The poker chit chat

[Pionrj]

1 hour ago, psrquack said:

I have heard this too, but this is not true. More value bets, more folds, play getting closer to Omaha(no cards, no play), but still bluffs, bad calls, sheriff players and lot of bad beats. Again, lot of bad beats.

If you stop bluffing, you will stop winning.

[IanSimpson]

9 hours ago, psrquack said:

I wish an ambassador would joining here not for the giggles   but making hand analysis at least 1 in every two weeks.

I’m more than happy to analyse people’s hands. I do so on my stream regularly. Just come by and ask. 
 

@Livertool - I don’t know where the Trump comment came from. I mean people who resort to name calling when losing a hand of cards. 

[GR1ZZL3R]

9 minutes ago, Livertool said:

For some reason people that speak things as they are, often called as Trump peeps, at least in here.

Why on earth people speaking things as they are are should be called Trumps when he has the lowest percentage of factually correct statements by any public person on social media!  24% at the last count. If you exclude satements such as "This is my wife" then it falls even further. 🤣

 

[Livertool]

34 minutes ago, GR1ZZL3R said:

 

Fact checking 😂

Polls take matter for fact that sleepy reads "political correct" texts made by his staff from prombter while Trump talks as he go and questioned? Sure there can be errors. Not fan of Trump but speaking matters as they are is thumb up from me.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Livertool

[Pionrj]

1 hour ago, Livertool said:

flip coin as 60-40% underdog and make profit in long run

I don't know how much of a gambler are you, but paying 5103 for getting 40% chance to win 19326 is profitable for anyone in long run. 

[100HourChallenge]

2 minutes ago, Pionrj said:

I don't know how much of a gambler are you, but paying 5103 for getting 40% chance to win 19326 is profitable for anyone in long run. 

Exactly. Ian made a semi-bluff on the turn, which would have succeeded 9/10 times. Instead, in this case you re-raised allin with pretty much nothing - AJ high, but at this point Simpson was committed vs anything except for the full houses (which were quite unlikely due to the 3bet preflop).

[Pionrj]

9 minutes ago, 100HourChallenge said:

full houses (which were quite unlikely due to the 3bet preflop).

I want to disagree with this. Only hands which would have made full house on the turn and was unlikely on the PF was T9 and T6. 66, 99, and TT are all potential 3-bet hands pre-flop. But betting 75% on flop makes your hand look only weaker so, those was very unlikely there. 

[WuDu]

11 hours ago, psrquack said:

I wish an ambassador would joining here not for the giggles   but making hand analysis at least 1 in every two weeks.

1 hour ago, GR1ZZL3R said:

Why on earth people speaking things as they are are should be called Trumps when he has the lowest percentage of factually correct statements by any public person on social media!  24% at the last count. If you exclude satements such as "This is my wife" then it falls even furthe

1 hour ago, Livertool said:

Funny that you are caught up with one word that i post, yet you are having public giggle party in your stream about my play thou i was more likely to win pot. Not only for double standards but for fact that as "pro" you don't even seem to know when you make shit desicions makes me think you retard.

Maybe benefits from unibet makes possible you to flip coin as 40% underdog and make profit in long run, that is fine, but would be more pro to me if pro admits that was case. "Sorry lucked out there" would be better that giggle party.

@Livertool going to "war" here reminds me of a 14 year old schoolgirl complaining that the teeth-whitening product being peddled by some instagram-influencer isn't making her more popular with the boys from school. 😁 You're not exactly wrong here, but...

Once you realize that people on social media aren't being recruited to promote products/services due to their expertise but due to their reach, you'll sleep a lot better. 

[Livertool]

As you know his actions, what would it be after river if i would have just called? I mean if he don't hit? Bluff? Check? What? And what do you concider i do after one desicion?

[Pionrj]

Depends which card comes. But if you only call, I don't see any other than a straight or a flush card which could be a lead. But in those situation, if you would have only called neither one of you hit, it's not unusual to bluff even tho it's almost always a loosing play. But a call would have looked so strong there that I just can't think a way how he could have betted any river. 

 

And if the river is not A, I don't think you could bet either there. You have showdown value and all you can hope is that he draw to a flush or straight which he missed.

[Andy-Relax]

Can everyone please stop looking at this as a hand vs hand scenario. Range vs Range Ian is probably much closer to 50/50 or slightly ahead.

 

[psrquack]

3 hours ago, Andy-Unibet said:

Can everyone please stop looking at this as a hand vs hand scenario. Range vs Range Ian is probably much closer to 50/50 or slightly ahead.

 

Could you please add a range what Mr. Simpson could expect as the opponent went allin on turn?

[Andy-Relax]

Plucked from Google as an example what Livertool could have 3-bet pre. 

[Pionrj]

14 minutes ago, psrquack said:

Could you please add a range what Mr. Simpson could expect as the opponent went allin on turn?

Does not really work like that. And Andys chart there is a bit nitty. Or at least I'd by heart that even T8o or T6s are +ev 3-bet hands there. If you take a look at vod for previous hands, Livertool just 3-bet folded PF in a multiway pot from CO. That alone widens his 3-bet bluff range, when you really should not have that much 3-bets which fold to 4-bet against EP from position 300bb deep.

[psrquack]

@Andy-UnibetI think compairing a preflop 3bet range to turn moves is not correct. Mr. Tool made value bets (barrells) and a rr allin. Those moves should shorten the range and make a player thinking about fold with air. As I see fold wasn't an option for Mr. Simpson, what means he skipped the raises+reraises and found something on betting pattern to make Mr. Tool's range callable. Or Mr. Simpson was a luckbox this time.

[Pionrj]

3 minutes ago, psrquack said:

I think compairing a preflop 3bet range to turn moves is not correct.

Of course you have to come up with a range to your villains which is based on the PF action too(and mostly).

6 minutes ago, psrquack said:

Mr. Tool made value bets

There's Zero value bets made on that hand. Zero. Neither one of them wanted the other one to call their bets/raises. And they for sure made it quite obvious along the way.

[psrquack]

13 minutes ago, Pionrj said:

Of course you have to come up with a range to your villains which is based on the PF action too(and mostly).

There's Zero value bets made on that hand. Zero. Neither one of them wanted the other one to call their bets/raises. And they for sure made it quite obvious along the way.

Sorry, I can't agree. You can make a range from previous actions preflop, but after the double raise on flop and turn you should recheck the possible range and put your opponent on even better hands. It might happen that villain is bluffing on every street but in that case you should have a very strong tell/history.

I used the term value bet from Mr. Simpson's point of view means every raise should normally strenghten the villain's hand without any tell. Sorry for any inconvenience.

Edited August 27, 2021 by psrquack

[FreedoM]

Edited August 27, 2021 by FreedoM

[Pionrj]

18 minutes ago, psrquack said:

but after the double raise on flop and turn you should recheck the possible range and put your opponent on even better hands.

Or worse. Like in this case. If you 3-bet bottom of your range, hit it perfectly, and you're in position, why would you ever want your villain to fold?

[psrquack]

8 minutes ago, Pionrj said:

Or worse. Like in this case. If you 3-bet bottom of your range, hit it perfectly, and you're in position, why would you ever want your villain to fold?

Because board is draw heavy(FD+SD) and villain want to get free cards and winning less is much better than c/c and making a crying fold on river when enemy got the cards. It's better to use the pay per view play on every street.

[Pionrj]

5 minutes ago, psrquack said:

Because board is draw heavy(FD+SD) and villain want to get free cards and winning less is much better than c/c and making a crying fold on river when enemy got the cards. It's better to use the pay per view play on every street.

I didn't ay or mean that you should check those boards behind. But this line used here is definitely a loosing line in long run. Like said before, it was played totally wrong. He didn't make his hand look super strong at any point. And what you say in the end, that he should bet for protection. Which is fine, but betting too big or too small doesn't give you any protection.

 

I might run this trough solver this weekend. Even tho this is not even a hand or a spot that is ever very useful to know. Loosing 300bb on a bluff vs bluff scenario doesn't happen that often.

[WuDu]

What would you do?

In the Big Blind, not on the final table, not on the bubble.

Edited August 29, 2021 by WuDu

[cris1285]

8 hours ago, WuDu said:

What would you do?

In the Big Blind, not on the final table, not on the bubble.

Depends what is the style of KerelMaat. Most cases i would fold, but im a chicken.

The main reason i comment: imanem. 12 BB deep, one more player to act, and only calls? 🤔

[WuDu]

18 minutes ago, cris1285 said:

Depends what is the style of KerelMaat. Most cases i would fold, but im a chicken.

The main reason i comment: imanem. 12 BB deep, one more player to act, and only calls? 🤔

No read, no specific behaviour before.

Well, the two callers obviously have a hand that's somehow attractive, but not good enough to raise with. Mostly it will be connectors (including 1-gaps), then suited cards with a minor chance for a small pocket pair. AXs, 76s, KQo, JT to name a few.  

So the options are: Fold, call, some small raise or all-in. 

[Sparrow473]

I am not "that pro" whose opinion you need, but I think there is just one real option: call and prepare to fold or to go all in on flop.😅

EDIT: or allin pre? Is there a rebuy option?

Edited August 30, 2021 by Sparrow473