importance, especially for young people who are planning to start a family and have I don't know ... 4 children. The number of vaccine preparations administered to humans today is enormous, 

Limitations? People at risk should use them, regardless of covid. Years before covid, I instructed my mother many times, who was having a bad cold, flu many times. (breast cancer, thyroid):
- go for a walk in the park,
- take a bike, go to the countryside
- avoid crowdy places
- avoid shops, that's why you have children and grandchildren to do your shopping. Use neighbors people, social help for the needy, not alcoholics and junkies.
Because here we have the biggest problem, the solution is not to keep young people at home. General informational: how to naturally strengthen your immune system. They should teach such things in schools.

Now I see elderly people running around the shops wearing masks "screaming": I'm a rambo because I took the vaccine! Who is to blame for this? Who is spreading such propaganda?

And everyone behaves as if there were no deaths of this virus, neither would there be any - especially ascribing deaths to people who were probably at risk in a given period - ie. my mother friend with advanced cancer victim covid with @ !! @ # !. This is how we want  build statistics? A few months ago, doctors gave her from 2-6 months. 

As I said before, immunizing the majority of the population would make it virtually impossible to detect potential long-term side effects - without the placebo group (because these vaccines have not been tested in many ways - due to the time, clinical trials are ongoing and people are not informed about it.). Sorry, but an increase in infertility in the vaccinated or their children, for example, could have dramatic consequences in the future. I understand these people's concerns and i can probably take the risk of not participating in this game.

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1 hour ago, Stubbe-Unibet said:

In Denmark, there are approximately 370% more COVID positive in the non-vaccinated segment vs the vaccinated (as share of population). The difference is even greater when looking at hospitalizations where it's currently 7 per 100k for non-vaccinated and 1.5 per 100k for vaccinated.

does your government treat as unvaccinated also those who took only one dose (so-called not fully vaccinated)?
Are there any contraindications for taking the vaccine? If so, what are they?
1.5 or 7 per 100k can be easily discredited if you have complete data - because probably a few cases per 100k are easy to examine: age, current diseases of the patient (which may be the reason for not vaccinating).
So-called loosening the leash when it comes to testing vaccinated people - (I don't know what it looks like in Denmark) -  may be reflected in other statistics, the so-called daily infections 🙂 

In general, dividing people into vaccinated and not is wrong at the bottom. This can lead to that even system "workers" may start treating patients according to their "affiliation". 

ps. I wonder if anyone tried to establish such a commission to study these government statistics in a given country and take a close look at these few cases 😄

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