Withrawal persistently reversed without explanation

[davidovv]

Since dec 24th 2017 i made 4 withdrawal requests, all of them where reversed. I deposited money via skrill or my visa card, more often with skrill. The last deposit with empty account was with skrill. My first two of those four withdrawals were with skrill. The withdrawals were canceled and option to withdraw with skrill was removed. No logical explanation, just that the decision is final. Then i requested withdraw via visa card. I was asked for and sent pictures of credit card, and my credit card was verified. The request was processed but no money on my bank account for two weeks. I was patient because of new year hollidays, but at the end i sent my bank statement, confirming that i havent received anything. The money is reversed back on unibet, no explanation just that my withdrawal was not precessed by the provider, and i was "kindly asked to reqeust a new withdrawal". And i did that again, and again waited for a week, and again no funds on my bank account, and again reversed, and again no explanation.

It looks like unibet decided to deny my witdrawal requests just like that. If this can happen to me it can happen to anyone here. Does anyone have simmilar experiance to confirm? What can i do?

By the way, i am member here since 2015.

[Rushbie]

Hi man, I know English is not the main language for most of us europeans, but did you really try to deposit with some empty account repeatedly? No wonder the company gets on their toes.. :wonder:
Like you said: "The last deposit with empty account was with skrill."

[davidovv]

I ment my last deposit when my unibet account was empty,  so all the winnings should be withdrawn the same  method that was used for deposit, and that is skrill, but skrill was removed from withrawal method options.

[Rushbie]

Ah, alright, hope you get some proper advises from this guy @JeppeL f.e.
(Got no idea who is even working this place nowadays)

[JeppeL]

@davidovv Thank you for letting us know about this! I've looked into it a bit, and let me just say there has been no decision here to cancel your withdrawals on purpose.
What's happened is that the withdrawals has not been completed by the provider and thus transferred back to us, this is the update in the case made on the last withdrawal attempt:

"Withdrawal was not processed by the provider therefore I reversed the withdrawal back to the customer's betting account.

Please ask customer to create a new withdrawal."

Now, that update was made yesterday morning around 11AM, and I sincerely apologize that piece of information not making it out to you!

I've only just looked into the last withdrawal and why what update the Payments Department had, so I could get that information to you right away and you can get your money. But I will be looking more into this and what you describe as getting "no help" from the customer service department.

/Jeppe

 

[JeppeL]

@davidovv I've looked into the contacts a bit more and I do think the communication could've been better from start to finish - a good point of feedback for us actually.

The information in the case that was given from the Payments Analyst who checked it was, that the withdrawal was not processed by the provider(error), and thus returned back on your Unibet account. 
The way our setup works is that we use 3rd party providers to process withdrawals and deposits, when a withdrawal is made, the information goes to the provider and it's at their discression to execute it. If there's an error in that proces from the 3rd party side, we get the funds back to us and add them back to the Unibet account. Now, I guess at that point it would make sense from a customer point of view if we just automatically sent the withdrawal for processing again, but by law in correlation with our gaming license, we're not allowed to create a withdrawal on behalf of a player - it has to be done by the player itself.  

As for the sentence itself: 

"Withdrawal was not processed by the provider therefore I reversed the withdrawal back to the customer's betting account.

Please ask customer to create a new withdrawal."

I find your feedback interesting, having worked here for a while, it's clear to me that there was an error made on the execution of the withdrawal, but having read your description of the case I definitely see why the sentence seems very unclear from a player point of view and doesn't really explain clearly that something went wrong in the process of the withdrawal. I will be passing that feedback on to the relevant teams, so thanks a lot for bringing it here to the community.

In regards to having your withdrawal executed, I have to ask that you please try and create the withdrawal again - if it doesn't work and the 3rd party provider again can't complete it, I'll be sure to have our Payments Team investigate it with the provider and see what we can do - once again apologies for the inconvenience!

/Jeppe

[davidovv]

@JeppeL

The thing is that the transaction was not reversed untill i sent bank statement. Also when I sent mail that i haven't received funds, i was asked to send a bank statement, as proof, so unibet has no info that transaction was not proccessed until they ask their provider. All that for almost a month after the withdrawall was "processed".  Everything coincides with decision to remove skrill as payment option for me, and skrill was fast, easy and efficient, and removing skrill was not done without purpose. . .  And you say there is no purpose to cancel my withrawals... the other option is that unibet has terrible control of withrawals, and that also doesn't look good, and i just dont buy it. Until i see funds on my bank account, or get response like "Withdrawal was not processed because... i will doubt in unibet's intentions

Anyway, I made a new request this morning,, i say the odds are 1.25 that i won't se funds on my account :) , but  we will see by the end of the week.

 

[JeppeL]

@davidovv I appreciate the description, though I disagree with some of it, I'll try and explain the different parts of your post from our pov:

"The thing is that the transaction was not reversed untill i sent bank statement. Also when I sent mail that i haven't received funds, i was asked to send a bank statement, as proof, so unibet has no info that transaction was not proccessed until they ask their provider."

You're right, that it's standard we ask for a screenshot from the bank account, it's to create visual confirmation for us that the money hasn't made it into the account yet. This goes for all payments cases handled through Customer Service, that no information is passed on to the Payments team without the screenshot in question. In cases like these though, I guess it would be nice if we could check from our end the status of the transaction with the provider - I've raised that as a point of feedback for the payments team and they're always willing to at least consider the feedback.

In regards to us not having any information about the transaction not being completed, it really depends on the provider and it differs from one to the other. Some providers automatically send the money back to the corresponding Unibet player account, while others credit them back without specific account information and we have to inquire with the provider to pick the right ones and manually return them to the player account. We've asked in the past to have this process made more effective without much luck, but the Payments team will try and make a point of it again so we could transfer it back correctly.

"And you say there is no purpose to cancel my withrawals... the other option is that unibet has terrible control of withrawals, and that also doesn't look good, and i just dont buy it. Until i see funds on my bank account, or get response like "Withdrawal was not processed because... i will doubt in unibet's intentions"

Your withdrawal was not processed because of a transactional error, it's a big worldwide system and errors happen causing transactions not to be completed. This happens both for bank transfers and credit card transactions, I've heard a general number of 5% error rate, but it's information outside Unibet and I can't confirm it officially. 

I know you doubt our intentions, I gathered that from your original post :), and I've heard it many times before in similar cases here on the community that people believe we do fraudelent behaviour - but I know it's not real and there's always an underlying error/issue. In this instance there was an error on the transaction in the system of the 3rd party payments proivider, combined with the fact that the first case created on the 28th of Jan was manually closed by mistake instead of going back to the Customer Service department with the correct information to be passed on to you - that's why you never heard anything.
If you look around for similar cases made by other members in the past, I believe we're still at the mark where you'll only find one single case of a player not getting his money on a requested withdrawal, and it was because he never sent in the required documents in order for us to approve it. 

Great that you made the withdrawal attempt again, thank you for that, I hope it'll work this time, but if not we'll have the Payments Department investigate it with the provider and find a solution :)

/Jeppe

[RayL]

Hi @davidovv!
I've double checked your transaction today and I can confirm that it left Unibet's systems.
However, following up on it there is a strong chance that it will be rejected by your bank because the transfer is an International payment and it seems that they don't accept it unless it goes through a Bank Transfer!
I would happily assist you in the bank transfer process, all I need is a bank statement on your name, showing all banking details like:

• Account number.
• Your full name.
• In the case that it's on a A4 format paper and you capture it with your mobile, all 4 corners of the document (We accept a PDF downloaded from your netbanking application as well)
• Any transactions not related to Unibet can be covered or edited.

Let me know when you've sent the bank statement to customer service and I will take care of the rest ASAP!

Thank you for your patience!

/Ray

[davidovv]

@RayL In my last post there was a word bolded "because" and this is the first time i see some progress, i see that because. It is a shame that i had to go to comunity to get it. Also the transaction from monday was silently reversed without any email notification about that event, at least this time it was reversed before i asked what is going on, so everyone who was betting on 1.25 won :).  You say that transaction was refused by my bank. On jan. 28th i sent phone capture of A4 print of bank statement, it has some kind of internal account number, my name on it and some transactions in the list (if that is what you ask for bank transfer). The second transaction from top shows that i received money from London, and I think that counts as international transfer. On the day i asked for that statement i also asked if there is any limitation on my card receiving money and i was told that there are no limitations (that one transaction looked like evidence enough to me). I will double check with someone in higher position in my bank, higher than clerk i was talking to. I would also like if you could send me specifics for last decilined transaction so that i can go to my bank and ask why was transaction from... on .... declined, since obviously i can receive international payment, maybe there is some other problem, that you can help me solve if you provide me some of the "because" information.

Or..... You and @JeppeL both skipped to comment the part where i say that my skrill account used for both funding and withdrawal, without problems, was removed as option. What i see there is that unibet changed my account status, (could there be a status where you decline all transactions... indefinitly... and then keep asking for documents untill you ask something i can't provide... and then i am to blame because i didn't send the required documents..., but since that event everything is suddently difficult for me. Maybe I am overreactiong or  paranoid, but I am still doubting in good intentions, because unibet was the one who made the change on a working solution without previous notice, and for card withdrawal and i see no obstacle from my bank yet. As i said, i will double check...

[RayL]

@davidovv.
Following up on my request yesterday, I realize that it seems vague and not very informative and I apologize for that, I will try and explain in a way in which might shed some light on what's going on internally and maybe paint a full picture.
It's important to distinguish between the two types of withdrawals and why they are so different, even though that they might seem identical, after all, they do end up in the same bank account but there is a difference in the path that the funds get processed.
A withdrawal made through a VISA, a financial service provider attached to your bank account, has to go through different processing channels in order to get in your bank account than a bank transfer and the rejected payments are usually related to the BIN code (the first 6 letters if you card) not accepting and automatically rejecting transaction coming from gaming companies.
To my knowledge these settings can be changed by your bank via a request to VISA to allow these types of international payments, I am not 100% sure tough, might be worth looking into in regards to future payments.
A bank transfer of funds on the other hand, is a more direct approach to the withdrawal, cutting out the middleman lowering the odds of this to fail!
I realize that this whole process has been a hassle for you, I even understand that it might seem shady, maybe even malicious but the truth is this:
When one method fails, we try a different approach, resulting in the bank statement request leading to us being able to create a manual withdrawal! Now one might ask why isn't it enough if a customer just writes an e-mail with their IBAN , name and SWIFT code, and the reasons are purely security related, without the proof of a bank statement showing that the IBAN is attached to your name, the payments department will just deny the payment untill the ownership of the account is proven.
I wans't able to find a bank statement in your account, what's present there are a couple of screenshots showing the transactions, your name, but no IBAN or SWIFT code.
The statement will be needed unfortunately in order to successfully process your withdrawal manually.

[davidovv]

Hi again.

This communication where i try to find out what is wrong between my bank and some unknown payment provider is kind of exausting. I lost my winnings during that time and this conversation was on hold.

Anyway, i contacted my bank again, and asked if there are any restrictions for my card in receiving money from international betting company unibet.com from Malta. The response was that card has no limitations by the bank, and that i should check if provider denies payments made to gift cards (that is the type of my card i used for deposit)

I still think that unibet should take more action here, because i am not provided with enough information to check this on my own. All i get is that "payment is reversed" and that some 3rd party provider (if bank asks me which one i must say i don't know) didn't complete the transaction, and try again, and again...

@JeppeL, @RayL can someone please check this more on unibet side, when i talk to customer service i only get responses like "we will contact some other department..." I am never talking to someone who has any kind of answer, or responsability.

[JeppeL]

Hi @davidovv, I've forwarded the information about the card being a "gift type" card, though I've never heard that description coming from a bank - it sounds like a pre-paid card though and I've added the information for the Payments team to give feedback on.

Regarding your time with Customer Support: Do you know when abouts you were in touch with them on this matter? The latest contacts I saw, dating back to the time when you were last writing about the issue here on the Community, the contacts seem to be about missing bonus and not withdrawal problems. 

Did you ever send a picture of your bank statement - showing IBAN and name -  as asked by Ray in his latest post about a month ago? I think this was the "more action from our side" that you were looking for as the next step was for us to try and create a manual withdrawal, but I only see the request for it as having been made and closed as we waited for the picture of bank statement. If not provided previously, could you please try and email it to contact@community.com, and then let us know when you want to do a withdrawal?

/Jeppe